WTF? Can't find anyone to mount my new Quadtrac tires!

[mecsw500]

I was looking up tire regulations for tires for trikes and I think part of it comes under federal law is: Section 571.120 - Standard No. 120; Tire selection and rims for motor vehicles other than passenger cars.

Then I tried to find out the regulations for Canadian law, it was equally vague. Then there was per state regulations, such as for California which has additional regulations. Then there were ANSI standards, Industry Body guidelines, European Union, Australian and South American rules and regulations which the US regulations cross referenced at length presumably for global tire distribution reasons.

It all got rather more complicated still as in some circumstances trikes were regarded as motorcycles, some as auto cycles and some as automobiles. I could not make much sense of how all the regulations would apply. I'm sure can Am has a large legal department to deal with all this regulatory complexity.

Also, there was all the paperwork that anybody regarded as a tire fitter (very broad) has to fill out for the NHTSA to track tire recalls. It was almost like registering a fire arm purchase, lol.

I also noticed that none of the NHTSA tests seemed to apply to trikes running car tires at low pressures. There just seemed to be cars and motorcycles. Most of the tests seemed to have been derived in the era of cross ply tires. Tire manufacturers have to go through a huge amount of test submissions to the NHTSA to bring a tire to market. For a vehicle that has only 100,000 ever sold, I don't think that tire manufacturers would be lining up to produce new tires in sizes or specifications specifically for our trikes.

From the complexity of the regulations and how they don't seemed to be directed to reverse trike vehicles (many rules were dated 2003 or earlier) it seems it would be quite tricky for a tire dealer, or even a Can Am dealer, to know whether it was conforming to Federal law or not by fitting third party tires. Even the Federal government was reviewing tire regulations to see if many of the rules and tests were still relevant, or whether they were even practical, for modern tires. In addition, there were reviews in progress to determine if different regulations should apply to trikes and reverse trikes compared with side by side 3 wheel auto cycle style vehicles for safety standards.

If I was a tire fitter, I would be very wary of fitting anything other than the OEM specified tire, especially if I had to create a paper trail for every set of tires I fitted.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I was looking up tire regulations for tires for trikes and I think part of it comes under federal law is: Section 571.120 - Standard No. 120; Tire selection and rims for motor vehicles other than passenger cars.

Then I tried to find out the regulations for Canadian law, it was equally vague. Then there was per state regulations, such as for California which has additional regulations. Then there were ANSI standards, Industry Body guidelines, European Union, Australian and South American rules and regulations which the US regulations cross referenced at length presumably for global tire distribution reasons.

It all got rather more complicated still as in some circumstances trikes were regarded as motorcycles, some as auto cycles and some as automobiles. I could not make much sense of how all the regulations would apply. I'm sure can Am has a large legal department to deal with all this regulatory complexity.

Also, there was all the paperwork that anybody regarded as a tire fitter (very broad) has to fill out for the NHTSA to track tire recalls. It was almost like registering a fire arm purchase, lol.

I also noticed that none of the NHTSA tests seemed to apply to trikes running car tires at low pressures. There just seemed to be cars and motorcycles. Most of the tests seemed to have been derived in the era of cross ply tires. Tire manufacturers have to go through a huge amount of test submissions to the NHTSA to bring a tire to market. For a vehicle that has only 100,000 ever sold, I don't think that tire manufacturers would be lining up to produce new tires in sizes or specifications specifically for our trikes.

From the complexity of the regulations and how they don't seemed to be directed to reverse trike vehicles (many rules were dated 2003 or earlier) it seems it would be quite tricky for a tire dealer, or even a Can Am dealer, to know whether it was conforming to Federal law or not by fitting third party tires. Even the Federal government was reviewing tire regulations to see if many of the rules and tests were still relevant, or whether they were even practical, for modern tires. In addition, there were reviews in progress to determine if different regulations should apply to trikes and reverse trikes compared with side by side 3 wheel auto cycle style vehicles for safety standards.

If I was a tire fitter, I would be very wary of fitting anything other than the OEM specified tire, especially if I had to create a paper trail for every set of tires I fitted.

