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  1. #1
    Active Member johnv50's Avatar
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    Default Anybody used Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-40 A3/B4 Adv Full Synthetic Motor Oil?

    This oil is selling for about $28 for a 5 qt jug. Has anyone tried this oil?

    Thanks, johnv
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2024 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Title clarification
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    Very Active Member BajaRon's Avatar
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    It doesn't say anything about a JASO rating. Unless you can confirm that it is JASO rated MA2, then I wouldn't risk a clutch on it.
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    Anyone using Castrol Actevo 4T 10W/40? It is a blend, and MA/MA2 rated with a motorcycle shown on the front of the container. It is what I'm looking for and the weight specified in the Owner's Manual. Readily available at Walmart. Amazon comments are all good for motorcycle use in Florida heat, think I'm gonna give it a shot since I can't get Rotella T6 in 10/40.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2024 at 06:39 PM.

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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbillone View Post
    Anyone using Castrol Actevo 4T 10W/40? It is a blend, and MA/MA2 rated with a motorcycle shown on the front of the container. It is what I'm looking for and the weight specified in the Owner's Manual. Readily available at Walmart. Amazon comments are all good for motorcycle use in Florida heat, think I'm gonna give it a shot since I can't get Rotella T6 in 10/40.
    Not in the Spyder, but I used it in a past Triumph Tiger 800 XC. I do use 10w40 in my Spyder...
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2024 at 06:40 PM.


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    Very Active Member BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbillone View Post
    Anyone using Castrol Actevo 4T 10W/40? It is a blend, and MA/MA2 rated with a motorcycle shown on the front of the container. It is what I'm looking for and the weight specified in the Owner's Manual. Readily available at Walmart. Amazon comments are all good for motorcycle use in Florida heat, think I'm gonna give it a shot since I can't get Rotella T6 in 10/40.
    Blended oil is a marketing gimmick (in my opinion). It is 90% cheap, regular mineral oil with a meager 10% synthetic. Just go 100% synthetic and get 100% of the good stuff. Also, I believe a 10w 40 is a better viscosity for the Spyder unless you leave it outside in sub-zero temps for long periods. BRP used to make lubricants specific to each vehicle they sold. When they did they recommended 10w/40 for the Spyder. But they consolidated many years ago and now it's pretty much a One Size Fits All scenario from snowmobiles to Spyders. Cost cutting for the manufacturer. But not necessarily best for the vehicle. I know many will say they've been using the blended 5w/40 for X-Miles and had no problem. And I'm sure that's true. But if you want to put a better lubricant into your machine for pretty much the same price, full synthetic 10w/40 is a better way to go.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-16-2024 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)
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    Ron, you talk I listen. Mobil One is all I can find in the full synthetic 10/40, is that what you are using?
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-17-2024 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnv50 View Post
    This oil is selling for about $28 for a 5 qt jug. Has anyone tried this oil?

    Thanks, johnv
    As a start, I would research if 540rat has tested the oil. If he has, how did it compare to other motorcycle oils of the same viscosity?

    https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

    Over the years I have seen other folks mentioning they ran that oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbillone View Post
    Ron, you talk I listen. Mobil One is all I can find in the full synthetic 10/40, is that what you are using?
    I hope you are referring to Mobil 1 10w40 motorcycle oil only. The automotive oil, while good, is great for your Spyders engine, but not the clutch.

    Our Spyder has had Mobil 1 10w40 motorcycle oil in it since after break in. That oil does fine down here in SoFlo during the summer.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 05-17-2024 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)

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    Very Active Member BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbillone View Post
    Ron, you talk I listen. Mobil One is all I can find in the full synthetic 10/40, is that what you are u are using?
    I appreciate the kind words. But I'm just another voice. One more opinion to add to the stack. No one knows it all and there are a good number of smart people on this forum. I'm just glad I can help from time to time.

    In my opinion, Mobil 1 is a good choice. Certainly better than the XPS (or any) blended oil. We use Amsoil because it has consistently tested better in the Spyder than anything else we've tried (or customers have used and tested). But there are other worthy lubricants out there. Mobil 1 being one of these.

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    As a start, I would research if 540rat has tested the oil. If he has, how did it compare to other motorcycle oils of the same viscosity?

    https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

    Over the years I have seen other folks mentioning they ran that oil.
    Interesting reading. But the nastiest engine in the world isn't going to put oil through what our Spyders (and motorcycle engines in general) will. In short, I'm talking transmission. Transmission gears crush oil in a way that engines just don't. Overall, transmissions are much harder on oil than engines. That's why most transmissions run a completely different lubricant. But to save room and weight, motorcycle transmissions are incorporated into and use the same oil as the engine. And this is where a better lubricant really makes a difference.

    It is the transmission which smashes, crushes, and shears your blended oil molecules down, reducing the viscosity from 40 to 20 around the 5,000 mile mark. Then both the engine and transmission have to live with a much thinner oil.

