What is an entry level Spyder?

[Rob Rodriguez]

Folks keep asking for the RS with the 998...
That's NOT going to happen.
They've got better entry level engines available; they just need to plug them into an acceptable platform.

I agree...I don't that would happen. I'm not in the market for an entry level Spyder either. I just wondered what people thought an entry level Spyder might be since the subject seems to keep popping up.

I'm in the market for a non crusier riding position Spyder and I'd love it to have a more potent engine than the 998

 

[classicvw]

Firstly, No manufacturer decides on producing a product lineup with any thought to their used market. Period. Only the motorcycle public does when choosing a Spyder to purchase.

Secondly, recognizing the size and complexity of a Spyder as compared to anyone else's entry level offering, there's no way BRP is going to get in the $6K-$10K realm for a new Spyder. Where do you make the cuts? A smaller engine is about the only thing I can imagine. And how much smaller do you make it before the motorcycling press and public laugh at it's slowness in pushing a Spyder's weight around?
It also doesn't save a manufacturer several thousand dollars to replace a 1330 with a 700. You still have to spend $$$$ on R&D, building a new assembly line, making the motor and necessary spare parts to support the model, etc.

Say they ARE able to build a $10K stripped entry level Spyder? There's dozens if not hundreds right now out there with low miles that originally sold for $20K with 2,000 miles on them for $10K. Many buyers would opt to take a chance on a much more equipped used model than a stripped new one. I know some would prefer the new with warranty, but not all.

 

[ARtraveler]

Hi Alaska,

Re: an engine that has now been discontinued.

The 998 is built by Rotax, a company owned by BRP; it seems as it is only discontinued in Spyders.

Rotax builds engines for many applications. They have been building engines for light-aircraft use for many years.

Unless I missed the memo, the engine can still obtained.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Isn't the 998 used in the Aprilla?

Thanks for the update on the 998. That is good to know. :yes:

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

I keep hearing on this forum how "complex" a Spyder is and honestly I just don't get it. Is it any more complex than other bikes? The electronic control systems might be but what else is?

My neighbor who I ride with quite a bit has BMW K1600 GT. It has a 6 cyclinder 145hp engine that has some serious pull and he gets about 40-45mpg The weight of his bike is about the same as my RS He has GPS, heated grips, ABS, traction control with settings for different weather (and the ability to turn it off) power adjustable windshield, power adjustable seat, touring bags standard, radio, power port and usb plug-ins, shaft drive, 6 speed...I mean the thing is great. How is the Spyder any more complex than his bike?

 

[ARtraveler]

One of the complaints we hear a lot of is how hard to work on. Have you tried simple things like changing light bulbs, or putting in different spark plugs? Putting air in the rear tire is even a pain for a lot of us.

Add in all the electronic glitches that can happen, and you have a mechanics nightmare--IMO anyway.

If I did not have a competent dealer/mechanic--I would have been long gone. :yes::yes:

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

Sure, I agree its a PITA to work on but that's BRP fault. Sleds used to be the same way. Now you can have a new sleds body work off and access to everything in about 3 minutes (seriously). I'm sure some other bikes are a PITA to work on and some are not. The electronics can go crazy but that's true of anything automotive nowadays and I'm sure true of other bikes.

Is the Spyder complex....sure. More complex than other "automotive" type vehicles (cars, ATV, motorcycles, scooters, sled, etc).....I don't think so.

 

[ARtraveler]

Sure, I agree its a PITA to work on but that's BRP fault. Sleds used to be the same way. Now you can have a new sleds body work off and access to everything in about 3 minutes (seriously). I'm sure some other bikes are a PITA to work on and some are not. The electronics can go crazy but that's true of anything automotive nowadays and I'm sure true of other bikes.

Is the Spyder complex....sure. More complex than other "automotive" type vehicles (cars, ATV, motorcycles, scooters, sled, etc).....I don't think so.

:agree: All of the new stuff is complex because of the electronics. I used to change the oil/filters and other small maintenance on all my cars and bikes. Not any more with any of the cars/bikes.

 

[asp125]

The Rotax 998 is the same basic Aprilia motorcycle motor. If Aprilia can pump out 139 and 143Hp in their RSV Mille / WSBK motors, imagine putting that in an RS would really wake it up! :yikes: As for working on it, it's no more hassle than removing fairings on a normal bike. Though replacing all the Torx fasteners with push clips or Dzus fasteners like two wheelers would make body removal a snap. But I digress...

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

The Rotax 998 is the same basic Aprilia motorcycle motor. If Aprilia can pump out 139 and 143Hp in their RSV Mille / WSBK motors, imagine putting that in an RS would really wake it up! :yikes: But I digress...

It would be awesome! BRP seems to have no interest in doing this though?? Not sure why?

 

[asp125]

It would be awesome! BRP seems to have no interest in doing this though?? Not sure why?

Because #oldmansbike, they tried and failed marketing to the go faster crowd. They left it to the aftermarket to slap a turbo kit on it. The "cruise and smell the flowers" buyers far outnumber the "grip it and rip it" ones.

Plus it may have something to do with Aprilia reserving their best motors for their own products.

