Will Using 87 Octane impact performance?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, I don't disagree with you at all. But I doubt if my one example of "less than a full tank" of 87 provides much support for your position.

Well I'm not really looking for support ..... the Key word here is, IMHO .. NOTICEABLE ......;.. I don't like " seat of the pants " performance whether we're talking about Tires or Gas .... I'm a " show me the numbers " kind of guy ..... that's all ... nothing more - nothing less ....I respect everyone's right to have an opinion, and some I agree with and some I don't...... Mike

[old Timer]

The combustion chamber design, the air/fuel flow design and flame front propagation are different on the two Spyder engines. The more current design of the later model 3 cylinder engines will allow for a lower octane rating under the same running conditions. An occasional good West Texas Tune up will go a long way to keep your steed in good running conditions.

[BajaRon]

The combustion chamber design, the air/fuel flow design and flame front propagation are different on the two Spyder engines. The more current design of the later model 3 cylinder engines will allow for a lower octane rating under the same running conditions. An occasional good West Texas Tune up will go a long way to keep your steed in good running conditions.

What is a 'West Texas Tune-Up'? And does it include running over a few armadillos? Seems to be a popular pastime in those parts.

[old Timer]

Have to watch those armadillos you know.......................

A West Texas tune up is running your vehicle up to the red line thru the gears, ie full throttle thru the gears, thru the first four in any event. Helps to keep things cleaned out. Combustion chamber, rings, valves, fuel system and exhaust. Just make sure you, no cops, etc. Heck, it's also a lota fun.

Can't really do it in the first two gears because because my rear tire wants to brake loose, but 3rd 4th and 5th work great.

[ARtraveler]

Have to watch those armadillos you know.......................

A West Texas tune up is running your vehicle up to the red line thru the gears, ie full throttle thru the gears, thru the first four in any event. Helps to keep things cleaned out. Combustion chamber, rings, valves, fuel system and exhaust. Just make sure you, no cops, etc. Heck, it's also a lota fun.

Can't really do it in the first two gears because because my rear tire wants to brake loose, but 3rd 4th and 5th work great.

That is what I thought it would be.

[Bangorbob]

Heck, I've done that forever but didn't know it was called West Texas tune. I'm from Michigan originally and just called it blowing out the carbon and hoping not to break Dad's car doing it.

[Dasmoetorhead]

After a long ride through the mountains today, I got pretty low on gas, so I pulled into the gas station and the only 100% gas they had was 90 Octane "horror of horrors" LOL! I actually made it home before I had a piston come through the case from "Pinging" Lol

[ARtraveler]

After a long ride through the mountains today, I got pretty low on gas, so I pulled into the gas station and the only 100% gas they had was 90 Octane "horror of horrors" LOL! I actually made it home before I had a piston come through the case from "Pinging" Lol

Nice try.

[2dogs]

After a long ride through the mountains today, I got pretty low on gas, so I pulled into the gas station and the only 100% gas they had was 90 Octane "horror of horrors" LOL! I actually made it home before I had a piston come through the case from "Pinging" Lol

I've been told it's the pre-detonation you don't hear that's most destructive. Kind of like the bullet you don't hear.

[Peacekeeper6]

All
Doing a 600 mile, many overnights, trip with our new (to us) 2013 Spyder ST/S the first of April. Wondering if using 87 Octane gas vs. 91 will change the performance during this trip. I think it was recommended either in owner manual or I picked up on the web to use 91. It will help on the money side a bit. Also this bike’s fuel gauge is off some. When it shows a half tank I put more than 3 gallons in to top off. Has anyone run into this with their gauge?

I had to use cheap, low-octane fuel in an emergency.

Performance was neglible; however, if I was riding two-up or hauling a trailer or riding up steep grades, it might make more of a difference. <shrugs>

[2dogs]

I had to use cheap, low-octane fuel in an emergency.

Performance was neglible; however, if I was riding two-up or hauling a trailer or riding up steep grades, it might make more of a difference. <shrugs>

I carry two small bottles of octane boost should I get caught in a situation like that.