    One of the reasons I prefer a 10/40 is that the wider the separation between these 2 numbers, the less able a lubricant is to stand up to the crushing force of the transmission. It's just an inherent trait of all multi-viscosity lubricants. So, if you don't need a really thin oil at startup (which the Spyder/Ryker do not), then why sacrifice capability for a feature you don't need?

    In the end, it comes down to the fact that it's your bike. Do what you think best.

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    I hope you are referring to Mobil 1 10w40 motorcycle oil only. The automotive oil, while good, is great for your Spyders engine, but not the clutch.

    Our Spyder has had Mobil 1 10w40 motorcycle oil in it since after break in. That oil does fine down here in SoFlo during the summer.
    Yes, whichever oil you end up using. It needs to have a JASO rating of MA2. If it does not, then you run great risk of slipping your clutch. A little bit of this and you're going to need a very expensive repair. Some oils do meet the JASO MA2 rating but the manufacturer has chosen not to spend the money to get the product certified in this category because they are not targeting wet clutch users. But you need to be very careful if you go this route.

    OilJaso.jpg

    One last thing. Some people see threads like this, throw up their hands and say, 'I'm just going to go with what the manufacturer recommends'. While this will get you to the next gas station, it's not rocket science. Just a bit of effort can go a long way in giving you a better product for about the same amount of money.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 05-17-2024 at 09:09 AM.
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    I'm using Castrol Power1 4T full synthetic for my last 2 oil changes. Before that I was using Mobil1 4T motorcycle racing oil, but I found the Castrol on sale at Amazon for less and decided to try it. Bike's performance has been flawless with either oil.


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    Ron, are you using 10/40 Synthetic, if so, what brand?

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    Very Active Member BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerbillone View Post
    Ron, are you using 10/40 Synthetic, if so, what brand?
    We use Amsoil.
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    Hello all, I'm currently using penzoil Euro full synthetic 5w-40. Meets BRP specs and runs/shifts fine. I've picked out the activo for my next change but I'm interested in this jaso spec baja is talking about, going to read up on that thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnv50 View Post
    This oil is selling for about $28 for a 5 qt jug. Has anyone tried this oil?

    Thanks, johnv
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    Active Member Baveux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    It doesn't say anything about a JASO rating. Unless you can confirm that it is JASO rated MA2, then I wouldn't risk a clutch on it.
    But BRP is nowhere asking or making JASO spec mandatory , I'm really curious to know why do you guys keep mentioning that? Nowhere does BRP ask for the mandatory JASO cert. All they want is 4-stroke, 5w40, and SN, now SP supersedes the previous spec... A good old Quaker States 5w40 synth fits that requirement... So why worrying about wet clutch spec when BRP is not even asking precisely for it? It's either JASO M2, or SN; one or the other will do according to BRP... What am I not getting?

    Oil spec.jpg
    Last edited by Baveux; 07-10-2024 at 12:25 AM.
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    But BRP is nowhere asking or making JASO spec mandatory
    With respect, I think the chart in your manual has a typo. The portion you highlighted says "or JASO-MA2", whereas the chart in the manual for my 2017 says "and JASO-MA2". The same engine is involved so there's should be no difference.

    It's well known that JASO-MA is a spec for wet clutches. In my manual's text regarding engine oil there is also specific note to only use oils designed for wet clutches (ie without friction modifiers) and to not use oil additives. Interestingly, the text also says that regular JASO-MA oil is an acceptable alternative to JASO-MA2 oil. From what I read the MA2 grade is designed for engines with CAT converters... but I have no idea what difference that should make.

    oil_1.jpg

    After speaking with an oil company technical guy here in Australia a while back, I think I can explain why your Quaker State 5w-40 Synth & Pennzoil Euro Full Synth 5w-40 hasn't caused any clutch problems yet, even though it doesn't mention JASO-MA on the label.

    Both of those oils mention compliance to ACEA-B4. According to the technical expert "ACEA-B4 is the Euro. Light Duty Diesel oil spec. These oils have higher levels of detergents and dispersants, and this is one of the reasons that they have such good frictional characteristics, which is important for wet clutch operation. In fact, the chemistry used is able to be approved against JASO-MA.". He goes on to say that even though their ACEA-B4 oil should theoretically be able to be certified to JASO-MA, they haven't gone down the path of gaining formal approval from JASO as the cost involved isn't warranted against the expected volume of motorcycle market sales.

    So, maybe the Quaker State & Pennzoil is in the same boat... technically able to be certified to JASO-MA, but the oil companies have decided paying for approval isn't warranted. But please don't just take my word for it. My advice would be to contact a technical expert from your preferred oil supplier & get their sign-off on its use in your Spyder.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2024 at 03:37 AM.
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    Active Member Baveux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMariner View Post
    With respect, I think the chart in your manual has a typo. The portion you highlighted says "or JASO-MA2", whereas the chart in the manual for my 2017 says "and JASO-MA2". The same engine is involved so there's should be no difference.