From everything that I know of the regs .... what it comes down to is .... does tire BEAD match the wheel / rim BEAD ... Spyders use the " J " type design ... both for wheels and for tires .... all the rest of the info just confuses things..... Thanks for responding ... " I M S " and I have both done a lot of research on this Topic, and I also respect His and your point of view . ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[davev1pa]

I bought the 36mm socket. I bought the dang torque wrench. I took the dang rear tire off. I took to a local car tire shop. He wasn’t able to balance it but several Spyderlovers don’t rear balance. $25 I was dang happy! Was it really hard? Nope. Did I do the rear brake pads at the same time?-dang right. I find that the anxiety before any process is the real battle… The famous footwear philosopher..Nike said it best “Just do it”

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Boz329, have we done any good in helping you to understand the situation? We've tried our best to give you a good answer, even though it's probably not the one you wanted.

 

[mecsw500]

To re-but #2 .- There once was a member on this forum who was possibly the smartest Spyder owner EVER, and they swore the computer that controlled the STABILITY function could Actually tell if you didn't have Kenda tires on your Spyder. :gaah: think about that for a moment ^^^^^^ ... if this could be so, then how or why are you able to re-place any tire on any car / trk with any tire ( that is similar in size.) ????? ..... They had no answer for that either..... To re-but / answer #1.- ...LOW BIDDER - period .... BRP launched the Spyder line on a " shoe-string " .... long, long go it was widely reported that Sen Mitt Romney & wife put enough money into the project that BRP was able to do it. ...... Mike :thumbup:

I'm sure Kendra was the low bidder, too. They do quite a lot of lower volume specialist tires so I'm sure they were more likely to want the business than a large volume manufacturer like Michelin.I doubt the stability control could determine the brand of tire myself, but I suspect it could probably determine the difference in rolling circumference of fronts relative to rears, or even perhaps just the rolling circumference of tires in general, though I doubt if minor differences from stock would matter that much. I'd rather suspect you would have to get considerably different from standard before it complained. It would be interesting to know just how much bigger a rolling circumference front or rear you would have to get before it threw up its hands in horror. It must be irritating in some EU countries where you can only fit tires in the exact original manufacturer size supplied when new. It is interesting that BRP in fact manufactures tires, as I think Rotax owns Mojo tires as used on performance go karts.

 

[askitee]

This is nuts. Live in Toledo, Ohio. Bought 3 new Quadtrac tires for my 2019 F3 Limited. I have done all upgrades myself but don't want to tackle that rear tire install. I have called every dealer within 100 miles (Michigan and Ohio) and every dealer refuses to mount anything but the crappy OEM tires. (One dealer does Laser alignment, thought I would have that done at install as well to encourage the mounting.) What the hell am I supposed to do now? Can't imagine a car tire place would want to tackle a Spyder. :banghead:

I have a tyre place that does mine, I order the tyres thru him and to keep all things discreet, I remove he wheels and he fits and balances the tyres. I was doing the same at another tyre specialist, but they couldn't supply the rubber.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm sure Kendra was the low bidder, too. They do quite a lot of lower volume specialist tires so I'm sure they were more likely to want the business than a large volume manufacturer like Michelin.I doubt the stability control could determine the brand of tire myself, but I suspect it could probably determine the difference in rolling circumference of fronts relative to rears, or even perhaps just the rolling circumference of tires in general, though I doubt if minor differences from stock would matter that much. I'd rather suspect you would have to get considerably different from standard before it complained. It would be interesting to know just how much bigger a rolling circumference front or rear you would have to get before it threw up its hands in horror. It must be irritating in some EU countries where you can only fit tires in the exact original manufacturer size supplied when new. It is interesting that BRP in fact manufactures tires, as I think Rotax owns Mojo tires as used on performance go karts.

When referencing front to rear tires sizes and the possibility of " to great a difference causing an issue ". .... keep in mind that Spyder and Ryker have ONLY a small range of sizes that are even sold ..... in the past 12-13 years no one here has tried a combination of sizes that will up-set the computer. When or if we have a change in wheel sizes ( ie. diameter ) then it might change. ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[bikerbillone]

Interesting, I just don't think of the nanny when small incremental tire sizes are an issue.

 

[WilcoJunoHotel]

I'm sure Kendra was the low bidder, too.

Given the way the Canadian government is handling the trucker/Covid issue, I would bet there are some Govt regulations somewhere that are involved as well.

