Why The SE 5 Will Not Shift - Common Cause & More

[Jeriatric]

When you select up/down on the shift paddle an electrical impulse is sent to a hydraulically actuated shift controller and hydraulic pressure shuttles a valve completing the shift request.

The SE 5 hydraulic system has a ' dedicated pressure pump ' that supplies oil pressure to shuttle the shift control valve. (this system has it own/dedicated oil filter too)

The oil pickup that supplies the pump is located ' at the bottom ' of the engine oil reservoir.

Which brings me to the point of this post.

A low oil reading. At or below the ADD mark on the oil reservoir dip stick will certainly lead to shifting problems when the spyder is in motion.

Think of it this way. If your oil level is at or below the ADD mark when the spyder is setting still on level ground. What do you think happens to that same oil level when the spyder is in motion? You got it. It swishes around.

When the oil level is low and swishing around the oil pump can/will be deprived of its oil supply. NOT GOOD.

The oil pump that supplies the shift controller, also supplies oil to the clutches. Therefore, failure to maintain a proper oil level will not only cause shifting problems, it could/will cause premature clutch failure.

Hope this helps those who are less mechanically inclined and probably wonder WHY all the fuss about maintaining proper oil levels in the SE 5.

Try keeping your oil at - at least - the halfway mark.




Purposely stayed away from using HCM & TCM for simplicity. KISS

 

[Chupaca]

Interesting..!!

thanks for the most informative mini lecture on the se5 tranny operation. Hope those that have them give this post a glance..!! :2thumbs:

 

[ulflyer]

Jerbear: good info. I've always been a "half way" on the stick person, but may up that to closer to full.

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for a very concise and clear explanation! :clap:
Now... If only the "melting right foot" issue was this easy!

 

[Frank G]

When you select up/down on the shift paddle an electrical impulse is sent to a hydraulically actuated shift controller and hydraulic pressure shuttles a valve completing the shift request.

The SE 5 hydraulic system has a ' dedicated pressure pump ' that supplies oil pressure to shuttle the shift control valve. (this system has it own/dedicated oil filter too)

The oil pickup that supplies the pump is located ' at the bottom ' of the engine oil reservoir.

Which brings me to the point of this post.

A low oil reading. At or below the ADD mark on the oil reservoir dip stick will certainly lead to shifting problems when the spyder is in motion.

Think of it this way. If your oil level is at or below the ADD mark when the spyder is setting still on level ground. What do you think happens to that same oil level when the spyder is in motion? You got it. It swishes around.

When the oil level is low and swishing around the oil pump can/will be deprived of its oil supply. NOT GOOD.

The oil pump that supplies the shift controller, also supplies oil to the clutches. Therefore, failure to maintain a proper oil level will not only cause shifting problems, it could/will cause premature clutch failure.

Hope this helps those who are less mechanically inclined and probably wonder WHY all the fuss about maintaining proper oil levels in the SE 5.

Try keeping your oil at - at least - the halfway mark.




Purposely stayed away from using HCM & TCM for simplicity. KISS

So this oil pickup has the attached screen located in the oil reservoir, correct? This is to be removed and cleaned at the 600 mi service, and I don't think it requires further servicing according to the manual. I would think this oil pickup must also be shared with the engine lubrication system. It might be time to remove and clean this screen at the next oil change and see if it picked up any additional stuff, as it wouldn't take much to create a starvation issue.

Thanks for the information, It helps us understand the internal workings of these complex machines.:bowdown:

 

[Jeriatric]

So this oil pickup has the attached screen located in the oil reservoir, correct? This is to be removed and cleaned at the 600 mi service, and I don't think it requires further servicing according to the manual. I would think this oil pickup must also be shared with the engine lubrication system. It might be time to remove and clean this screen at the next oil change and see if it picked up any additional stuff, as it wouldn't take much to create a starvation issue.

Thanks for the information, It helps us understand the internal workings of these complex machines.:bowdown:

Oil Screen ? " This is to be removed and cleaned at the 600 mi service, and I don't think it requires further servicing according to the manual. "

To be cleaned and inspected every 14,000 miles or two years. Which ever comes first.
*Except for those In California - then It's every 12,000 miles or two years.

" I would think this oil pickup must also be shared with the engine lubrication system. "

It is....the system consists of two oil pumps. A suction pump and a pressure pump. Both rely on the same oil supply.

 

[Illinois Boy]

So this oil pickup has the attached screen located in the oil reservoir, correct? This is to be removed and cleaned at the 600 mi service, and I don't think it requires further servicing according to the manual. I would think this oil pickup must also be shared with the engine lubrication system. It might be time to remove and clean this screen at the next oil change and see if it picked up any additional stuff, as it wouldn't take much to create a starvation issue.

Thanks for the information, It helps us understand the internal workings of these complex machines.:bowdown:

I have my suspicions you may be correct...

 

[oldgoat]

This "screen" that has to be cleaned : Is it only for the SE5 models or do the SM5 ones have it as well?

I have an '08 SM5 & see no sign of access to a screen in my oil reservoir.

 

[billybovine]

The engine oil pick has a screen that needs to be checked and cleaned from time to time. The HCM does not shared the same oil pick up. It has it's own oil line from the same oil tank and no screen.

 

[Jeriatric]

This "screen" that has to be cleaned : Is it only for the SE5 models or do the SM5 ones have it as well?

