yet another oil question

[teadave]

today while buying oil for my upcoming oil changes, the counter person informed me that i should not put the blend in after i had used the full synthetic. i run the full synthetic in the fall/spring, and change to the blend for the summer months.
he tried to tell me that BRP won't warranty engine failure if you do this.(not that i have a warranty anyway)
is this published somewhere?
am i doing the right thing?

 

[Bad Dog6]

Synthetics, Blends and warranty's

First of all you can switch between Blends, petroleum and synthetic without doing any harm. If the Oil is an API approved oil and meets the spec in your owners manuel, they can not void your warranty PERIOD. If they base the warranty on the use of a specific oil they have to provide it for free. Even if you use an oil that does not meet the spec, they still have to prove the oil caused the failure. Warranty issues are cause and effect.

For an oil to carry an API specification, it has to meet the same standards i.e. viscosity, seal conditioners etc. wether it is petroleum, a blend or synthetic. All of the warranty issues are covered in the Magnusen Moss Act which is a consumer protection act covering after market parts, fluids etc. Google it.

The bigger question is Why would you want to use a Synthetic in the winter and blend in the summer? Any synthetic is better than petroleum or petroleum blends. A good Synthetic such as AMSOIL (which is the one I am most familiar with) Pours like a beer at - 75 deg F and doesn't become volatile until around 600 Deg F. Extremely wide temperature range. Why not just run a quality synthetic year round? Hope this helps.

 

[boborgera]

today while buying oil for my upcoming oil changes, the counter person informed me that i should not put the blend in after i had used the full synthetic. i run the full synthetic in the fall/spring, and change to the blend for the summer months.
he tried to tell me that BRP won't warranty engine failure if you do this.(not that i have a warranty anyway)
is this published somewhere?
am i doing the right thing?

Actually BRP went the other way ,The first Spyders were FULL Synthetic, Then they changed to a blend.
Either way don't worry they'll both be OK to use.:thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

today while buying oil for my upcoming oil changes, the counter person informed me that i should not put the blend in after i had used the full synthetic. i run the full synthetic in the fall/spring, and change to the blend for the summer months.
he tried to tell me that BRP won't warranty engine failure if you do this.(not that i have a warranty anyway)
is this published somewhere?
am i doing the right thing?

The technical term for this is BULL PUCKY!

First, the BRP Blended Oil is 10w-40 Castrol. You don't need 5w oil unless you're starting your Spyder in VERY Cold conditions (Think Snowmobile left outside all night in Zero degree weather).

Second, BRP Full Synthetic is 5w-40 Castrol. Again, even in the winter, unless you're starting your Spyder in VERY Cold conditions, you still don't need the 5w. You can ride 10w-40 oil in sub zero weather without problems. It is only a cold engine startup in that weather that needs the 5w portion of the viscosity index. However, synthetic oil will give you better protection than regular oil or a blend.

So, you're going from better protection with the synthetic to less protection with the blended. But other than that, there is no problem at all. Blended simply means some regular oil (usually 70%) and some synthetic oil (usually 30%). So it isn't like the two oils don't get along.

Though it could be argued that you're not getting the best possible protection, you have absolutely NO ISSUES doing it this way, warranty or otherwise.

 

[NancysToy]

You have gotten some solid advice here, unlike at your dealership. Dealers like that give me a rash! What a crock, just to sell you the more expensive oil. I hope you are in a position to do business with another dealer from now on. The cash register is the best way to teach these yahoos a lesson.

 

[BajaRon]

You have gotten some solid advice here, unlike at your dealership. Dealers like that give me a rash! what a crock, just to sell you the more expensive oil. I hope you are in a position to do business with another dealer from now on. The cash register is the best way to teach these yahoos a lesson.

Don't hold back Scotty! Tell us what you REALLY think! :roflblack:

 

[ulflyer]

Chances are, it was just the opinion of that particular counter person who thought he knew what he was talking about; some of them are highly opinionated with little to back it up. Can't believe any Dealer owner or manager doesn't know better and would sanction such dumb stuff.

Next time you're at the dealer, ask to speak to the manager, then ask his advice, just to see what he says.

Good advice above; pick any good brand motorcycle oil or Rotella diesel 5-40 synthetic, avail at Walmart, which is widely used and liked by cyclists with wet clutches. I may switch to it when I use up my existing stock of Amsoil.

 

[NancysToy]

Chances are, it was just the opinion of that particular counter person who thought he knew what he was talking about; some of them are highly opinionated with little to back it up. Can't believe any Dealer owner or manager doesn't know better and would sanction such dumb stuff.

Next time you're at the dealer, ask to speak to the manager, then ask his advice, just to see what he says.

Good advice above; pick any good brand motorcycle oil or Rotella diesel 5-40 synthetic, avail at Walmart, which is widely used and liked by cyclists with wet clutches. I may switch to it when I use up my existing stock of Amsoil.

Sorry, the new Rotella-T, like the new Mobil1, carries the API-SM designation on the label. This designation is specifically prohibited by the BRP specification. Use of these oils is strictly at your own risk!

 

[SpyderFun]

First of all you can switch between Blends, petroleum and synthetic without doing any harm....

Not too sure if I would agree with this. :lecturef_smilie:

Granted they may have the same "rating & performance spec" but switching between petro based and synth based may be asking for issues down the road. It also invites "mixing of oils" which is NEVER a good idea unless in an emergency.

My advice is stick to synth due to its superior quality and make deciding on which blend to use as a non-existent issue. :thumbup:

 

[ulflyer]

Scotty, once again you're "right on" re Rotella T6. I knew it was Jaso/MA rated and assumed since lots of wet clutch cyclists use and like it that it would also be suitable for ours as well. Obviously not so I'll stick with Amsoil.

As an aside, what with our oil changes called for at 3K miles, which is a very short period, wonder why an appropriately rated dino oil couldn't be used? Even BRP approves their blend of Dino/Syn which I've read is probably 70% Dino.

 

[NancysToy]

Scotty, once again you're "right on" re Rotella T6. I knew it was Jaso/MA rated and assumed since lots of wet clutch cyclists use and like it that it would also be suitable for ours as well. Obviously not so I'll stick with Amsoil.

As an aside, what with our oil changes called for at 3K miles, which is a very short period, wonder why an appropriately rated dino oil couldn't be used? Even BRP approves their blend of Dino/Syn which I've read is probably 70% Dino.

Conflicting label ratings is something that both irritates and confuses me. According to the protocols, no oil should be able to carry both the JASO-M rating and the API-SM. It makes me suspect the manufacturers' labelling criteria or their testing. Lamont had trouble with the new Rotella-T, I'd avoid that for sure. There have been conflicting reports on the new Mobil1. I personally would risk neither.

The use of dino oils again runs up against the BRP specification of a full synthetic or synthetic blend motorcycle oil. I suspect it could be used, but do you really want to take the chance? Saving $20 an oil change on a $25,000 machine seems like false economy to me. JMHO

 

[Sarge707]

I switched from Mobil 1 4T Jaso "MA" when they changed the API to M and now use Castrol RS 4T which has a Jaso rating of "MA 2"!

 

[BajaRon]

Not too sure if I would agree with this. :lecturef_smilie:

Granted they may have the same "rating & performance spec" but switching between petro based and synth based may be asking for issues down the road. It also invites "mixing of oils" which is NEVER a good idea unless in an emergency.

My advice is stick to synth due to its superior quality and make deciding on which blend to use as a non-existent issue. :thumbup:

What issues? Blended oils are exactly what you are recommending against. Blended is simply a marketing term designed to convince the buyer that mixing petro based and synthetic oils together in one bottle is a good idea. What difference does it make if you mix them in the bottle or if they mix inside the engine?

Many years ago there was a wide difference between oils and it was possible (though not likely) that mixing one with another could possibly case an issue. But it was more a matter of marketing and customer ignorance that the manufacturer's used to build consumer loyalty to their brand than an attempt to actually educate anyone.

With today's rating standards things have really come to a more level playing field. Still, customer ignorance is wide spread and everyone from manufacturer's to the dealerships manipulate the facts to suit their sales.

First, the 'Synthetic' oils that Castrol (which is what BRP uses) are not really synthetic. They are chemically altered petro based oil. That is why Amsoil and similar products are much superior to the BRP 'Full Synthetic'. Amsoil uses a completely different, very stable base oil and engineers it on the molecular level (an expensive process). Castrol type 'Synthetics' use chemical additives that break down (a much less expensive and less stable process). They are not true synthetic oil but most consumers don't know the difference. But that is another story altogether.

Even Amsoil says that you can mix their product with other, like rated products. They don't recommend it because it degrades performance (which is exactly what 'Blended' oils do). But it won't cause any damaging reaction.

In my experience there may be more misinformation in the area of lubricants than with any other subject.

 

[BajaRon]

I switched from Mobil 1 4T Jaso "MA" when they changed the API to M and now use Castrol RS 4T which has a Jaso rating of "MA 2"!

There are 4 wet clutch friction ratings. MB, MA, MA1 & MA2. The MB rated oil gives the least amount of friction at the clutch (most chance for slippage) and the MA2 rating will give the most friction at the clutch (least chance of slippage) with the others falling in-between.

Of course there is much more to consider than just clutch slippage. But if your clutch is slipping it really doesn't matter how well the oil is performing in other areas.

 

[Tonga]

Blends

Lets get one thing strait, a blends means what? They or should I say BRP/ Castrol can put 10% Synthetic oil with 90% mineral oil and call it a blend so unless it says Semi (half&half) synthetic then who knows how much synthetic you are getting in a blended bottle of oil. I will use Full Synthetic in my RT.

 

[BajaRon]

Lets get one thing strait, a blends means what? They or should I say BRP/ Castrol can put 10% Synthetic oil with 90% mineral oil and call it a blend so unless it says Semi (half&half) synthetic then who knows how much synthetic you are getting in a blended bottle of oil. I will use Full Synthetic in my RT.

Full Synthetic is used very loosely in the United States. Synthetic can represent both the relatively cheap process of adding chemicals to standard oil (as in Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline Quaker State and many others) or the much more expensive Ester Based, molecular engineered oils like Amsoil and a few others. If the customer doesn't know any better (and most do not) they think they are getting true synthetic oil when they are not.

Adding chemicals that tend to break down (some more quicly than others and varies by brand and product) is not the same as the stabilized molecular process used in truely synthetic oils.

I did learn something with this one though.

This we already knew (from an e-How article on oil)

Synthetic blend motor oil is motor oil that is made by combining synthetic motor oil and traditional petroleum-based motor oil. The amount of synthetic motor oil content in synthetic blend motor oil is 10 percent or less. (My input starts here) This means you're getting a MAXIMUM of 3.2oz of synthetic oil in every quart. They should call it 'Almost the same as the non-blended'. Blended makes you feel good but does little beyone that.

Read more:Synthetic Vs. Synthetic Blend Motor Oil http://www.ehow.com/facts_5946019_synthetic-synthetic-blend-motor-oil.html#ixzz1bS5Hj3UA

So we are on track so far. However, (from another e-How article)

Semi-synthetic motor oil is a mineral oil blend containing 30 percent or less synthetic oil. (My input again) So, Semi means 'Some', not 1/2 as you would assume. Certainly the producers are hoping you think Semi means 1/2. Don't you just love marketing!

Read more: What Is Semi-Synthetic Motor Oil? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_6009158_semi_synthetic-motor-oil_.html#ixzz1bS5nOVLo

And the article also had this little tidbit to add. This is so right on. I love these guys!

Warning

• Synthetic blend motor oils do not offer much to the costumer, and are marketed because they are extremely cheap for manufacturers to produce.

 

[Roadkill]

"Full" is not "Pure" or "100%"

+A few years ago, blenders (with Castrol in the lead) won the right to label their products as "full synthetic", thereby throwing a veil over the eyes of consumers, who didn't (and still don't) know that "full" didn't mean "pure" or "100%"...

Ride on.
Roadkill

 

[BajaRon]

+A few years ago, blenders (with Castrol in the lead) won the right to label their products as "full synthetic", thereby throwing a veil over the eyes of consumers, who didn't (and still don't) know that "full" didn't mean "pure" or "100%"...

Ride on.
Roadkill

The only place in the world you can get away with calling it Synthetic when it isn't is right here in the land of the free and the home of the brave!

I'm not much for doing things the way they do in other countries, but we defintely have it very wrong on this one. Still, the information is out there if people want to educate themselves. But the manufactures of the fake synthetic oil know that most people will never figure it out.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

syn oil

I know i'm gonna get flamed for this.... My best friend is a master mechanic in the truest since of the word, I would put him up against anyone. That said... after riding my spyder for a few hours ( read Testing ) I asked him about the CLUTCH FEEL he said what about it its fine no adjustment necessary, why do you ask. I told him since I have owned my spyder I have used WALMART 10-40 full synthetic in it ( 2 + yrs.) and its an " M" oil and that's a bad thing. he said BS your clutch is fine. SOOOOOO do what you think is best for you but I will continue to use The bad stuff. PS if I paid attention to every thing the computer said I would only have ridden the spyder for about 7 hrs. and would have had to sell my house and given all the money to the dealer to pay his bills........The kicker is it still wouldn't be fixed :gaah::roflblack: Mike

 

[NancysToy]

I know i'm gonna get flamed for this.... My best friend is a master mechanic in the truest since of the word, I would put him up against anyone. That said... after riding my spyder for a few hours ( read Testing ) I asked him about the CLUTCH FEEL he said what about it its fine no adjustment necessary, why do you ask. I told him since I have owned my spyder I have used WALMART 10-40 full synthetic in it ( 2 + yrs.) and its an " M" oil and that's a bad thing. he said BS your clutch is fine. SOOOOOO do what you think is best for you but I will continue to use The bad stuff. PS if I paid attention to every thing the computer said I would only have ridden the spyder for about 7 hrs. and would have had to sell my house and given all the money to the dealer to pay his bills........The kicker is it still wouldn't be fixed :gaah::roflblack: Mike

The means by which manufacturers reach the SM rating varies, as does the amount and types of additives. Most friction modifiers will cause wet clutch slippage, which eventually results in a burned clutch. For that reason, BRP has elected to specify other than SM oils. There may well be some that will not harm the clutch, but BRP cannot specify brands, and is unlikely to ever test them all. It is easier for them to prohibit all SM oils. If you do use an SM oil and suffer clutch damage, it will not be warrantied. The risk and choice is yours. Your Walmart oil is apparently not "bad", but it still does not meet BRP specs. As long as you are happy and can live with that, go for it! Others have to make their own decisions.