 

[classicvw]

Maybe 'complex' is the wrong word. It's not really more complex technology, it's the increased number and size of the parts that adds cost as compared to say, a modern Honda 750. Obviously, there's three car sized tires and wheels, a car-like front suspension, larger frame, etc. All that adds cost to manufacture.

An 'entry level' Spyder will never compete with an entry or even mid level any other brand two wheeler.

 

[bboley]

This Please!!!

ray:Something like this with less chrome???

 

[asp125]

Maybe a sub $10k entry level Spyder will be called an Elio? What ... too soon? :roflblack:

 

[PistonBlown]

The local dealer here uses secondhand RS's as entry level machines and offers a very good trade-in on them because of that. He said that no one wants to fork out the cost of an F3 as their first Spyder, its too much money on something they are not sure they'll like. However if he can get them hooked on Spyders by selling them a secondhand RS, then they'll come back after a year or two and upgrade to a new F3 or RT.

 

[jcthorne]

I keep hearing on this forum how "complex" a Spyder is and honestly I just don't get it. Is it any more complex than other bikes? The electronic control systems might be but what else is?

My neighbor who I ride with quite a bit has BMW K1600 GT. It has a 6 cyclinder 145hp engine that has some serious pull and he gets about 40-45mpg The weight of his bike is about the same as my RS He has GPS, heated grips, ABS, traction control with settings for different weather (and the ability to turn it off) power adjustable windshield, power adjustable seat, touring bags standard, radio, power port and usb plug-ins, shaft drive, 6 speed...I mean the thing is great. How is the Spyder any more complex than his bike?

Power steering, Vehicle stability control, 3 channel ABS with computer controlled front to rear modulation. Those 3 add quite a bit to the cost factor and complexity. Its also why you do not see any of them on the trike conversion market.

 

[Bob Denman]

The 998 is built by Rotax, a company owned by BRP; it seems as it is only discontinued in Spyders.
Rotax builds engines for many applications. They have been building engines for light-aircraft use for many years.
Unless I missed the memo, the engine can still obtained.
Jerry Baumchen
PS) Isn't the 998 used in the Aprilla?

The question of whether or not it's available is not the issue: it's about a company taking a step backwards. :shocked:
They have other engines that are powerful enough for an entry-level bike. The engines are proven, and they are FAR less labor-intensive when it comes to maintenance. :thumbup:

 

[PrairieSpyder]

However it would be configured, I think an entry-level Spyder under $10k would be a good marketing move. Many, if not most of us came to Spyders after a certain age and having had some experience on 2 wheels. Many 2-wheel riders see Spyders as some freaky motorcycle they'd only ride if they had to. And many people would love to get into the wind, but fear the 2-wheel thing - either from stories of their danger or lack of confidence. (For me, it was a confidence matter and my short stature.)

Think of young people who would be introduced to Spyders with a less-expensive, very basic Spyder that is adequate for getting around town, to school, etc.. Capture some of the market at that point and they'll stay with Spyder as their lives progress and they're able to afford a $20k+ machine.

 

[asp125]

Ski Doo roots

What if they took their Ski Doo line, and somehow morphed them into road machines.

Something stripped down like a sled with their light weight and their 850cc or 1200cc Rotax motors would be fun to ride.

Price wise their sleds seem to be hovering between $8k and $14k, so ......

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

What if they took their Ski Doo line, and somehow morphed them into road machines.

Something stripped down like a sled with their light weight and their 850cc or 1200cc Rotax motors would be fun to ride.

Price wise their sleds seem to be hovering between $8k and $14k, so ......

The 850 is a 2 stroke so that's out.

The GS/RS Spyders essentially a 2003 REV snowmobile. meaning the riding position, the seat position, the handlebar position the configuring of components was all adopted from the snowmobile. If you sit on an RS and then sit on a REV snowmobile from 2003 you will see its exactly the same. The first Spyder test mules were the REV snowmobiles with longer A-arms and wheels. So, in some respects they have taken their sled and converted it to a Spyder. All that said. Ski-Doo built A LOT of heavy, not well performing and not very reliable sled models (remember the Stratos) through the 80's and 90's. It wasn't until the REV version came out that they really designed a completely different snowmobile experience with huge performance, weight savings and handling gains. I hope it doesn't take 20 yrs to get the Spyder to that level

 

[UtahPete]

However it would be configured, I think an entry-level Spyder under $10k would be a good marketing move. Many, if not most of us came to Spyders after a certain age and having had some experience on 2 wheels. Many 2-wheel riders see Spyders as some freaky motorcycle they'd only ride if they had to. And many people would love to get into the wind, but fear the 2-wheel thing - either from stories of their danger or lack of confidence. (For me, it was a confidence matter and my short stature.) Think of young people who would be introduced to Spyders with a less-expensive, very basic Spyder that is adequate for getting around town, to school, etc.. Capture some of the market at that point and they'll stay with Spyder as their lives progress and they're able to afford a $20k+ machine.

That strategy worked well for Honda in the 1960's ("you meet the nicest people on a Honda") to overcome many of the fears and stereotypes of motorcyclists at that time.