Rykers Require 87 Octane - Not 92!

[BajaRon]

I have to disagree. Thats a marketing piece, not a recommendation. The operators manual says to use 87 octane.

That is not just a marketing piece. The marketing people go to the engineers when they are making a spec. sheet. That page is giving just the optimum fuel octane recommendation without the additional information contained in the owner's manual which also lists minimum octane requirements.

I don't mean to be argumentative. However, I am going to post just once more in the hope that others are looking for a final, fact based answer to this discussion.

When you say that 'The operators manual says to use 87 octane', (found on page 37 as your original post accurately references). Admittedly, the statement could have been better worded to make their intention more clear. But the meaning here is NOT that you SHOULD use 87 octane fuel. Instead, it is giving 87 octane fuel as the lower limit which MAY safely be used in the Ryker. Put another way. You should NOT use fuel with an octane rating below 87.

The manual then goes on to clearly indicate 91 as the optimal fuel octane for which this engine was designed to operate most efficiently. Be careful not to read the heading 'Recommended Fuel' into the following paragraph. It is simply designating that the following information gives both the minimum and optimal fuel parameters. The owner can then make a decision as to which way they want to go with their Ryker.

Here is the entire text of what is given on Page 37 of the BRP, Can-Am Ryker owner's manual

Recommended Fuel

Use regular unleaded gasoline with a
minimum AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane
rating of 87, or an RON octane rating of
92.

For optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI
(RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 91, or
an RON octane rating of 95.


I think the manufacturer assumes most will want to operate their vehicle with optimal recommendations. Yet they understand that some may want to go with minimum requirements or not have higher octane fuels available to them. For these owners, BRP wisely gave a lower parameter (87 octane) which should not be exceeded.

 

[KyBill]

I agree that the operators manual could be worded better. My other bikes manual clearly states to use premium gas rated 93.

I would bet the engineers gave accurate information to marketing and marketing either didn’t understand it or added spin they thought would sell. Marketing info also indicates a rider capacity of 1 yet Can Am sells a two up spring for the 900 Rally and has an interlock to prevent Rally mode if passenger foot pegs are deployed....... wires get crossed in translation between departments all the time.

For myself, I use premium in all my bikes and my zero turn, but not my Toyota mini van. I have lots of confidence in the Toyota, all the others have yet to prove themselves.

 

[bcraig]

I have to disagree. Thats a marketing piece, not a recommendation. The operators manual says to use 87 octane.

This is page 142 from the manual. Not the recommended octane rating.

 

[Hypurone]

Does it really? What is the knock sensor Part number?

420664031 which is for my Spyder and a few others (2016 F3 2017 F3 2018 F3 S SM6 SE6 2018 F3 SE6 2018 F3 SE6 2018 F3 T SE6 2015 ) your part number may vary and you can always look it up online at places like CheapCycle Parts etc. They actually call it a "noise sensor".... That enough info for ya?

 

[Aufgeblassen47]

The absolute bottom line basic truism, is if your engine does NOT ping, add'l anti-ping chemical does absolutely and positively NOTHING (at all).

The most prudent thing to do, is run your tank really low, then fill up with 87. If no pinging whatsoever, you are ALREADY experiencing "optimal performance". If significant pinging, try mid grade gas. The most likely place for pinging in any engine is at sea level. Other altitudes, not so much.

 

[BajaRon]

The absolute bottom line basic truism, is if your engine does NOT ping, add'l anti-ping chemical does absolutely and positively NOTHING (at all).

The most prudent thing to do, is run your tank really low, then fill up with 87. If no pinging whatsoever, you are ALREADY experiencing "optimal performance". If significant pinging, try mid grade gas. The most likely place for pinging in any engine is at sea level. Other altitudes, not so much.

As mentioned before. The ECU is designed to prevent any 'Ping'. This is accomplished by retarding ignition timing which reduces power and efficiency. The ECU does this seamlessly and quite subtly. You are not going to notice some sudden or drastic loss of power. Seat of the pants, you will probably never notice.

So, not only is listening for 'Ping' a waste of time on the Ryker or the Spyder for that matter. If you could actually hear 'Pinging' there is a very good chance that you are already doing damage to your engine. The negative effects of too low octane begin long before you can hear anything. It may well be that the ECU cannot compensate for octane lower than 87, thus the recommended lower limit given by BRP.

I totally support your use of whatever octane fuel you choose to put into you Ryker. Not a problem at all. Nor am I saying it will hurt anything or even that it is a bad idea. I do, however, think it important that everyone know the consequences of doing so. To recommend a less than optimal octane to others as 'Optimal', supported by faulty information is not doing anyone a favor.

A lot of people read these posts looking for good, reliable information. Those of us who post 'Recommendations' have an obligation to be accurate and factual.

This is page 142 from the manual. Not the recommended octane rating.

View attachment 172003

Another excellent source of octane information. This one is actually clearer than the one sighted on page 37. It not only clarifies the page 37 info. But agrees with it as well. Great find and very helpful!

 

[KyBill]

This is page 142 from the manual. Not the recommended octane rating.

View attachment 172003

You are right, somehow I missed that.

 

[djdilliodon]

Anyone know the compression ratio on the 600 and 900?