    It's well known that JASO-MA is a spec for wet clutches. In my manual's text regarding engine oil there is also specific note to only use oils designed for wet clutches (ie without friction modifiers) and to not use oil additives. Interestingly, the text also says that regular JASO-MA oil is an acceptable alternative to JASO-MA2 oil. From what I read the MA2 grade is designed for engines with CAT converters... but I have no idea what difference that should make.

    oil_1.jpg

    After speaking with an oil company technical guy here in Australia a while back, I think I can explain why your Quaker State 5w-40 Synth & Pennzoil Euro Full Synth 5w-40 hasn't caused any clutch problems yet, even though it doesn't mention JASO-MA on the label.

    Both of those oils mention compliance to ACEA-B4. According to the technical expert "ACEA-B4 is the Euro. Light Duty Diesel oil spec. These oils have higher levels of detergents and dispersants, and this is one of the reasons that they have such good frictional characteristics, which is important for wet clutch operation. In fact, the chemistry used is able to be approved against JASO-MA.". He goes on to say that even though their ACEA-B4 oil should theoretically be able to be certified to JASO-MA, they haven't gone down the path of gaining formal approval from JASO as the cost involved isn't warranted against the expected volume of motorcycle market sales.

    So, maybe the Quaker State & Pennzoil is in the same boat... technically able to be certified to JASO-MA, but the oil companies have decided paying for approval isn't warranted. But please don't just take my word for it. My advice would be to contact a technical expert from your preferred oil supplier & get their sign-off on its use in your Spyder.

    Hope this helps!
    Hummm.... Now I am really confused .... and BTW that happened before :-) Here is what I have here in Canada. French Owner's manual; English Owner's manual; and the Service manual:

    Huile francais.jpg Oil english .jpg Oil spec.jpg

    That would be lots of typos but I fully understand your point, I'll play safe, and I'll use an oil with the JASO spec; but that does bother me. If we really need to use JASO, then BRP should be held responsible for any damaged caused by the oil in the transmission. I've looked at the Rotella T6 and the JASO MA spec is no longer present on their bottle... How to make simple thing complicated!! Thanks for your post!

    I wrote to BRP, waiting for their position on this mess...
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2024 at 07:11 AM.
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    It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say. Please post their reply if/when you get one.
    Regards,

    Phil.

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    Active Member Baveux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMariner View Post
    It'll be interesting to hear what they have to say. Please post their reply if/when you get one.
    I will, it's a promise!
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    Very Active Member BajaRon's Avatar
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    The 1330 definitely is less oil sensitive than the 998. However, the V-Twin is very particular. If you don't run a verified MA-2 JASO lubricant in that motor, you will certainly regret it. But how forgiving is the 1330? Well, the only way to know is the hard way. The clutch can't slip much and still be salvageable. Most don't notice it until it's too late. And a clutch replacement is quite expensive.

    In short, experiment at your own risk. With so many good options out there, not sure it's worth it. But if you do, please let us know how it goes.
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    Active Member Baveux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    The 1330 definitely is less oil sensitive than the 998. However, the V-Twin is very particular. If you don't run a verified MA-2 JASO lubricant in that motor, you will certainly regret it. But how forgiving is the 1330? Well, the only way to know is the hard way. The clutch can't slip much and still be salvageable. Most don't notice it until it's too late. And a clutch replacement is quite expensive.

    In short, experiment at your own risk. With so many good options out there, not sure it's worth it. But if you do, please let us know how it goes.
    Oh, rest assured that I will not play guinea pig. I'm just questioning what's coming from the horse's mouth and what I can read from the threads here.

    BRP are misleading their customers, and not just by a little bit, if they really missed the JASO MA requirement in 3 of their books, it's borderline dishonest!

    My go-to oil will probably be Amsoil 10w40 metric, since JASO and SN are mentioned in their documents. The price is about the same as XPS, but it will be, I'm sure, of better quality!

    So, I'm still waiting for Can Am to respond to my request, but I won't hold my breath.

    I continue to believe that $16 - $20 for a quart of oil + $60.00 for a filter and a bunch of washers is totally insane (Canadian $$)... but hey, you wanna play, you gotta pay!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-10-2024 at 09:00 PM.
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    Search through 540Rat's oil reviews for Castrol. After reading what he says about the decline of Castrol's performance since being purchased by another company, I'm switching back to Mobile 1 4T.


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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baveux View Post
    Oh, rest assured that I will not play guinea pig. I'm just questioning what's coming from the horse's mouth and what I can read from the threads here.

    BRP are misleading their customers, and not just by a little bit, if they really missed the JASO MA requirement in 3 of their books, it's borderline dishonest!

    My go-to oil will probably be Amsoil 10w40 metric, since JASO and SN are mentioned in their documents. The price is about the same as XPS, but it will be, I'm sure, of better quality!

    So, I'm still waiting for Can Am to respond to my request, but I won't hold my breath.

    I continue to believe that $16 - $20 for a quart of oil + $60.00 for a filter and a bunch of washers is totally insane (Canadian $$)... but hey, you wanna play, you gotta pay!
    Amsoil now has a metric 5w40 oil available.
    https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-5w-4...cycle-oil-mmf/


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