I have an '08 SM5 & see no sign of access to a screen in my oil reservoir.

All Spyder's have a oil screen. It is located behind the hose that comes out the bottom of the oil tank.

Note: The clamp used on this hose requires a special tool and clamp. So, before you decide to maintain it yourself. Make sure you have the required tools, seals, and clamps for proper reinstallation.

 

[Jeriatric]

The engine oil pick has a screen that needs to be checked and cleaned from time to time. The HCM does not shared the same oil pick up. It has it's own oil line from the same oil tank and no screen.

Was hoping this would not go all technical. The idea was to keep it simple so folks would understand the need for proper oil levels. If you need to go technical. Please PM me.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

Great info. This should really help the folks with SEs keep the shifting alligators at bay. :2thumbs:

 

[billybovine]

Was hoping this would not go all technical. The idea was to keep it simple so folks would understand the need for proper oil levels. If you need to go technical. Please PM me.

So my use of the term HCM is too technical OK.

It was clear that the thread was headed in the direction that a dirty oil screen could cause shifting problems, not true. The oil used to shift gears does not come through the screen the engine oil does. There are two separate lines.

When having shifting trouble with an SE5, checking the oil level and topping it up should be the first troubleshooting step. It's quick, easy and cheap to do. There have been many reports of topping up the oil correcting a shifting problem. That you can’t argue with. Now there seems to be a premise that allowing the oil level to fall will cause shifting trouble. That has not been my experience, but with others appears so.

The oil to lubricate and cool the clutch does not come from the gear shift system; it comes from the engine oiling system. To most people it does not matter, but I mention this to keep information accurate.

Now that said, Jerbear is correct that the oil level needs to be checked regularly (BRP says every 300 mi.) and needs to kept in the operating range between add and full. This does not matter if it is an SE or SM. So if for some reason you find that you have been operating your Spyder with the oil level a little outside the operating range. Correct the level and drive on. Don’t worry, BRP has built in some margin for safety, but this does not mean you should intentionally use it.

 

[Jeriatric]

So my use of the term HCM is too technical OK.

It was clear that the thread was headed in the direction that a dirty oil screen could cause shifting problems, not true. The oil used to shift gears does not come through the screen the engine oil does. There are two separate lines.

When having shifting trouble with an SE5, checking the oil level and topping it up should be the first troubleshooting step. It's quick, easy and cheap to do. There have been many reports of topping up the oil correcting a shifting problem. That you can’t argue with. Now there seems to be a premise that allowing the oil level to fall will cause shifting trouble. That has not been my experience, but with others appears so.

The oil to lubricate and cool the clutch does not come from the gear shift system; it comes from the engine oiling system. To most people it does not matter, but I mention this to keep information accurate.

Now that said, Jerbear is correct that the oil level needs to be checked regularly (BRP says every 300 mi.) and needs to kept in the operating range between add and full. This does not matter if it is an SE or SM. So if for some reason you find that you have been operating your Spyder with the oil level a little outside the operating range. Correct the level and drive on. Don’t worry, BRP has built in some margin for safety, but this does not mean you should intentionally use it.

All good information. Only wish you would have written the post instead of myself. That way everyone would have understood the subject so much more clearly.

That'll learn me.

 

[ARCTIC]

I'm sure my thread I started is one of the threads that sparked this topic. I will say this: The difference in oil from "ADD" to "FULL" is an insanely minute amount of oil (like less than 1/4 of a quart). If the shift disruption is infact from oil starvation instead of some sort of low oil pressure.... There is a real engineering problem that could easily be solved. I can't believe that the difference between OVERFULL and DANGEROUSLY EMPTY is that tiny amount of oil. Hopefully the "less mechanically inclined" statement wasn't directed at me!!!

 

[Jeriatric]

I'm sure my thread I started is one of the threads that sparked this topic. I will say this: The difference in oil from "ADD" to "FULL" is an insanely minute amount of oil (like less than 1/4 of a quart). If the shift disruption is infact from oil starvation instead of some sort of low oil pressure.... There is a real engineering problem that could easily be solved. I can't believe that the difference between OVERFULL and DANGEROUSLY EMPTY is that tiny amount of oil.



Hopefully the "less mechanically inclined" statement wasn't directed at me!!!

It was not.

In fact, the post you mention was but one of many on the subject in the last few weeks.

 

[oldgoat]

All Spyder's have a oil screen. It is located behind the hose that comes out the bottom of the oil tank.

Note: The clamp used on this hose requires a special tool and clamp. So, before you decide to maintain it yourself. Make sure you have the required tools, seals, and clamps for proper reinstallation.

Thank you.

I have Oetiker pliers & a supply of various sizes of their clamps.

 

[Jeriatric]

Thank you.

I have Oetiker pliers & a supply of various sizes of their clamps.

No, thank you. For getting this thread back on track. :thumbup:

 

[spyryder]

Thank you.

I have Oetiker pliers & a supply of various sizes of their clamps.

I haven't tried it yet but it looks like you can unbolt the hose from the engine and unscrew it from the tank without removing the clamp. :thumbup:

 

[oldgoat]

I haven't tried it yet but it looks like you can unbolt the hose from the engine and unscrew it from the tank without removing the clamp. :thumbup:

That would be neat. I'll have a look next time I have a panel off.