[Snoking1127]

I've never said that running premium fuel was 'Necessary'. I agree with all those who say that you can run low octane fuel without any issues. Though the ethanol component can be problematic.

However, from the testing I've done, I have proven to myself that performance and fuel mileage is improved by running premium fuel (whether ethanol or non-ethanol). This from a 5,000 mile + test on my 998. Granted, it was summer and warm weather. Most of it was not high altitude. But it was quite conclusive. I simply report my findings. Others say they haven't noticed any difference. I can't say I noticed any seat of the pants difference either. It is the carefully kept data over the span of 28 tanks of fuel on that trip I am referencing with my comments.

As far as service. We don't see anything we do at the shop as 'Special'. We ride. You ride. We get it. We see customers as friends. And try to send bikes out as if they were our own. Actually, we don't take as good a care of ours as we do customer's. We just don't have the time anymore! But the kind words are greatly appreciated. We enjoy what we do.

The question I would ask is, did the increase mileage off-set the higher price of the high-octane gas? I run 87 in just about everything that hits the highway. Chain saw, pressure washer, and gas golf cart get 100% gas from the local Co Op in Washington. Arizona does not have 100% gas except very expensive racing fuel.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The question I would ask is, did the increase mileage off-set the higher price of the high-octane gas? I run 87 in just about everything that hits the highway. Chain saw, pressure washer, and gas golf cart get 100% gas from the local Co Op in Washington. Arizona does not have 100% gas except very expensive racing fuel.

Well, it depends what the price difference is between 87 and 91 oct, and how much you gain using 91 oct. .... in Vermont it's about .70 cents higher for 91 (both grades have Ethyl) ... Math is not my forte', maybe someone here can figure it out using Ron's MPG's ...... Mike

[BajaRon]

The question I would ask is, did the increase mileage off-set the higher price of the high-octane gas? I run 87 in just about everything that hits the highway. Chain saw, pressure washer, and gas golf cart get 100% gas from the local Co Op in Washington. Arizona does not have 100% gas except very expensive racing fuel.

No, I averaged a little better than 10% with premium. That won't offset the higher price. If cost is primary, then regular is your choice.

[Big F]

I've had 5 Spyders over the years and tested each one with the 87 vs 91 octane and there was absolutely no difference in performance or MPG, etc. on all of them!
My present 2023 RT Limited runs like a dream on 87 octane.
BIG F

[2dogs]

No, I averaged a little better than 10% with premium. That won't offset the higher price. If cost is primary, then regular is your choice.

Ron, here's a fact, you'll never convince the naysayers that you can get more MPG out of 91 than 87. Obviously, we know how to do it and they don't. It's not rocket science, it's just all in the wrist. And, it doesn't stop with just MPG, it includes tires, brakes, and all the wearables. Now this may be a stretch, but I would include "safety" as well. I'd also go so far as to say that I think spyder riders are generally the most cautious, experienced and safest operators on the pavement. Age and experience may factor greatly into that.

[troop]

It has always been my experience that I get approx. 5-10% better mpg using non ethanol fuel versus 10% ethanol. 100% gas has more energy than corn gas. That said, the difference is way offset by pump cost. In my area, 100% gas (91 oct) is approx. .75 more/gallon.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I just took another look at my gas numbers from June 1 to September 31 for both 2016 and 2017. Both summers were similar driving habits and conditions. In 2016 I rode 8171 miles and used 275.81 gallons of 91 octane. In 2017 I rode 8155 miles and used 274.92 gallons of 87 octane. So, for 2016 I had 29.625 MPG on 91 and for 2017 I had 29.663 MPG on 87. 87 octane gave me 0.0375 better MPG! That was a whopping 0.13% improvement! Virtually all of the gas was ethanol based.

Ron's numbers are for a 998 engine and mine for a 1330 engine. I think engine design is a factor in why Ron, and other 998 owners, have experienced better mileage with 91 octane.

[BajaRon]

It has always been my experience that I get approx. 5-10% better mpg using non ethanol fuel versus 10% ethanol. 100% gas has more energy than corn gas. That said, the difference is way offset by pump cost. In my area, 100% gas (91 oct) is approx. .75 more/gallon.