 

[Zoot]

OK, besides the octane issue (or non-issue), it used to be that Premium gas had a better additive package (detergents, etc.) than Regular gas.
At least, that was the case a couple of decades ago when I worked in an oil refinery.

 

[CENTAUR]

Compression ratio on Ryker is 11:1. Doesn't that call for 91oct even though book sez 87?

 

[Aufgeblassen47]

Compression ratio on Ryker is 11:1. Doesn't that call for 91oct even though book sez 87?

Not necessarily! Compression is only one leg of a 3-legged stool. The other two legs are spark and fuel injection timing. In the bad ole days of carburetors, premium was needed much more often, as the was no such thing as injection timing.

A possible 4th leg could be valve timing, for engines with VVT.

 

[BajaRon]

Stand corrected. Since we can no longer delete a post, error pulled.

 

[KC61]

Additives and detergents in gasoline are solely up to each company and have nothing to do with premium or regular. Top tier gas has specific requirements so buy that and you will be good. Premium for me though.

 

[srx660]

I think its funny that my 18 year old honda lawn mower was always hard starting and has some combustion misses while running on the alcohol/gas mix gasoline. Then i heard that if you mixed some water into the gasoline in a liter bottle, then shook it up and let it set until the gas became clear, the water would combine with the alcohol and separate from the gas. Then you pour the gas out and get rid of the water( i use most of the water /alcohol mix to clean parts with so it usually evaps off my concrete driveway). I figured why not try it and Guess what! The honda now starts on the first pull every time now, the missing is gone when running, and the mower doesn't act any different in the power(seat of the pants judgement). I might try the same experiment with my Ryker, but the only problem i see is the Ryker is designed to run the alcohol/gas blend gasoline. So i am hesitating on this for now. However I do like how the lawn mower runs now.

 

[BajaRon]

I run my Ryker on straight gasoline. Runs great. Starts great too. Though I'd say it will do the same thing on ethanol.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Now, with fuel injection, the fuel does not enter the picture until just before the spark plug fires.

I don't think that is correct. The EFI injectors inject the fuel into the intake ports of the cylinder head, which means the fuel enters the combustion chamber along with the air. If the fuel was injected just before the spark plug fires that would mean the fuel would have to be injected directly into the combustion chamber, like a diesel engine. Look at the Fuel System section of the EFI chapter of the service manual (2014 RTS in my case).

I think one of the main reasons predetonation isn't the problem it used to be is that combustion chambers have been designed to maximize air/fuel mixing, plus there are probably no sharp corners or other small bits of metal that can get hot enough to retain heat and cause the next air/fuel charge to ignite prematurely.

 

[Aufgeblassen47]

I don't think that is correct. The EFI injectors inject the fuel into the intake ports of the cylinder head, which means the fuel enters the combustion chamber along with the air. If the fuel was injected just before the spark plug fires that would mean the fuel would have to be injected directly into the combustion chamber, like a diesel engine. Look at the Fuel System section of the EFI chapter of the service manual (2014 RTS in my case).

I think one of the main reasons predetonation isn't the problem it used to be is that combustion chambers have been designed to maximize air/fuel mixing, plus there are probably no sharp corners or other small bits of metal that can get hot enough to retain heat and cause the next air/fuel charge to ignite prematurely.

WHATEVER the reason, NO pre-ignition means your octane level is just fine and a higher number does NOTHING!

I've been a diesel owner since 1984, and owned many makes & models. Dieselheads are the exact same way about CETANE, they think a higher number (than actually needed) makes it run better, smoother, faster. Totally false. The "placebo effect" affects those guys too. A minimum cetane number is needed to START a diesel engine. If your engine starts right up, you have adequate cetane - period. Adding a "cetane booster" to your fuel does ZERO if it already starts w/o adding one.

 

[BajaRon]

I don't think that is correct. The EFI injectors inject the fuel into the intake ports of the cylinder head, which means the fuel enters the combustion chamber along with the air. If the fuel was injected just before the spark plug fires that would mean the fuel would have to be injected directly into the combustion chamber, like a diesel engine. Look at the Fuel System section of the EFI chapter of the service manual (2014 RTS in my case).

I think one of the main reasons predetonation isn't the problem it used to be is that combustion chambers have been designed to maximize air/fuel mixing, plus there are probably no sharp corners or other small bits of metal that can get hot enough to retain heat and cause the next air/fuel charge to ignite prematurely.

I stand corrected. You are correct. We do not have direct fuel injection. My error. Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[coinoperatedboi]

It goes back to Minimum Requirements vs Optimal Options. Yes, you can run ethanol fuel with an octane rating as low as 87 in the Ryker. The ECU is designed to compensate for the less than optimal octane component. But if you want optimal performance you will need to use Premium Octane fuel. And, knowing the attributes of both fuel types. Using non-ethanol fuel will give you the best results. It's simply a matter of physics. You just can't change physical realities with opinions.

However, the next potential fly in the ointment and legitimate question is, how much difference will using optimal fuel make over using the minimum requirement fuel? This is where the factual debate lies.

So what about 87 e-free vs typical 93? I've typically tried to use the e-free since I have it available in my area.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So what about 87 e-free vs typical 93? I've typically tried to use the e-free since I have it available in my area.

:gaah: ...DO NOT - repeat - DO NOT ...put that in your Spyder ….. or any other gas engine that isn't specifically designed to use it ….. Mike hyea: