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What is an entry level Spyder?
- Thread starter Rob Rodriguez
- Start date
cmbspyderrss
New member
It can be done
I am sure many people thought they would never see a sub $10k BMW entry level bike either. The BMW G310R proves it can be done IF you want to.
I am sure many people thought they would never see a sub $10k BMW entry level bike either. The BMW G310R proves it can be done IF you want to.
Maybe they could bring them back ...
Pirate looks at --
New member
No Details
I really don't know much, but having spent some time with BRP reps......they DO have a desire to market and sell an entry level Spyder. This was a topic of discussion with the head of design and innovation last summer and I am pretty sure that it will be on the market in 2019! I think Bob is on to something with the 600 cc motor! It will be fun to see!:yes:
I really don't know much, but having spent some time with BRP reps......they DO have a desire to market and sell an entry level Spyder. This was a topic of discussion with the head of design and innovation last summer and I am pretty sure that it will be on the market in 2019! I think Bob is on to something with the 600 cc motor! It will be fun to see!:yes:
blacklightning
Well-known member
I hope you are correct. As for me, I think anything less than the 998 V-twin would be too weak. That engine was very nice in my 2012 RSS, and i would buy another in a minute. It had great power, but I wouldn't want any less.
Rob Rodriguez
New member
I'd have to agree with this. Any less power than the old 998 would be a non starter for a lot of people I think. I've ridden both the 600 and 900 ACE motors in the sleds....OMG, they can barely push a snowmobile down the trail and the sleds weigh less than a Spyder. They are way too utilitarian in there power delivery (think lawn mower). I wouldn't even consider them in a Spyder unless they had some reworking. I'm not saying they need to use the 998, they can use a 250 if they want. I just think whatever power plant they use has to make close to 100 HP and delivery it properly to be a satisfactory power plant for a bike that would weigh 550-800lbs.
Taking a page from the Ski-Doo line. They make an MXz model that has 5 different engine choices and a variety of suspension choices. The entry level MXz TNT can be as little as $7000 (600 carb motor putting out 120hp, and older rear suspension with low budget shocks). The top of the line performance MXz X-RS runs about $15000 but you get a 850, computer controlled engine with 170hp, the best suspension on snow and the premium shocks as well as some electronic upgrades. They are both essentially the same chassis and sled, just configured differently. I don't know why they don't do the same thing with the Spyder? It is to some level now but not to the same extent as the sleds.
I do believe they want/need an entry level Spyder. The Sea-Doo's, the sleds, the ATV's they all have a lower cost entry level option.
Bob Denman
New member
The folks who are saying that it can't be done are all looking at the issue from their personal narrow perspective.
Pure beginners may be intimidated by:
The cost
The complexity
The size
These issues would need to be addressed, if BRP were looking to expand their market share... :thumbup:
WE might be bored by a 600cc Trike... others may find it to be a way to get a toehold into an exciting new adventure! :thumbup:
Pure beginners may be intimidated by:
The cost
The complexity
The size
These issues would need to be addressed, if BRP were looking to expand their market share... :thumbup:
WE might be bored by a 600cc Trike... others may find it to be a way to get a toehold into an exciting new adventure! :thumbup:
Highwayman2013
New member
Right now the base F3 is it.
Where's there a market for a new BRP entry level Spyder? If there was one, the older RS with its 998 is available on the used market for those looking to get into Spyder riding. BRP would have to match the performance and bring it at a price point somewhere around $6-$8k, to compete with used RS/GS's. Who would buy a 600cc $5K Spyder? Not young riders that I've talked to, they want sport bikes or hipster roadsters. Repeated polls here point to an older, more affluent crowd. My guess is they might want a more comfortable optioned model.
That doesn't help the dealer any. BRP wants to sell new bikes, not support the used bike market, and the dealer needs something to offer the less-well-heeled buyer to get them into Spyder'ing.
Rob Rodriguez
New member
I don't really know if there is a strong market for it or not. I think the issue with the RS not selling as an entry level bike was the $15K price. I think entry level to a lot of people is in the $8-10K range?