They do quite a lot of lower volume specialist tires so I'm sure they were more likely to want the business than a large volume manufacturer like Michelin.

Having worked for Michelin years ago, I doubt we will see them make a golf cart tire anytime soon like Kenda (although Michelin used to still make bicycle tires - not sure if they still do).

Many Iron Butt motorcycle riders for years have been putting car tires (Dark Side) on their bikes and swear by them: Completely different bead and completely different tire construction and application. Personally I would not do that but I have ridden behind guys with them on their bikes and they did amazingly well in the twisties.........

BTW, not sure if you are deliberately misspelling the name but it is Kenda, not Kendra. Many here call it Crap-enda so I guess anything goes.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

BTW, not sure if you are deliberately misspelling the name but it is Kenda, not Kendra. Many here call it Crap-enda so I guess anything goes.

Maybe when he thinks about the negatives of the Kenda his mind automatically substitutes the name of a previous troublesome love! :roflblack:

 

[Fire34]

Must be a lucky one, my local dealer installed my rear kuhmo no problem, would have been a little less if it wasnt for the hitch. The fronts were another story took them to a local car repair shop and they mounted and balanced them for a third of what the local delaer wanted.

 

[trikermutha]

You can take the fronts to a tire shop. The only problem is most dont have the right size cone to balance them.

 

[mecsw500]

Maybe when he thinks about the negatives of the Kenda his mind automatically substitutes the name of a previous troublesome love! :roflblack:

Nope, of all the wives I've had, and there been a few, none were call Kendra. Just my crappy spelling. BTW I still think the later Kendas aren't that bad for typical OEM tires, they just wear really quick and like any OEM tires are expensive to replace. It's the lack of higher quality factory approved options that annoys me. I don't blame the dealers, they are between a rock and a hard place and I would do exactly as they do in their situation. I wonder if any race shops would fit them for you if you supplied the rubber as they are usually more used to modified vehicles?

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

Juust don't mention them by name please :lecturef_smilie:

Cos we know from experience that if you do that, then for some inexplicable reason it probably won't be all that long before they too start toe-ing the corporate line!?! . :gaah:

It's amazing that they are paying enough attention here to come down on the dealer that would be mentioned but not fix the problem (Their crappy tires ) that is constantly popping up in these threads. :bdh:

 

[Peter Aawen]

It's amazing that they are paying enough attention here to come down on the dealer that would be mentioned but not fix the problem (Their crappy tires ) that is constantly popping up in these threads. :bdh:

Truer Words were never spoken/written!! :gaah:

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

I just got lucky and found somebody that's willing to do the tire change and I dont have to drive half a day to get there.

Just ordered these from tire rack Front:175/55R-15 VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL
Back:205/60R-15 VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL

Although after doing some reading after my order I think I may have ordered too wide. Are the fronts that I ordered too big or will I have to do something special to accommodate them or should I cancel the order and drop it to 165's?

 

[troop]

165/60R15's are direct plug-n-play. "Might" have to shim the fenders for the 175's.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I just got lucky and found somebody that's willing to do the tire change and I dont have to drive half a day to get there.

Just ordered these from tire rack Front:175/55R-15 VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL
Back:205/60R-15 VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL

Although after doing some reading after my order I think I may have ordered too wide. Are the fronts that I ordered too big or will I have to do something special to accommodate them or should I cancel the order and drop it to 165's?

While I can't tell you specifically about the 175/55 Vredesteins (cos they're hard to get in Oz! ) but MOST tires that size fit Spyders without any concerns, and for those that don't just slip straight in/on, it's usually a relatively simple matter of swapping the hex head bolts in the inner fender for pan head bolts; OR maybe fitting a washer under each of the fender mount bolts; OR simply cutting the existing zip ties holding the wires to the fender brackets, twisting the wires around the fender bracket rods so they're away from the tire/on the outside, and fitting some new zip ties. :thumbup:

Seriously, the time/effort that it takes to do any of this just to make sure the 175's fit is insignificant; just do it, I really doubt you'll ever regret it - and besides, it's probably waaaaayyyy less effort than going to the bother of changing/cancelling your order!

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

Actually tire rack is very accommodating and let me cancel the order and was able to get the 165's ordered. I am trying to keep it plug and play as much as possible.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[thereverend]

I would drop to the 165/60/R15