A big part of the reason that ethanol fuel is less expensive at the pump is that it is subsidized by you and I. (same source, different pocket). No such subsidy for straight gas. It is actually cheaper to make gasoline than it is to make ethanol. It also takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than it does to make a gallon of gasoline. And guess what they use to make the ethanol? You guessed it, fossil fuels!

It's a crazy world...

[Peter Aawen]

.....

Ron's numbers are for a 998 engine and mine for a 1330 engine. I think engine design is a factor in why Ron, and other 998 owners, have experienced better mileage with 91 octane.

There is that!


The 998 engines are designed and tuned as high revving high performance engines with a fairly tight (& high) power band in a wide rev range, peaking well up into the 8000's; while the 1330 engines are designed and tuned as slower revving high torque engines with a pretty wide & flattish torque band in a shorter rev range, peaking in the 5,000's.... I can't recall if there's any difference between the two in compression ratio as well, and I'm not anywhere near a ready source of that info, but I suspect there'll be some difference... With any luck, someone here will be able to chime in & tell us all what the compression ratios are and if there's any significant difference?!

Still, given the above it's not all that surprising that the 998 engine's notice the difference in octane rating more than the 1330's - high revving high performance engines and their 'higher/tighter' state of tune generally means that they are more critically reactive to any changes in the things that let them work at their best; while slower revving 'lazier' engines tend to run a less critical/more forgiving state of tune and so are far more tolerant of any variations in any/all of the variables like octane rating, altitude, fuel temperature, ambient temperature etc...

Just Sayin'

[Snoking1127]

I just took another look at my gas numbers from June 1 to September 31 for both 2016 and 2017. Both summers were similar driving habits and conditions. In 2016 I rode 8171 miles and used 275.81 gallons of 91 octane. In 2017 I rode 8155 miles and used 274.92 gallons of 87 octane. So, for 2016 I had 29.625 MPG on 91 and for 2017 I had 29.663 MPG on 87. 87 octane gave me 0.0375 better MPG! That was a whopping 0.13% improvement! Virtually all of the gas was ethanol based.

Ron's numbers are for a 998 engine and mine for a 1330 engine. I think engine design is a factor in why Ron, and other 998 owners, have experienced better mileage with 91 octane.

??? I average 34 MPG +/- tenths regularly with 87 octane. And I like jacket rabbit starts and going vroom vroom, and when not doing that I run on CC.

[mecsw500]

It has always been my experience that I get approx. 5-10% better mpg using non ethanol fuel versus 10% ethanol. 100% gas has more energy than corn gas. That said, the difference is way offset by pump cost. In my area, 100% gas (91 oct) is approx. .75 more/gallon.

From what I can remember the Ethanol has about 30% less energy than gasoline. So for 10% Ethanol you are going to lose about 30% of the energy for that 10%. So for a gallon of gas you are going to only have about 97% of the energy you would have on 100% gas versus the 10% Ethanol blend.

So, in reality, you might just notice the difference if you were a drag racer, but on the street I certainly cannot tell the difference.

The difference I do notice is the 15% less power I get for living at 5,000 feet.

[HSCRandy]

My Spyder gets a little bit better MPG on higher octane fuels. This justifies paying more pennies per gallon. I've been riding for over 50 years and my opinion is that performance and acceleration are better with higher octane fuel.

[Mikey]

My Spyder gets a little bit better MPG on higher octane fuels. This justifies paying more pennies per gallon. I've been riding for over 50 years and my opinion is that performance and acceleration are better with higher octane fuel.

Don't worry it happens to the best of us! replying to old post sometimes enlightens us!! Always check the posting date in the top left corner of the post.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My Spyder gets a little bit better MPG on higher octane fuels. This justifies paying more pennies per gallon. I've been riding for over 50 years and my opinion is that performance and acceleration are better with higher octane fuel.

"pennies per gallon" .... in Vt. it's about 70 pennies more for 91.... 40 more for 89 .... As for improved performance/acceleration .....can you give me a % for that improvement or actual Dyno numbers? .....Mike