Lots of people (myself included) don't like to buy used "stuff". They like new, with a warranty. An entry level Spyder might actually hurt used sales?
I agree that everyone has their own ideas of what something should be but I think in general even an entry level rider expects a certain level of performance when it comes to power. I just don't think a 600 with 60hp is going to inspire anyone to drop $ on a Spyder unless the power to weight ratio allows for it to impress.
Lots of people (myself included) don't like to buy used "stuff". They like new, with a warranty. An entry level Spyder might actually hurt used sales?
I agree that everyone has their own ideas of what something should be but I think in general even an entry level rider expects a certain level of performance when it comes to power. I just don't think a 600 with 60hp is going to inspire anyone to drop $ on a Spyder unless the power to weight ratio allows for it to impress.
When I was looking to get into a Spyder, there were many that had little mileage on them. Some practically under 10,000 miles. We found ours at a local Can Am dealer with 14k miles, not brand new but new-ish enough and bought it for around $10k iirc, I spent another maybe $2k over the years upgrading it the way I like it. Right now, my local Craigslist has several RS/GS used models under $9K, a couple under $8K. So I don't know how stripped down BRP would have to make the entry model spyder - my '08 GS has no fancy chrome, no navigation, audio, heated grips.. it's already bare bones. An entry level Spyder would have to be what? Given the cost of R&D, tooling, and production, can BRP produce a new model and make any profit without outsourcing to places like China with cheap quality parts? Maybe they will let the markup on premium model sales subsidize the base models?
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Rob Rodriguez
New member
That's the point of the post....... what is an "entry level" Spyder. If BRP came to you and said we want to build an entry level Spyder, what should it be? How would you answer the question?
Mine would be a re-release of the base RS, using as many off the shelf parts as possible to save production & tooling costs. I think even a certified pre-owned program will work. Porsche and Mercedes have in the past looked at CPO vehicles as the entry models, because building a totally new one won't come in at the targeted price point.
ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
Some good discussion going on so far. The :ani29: has a difficult market to crack. As said, most customers are currently over 50 and a bit more affluent than the average "newbie."
Based on technology required--getting the entry level :spyder2: to a sub $10K level may be pretty difficult. Much over that (as in $15K base models) and you have blown your lead.
Then there is the point where if you get to "no frills" you are going to have an issue with the comment--"you paid $10K--for THAT?"
These days, $10K to $15K will buy a pretty nice motorcycle. I got a really nice one for $7K.
A real dilemma for BRP. Going to have to watch this one. Not in the market for entry level any more.
Based on technology required--getting the entry level :spyder2: to a sub $10K level may be pretty difficult. Much over that (as in $15K base models) and you have blown your lead.
Then there is the point where if you get to "no frills" you are going to have an issue with the comment--"you paid $10K--for THAT?"
These days, $10K to $15K will buy a pretty nice motorcycle. I got a really nice one for $7K.
A real dilemma for BRP. Going to have to watch this one. Not in the market for entry level any more.
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Bob Denman
New member
Folks keep asking for the RS with the 998...
That's NOT going to happen.
They've got better entry level engines available; they just need to plug them into an acceptable platform.
That's NOT going to happen.
They've got better entry level engines available; they just need to plug them into an acceptable platform.
ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
:agree: with the no 998. I do not see BRP going back to an engine that has now been discontinued. They will have to use new or current configurations that have already been tested and proven reliable. RE-start up for a discontinued engine is most likely not in the works.
JerryB
New member
Hi Alaska,
Re: an engine that has now been discontinued.
The 998 is built by Rotax, a company owned by BRP; it seems as it is only discontinued in Spyders.
Rotax builds engines for many applications. They have been building engines for light-aircraft use for many years.
Unless I missed the memo, the engine can still obtained.
Jerry Baumchen
PS) Isn't the 998 used in the Aprilla?
Re: an engine that has now been discontinued.
The 998 is built by Rotax, a company owned by BRP; it seems as it is only discontinued in Spyders.
Rotax builds engines for many applications. They have been building engines for light-aircraft use for many years.
Unless I missed the memo, the engine can still obtained.
Jerry Baumchen
PS) Isn't the 998 used in the Aprilla?
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