What experiences have you had with Lithium Batteries?

[Jetfixer]

Here's what I have. Some good answers to your questions on their website. BMS built in. Great warranty. Also, their Genius chargers have a Lithium mode for keeping your Spyder on the charger. The NLP20 is the size for our Spyders.

https://no.co/products/lithium/powersport

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Milwaukee tool Lion batteries have a charge cycle counter in them. The warranty baseline is 1000 cycles. If a battery craps out before 1000 cycles or two years it's replaced. Before 1000 cycles and in years 3, 4, and 5 it's prorated. The date of first charge is recorded in the battery monitor chip. There is no mention of blocking recharges after xxx cycles.

 

[BajaRon]

Hello there is no such thing as counters for charging - most lithium batteries for cars bikes etc. will last 8-10 years and still work. The biggest problem is the alternator voltage is set at a lower level voltage for AGM lead gel. Lithium requires a higher voltage.

Mike
www.rvvolt.com

A lower volt charge for a lithium battery is not really a problem. You won't get to 100% charge. But your Lithium battery will last quite a bit longer if only charged to 80%. Always charging to 100% (and then letting it sit without using it) are what tend to kill this kind of battery. An 80% charged lithium battery will outperform a similar AGM at 100% charge. This disparity increases drastically in cold weather where an AGM may not provide more than 20% of capacity when cold.

And, as mentioned. Many charging systems now have the capacity to charge a lithium battery at the higher voltage to obtain 100% charge. The one thing you want to avoid is a charger or maintainer that has a Pulse system. Designed to desulfate a led acid battery. Pulse chargers can destroy a lithium battery in short order. I think some are doing this without realizing it and blaming the Lithium battery for not holding up.

Lithium, like many other things, have come a long way. But still live with a stigma that has pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird.

 

[UtahPete]

I don't understand. If the LiPo battery needs a special charger, how does the vehicle charging system designed for a conventional battery work ?
If the battery is dead, can you jumo it using a conventional jump pack or jumper cables to another vehicle ??

A conventional charger won't charge above 13 volts typically and usually less, like 12.6. A Lithium charger will go to about 14.2v, which is what it takes to fully charge a lithium battery. Your onboard charging system will take it to about 12.8, which is enough to keep the electronics lit and replace the energy lost to the starter motor.

For best results from a lithium battery, keep it on a maintainer designed for lithium.

You can 'jump' it with anything that will power the starter motor (12 volts), but remember to charge it up properly with a lithium charger first chance you get, or you're going to lose the benefit of having a lithium battery.

 

[FrogmanDave]

This inquiring mind wants to know. If a Lithium-Ion battery can be put in a Spyder and the alternator keeps it charged, why can’t an alternator be put into an all electric car such as a Tesla rather than having to plug into an electric outlet?

Something has to turn the alternator in order to generate electricity. In a gas engine vehicle it's the engine that does that. An all electric like the Tesla has no engine to turn the alternator.

Tesla's do not have alternators. Here's why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np1Ixd7FWzI It's a 20 minute watch, but it's your time if you choose to learn. Jeremy Fielding is an excellent teacher!

 

[BajaRon]

A conventional charger won't charge above 13 volts typically and usually less, like 12.6. A Lithium charger will go to about 14.2v, which is what it takes to fully charge a lithium battery. Your onboard charging system will take it to about 12.8, which is enough to keep the electronics lit and replace the energy lost to the starter motor.

For best results from a lithium battery, keep it on a maintainer designed for lithium.

You can 'jump' it with anything that will power the starter motor (12 volts), but remember to charge it up properly with a lithium charger first chance you get, or you're going to lose the benefit of having a lithium battery.

Always maintaining a Li-ion battery in a fully charged condition will shorten its lifespan.

 

[EdMat]

Tesla's do not have alternators. Here's why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np1Ixd7FWzI It's a 20 minute watch, but it's your time if you choose to learn. Jeremy Fielding is an excellent teacher!

He has another one that deals with airplane tires. He does a bit of comparison between a car, truck and airplane as far as construction and the need for different tire pressures. Some Spyder riders might benefit from watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af5_QCafS8o

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just be careful not to start discussing what various governments should or shouldn't do, or you might run afoul of the 'No Political Posts (or comments) allowed Rule'... and that'd be a shame, both for the person making the comment/post & for the otherwise interesting discussion. :lecturef_smilie:

Thanks for everyone's forbearance & consideration. :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Since this thread seems to have wandered waaayyy off topic, here's a reminder people:

What experience have owners had with Lithium Batteries? Are they better? do you need a battery maintainer for them? Does it need to be a special maintainer?

So going forward from this, we are no longer discussing anyone's political &/or environmental thoughts or concerns re Lithium batteries or any other items; and the topics/points that can be discussed here are as follows, or will at least have some point relating to/associated with the remaining earlier posts/comments in this thread & in line with the following:

• your experience with Lithium batteries powering your Spyder/Ryker;
• are these batteries better for your Spyder/Ryker than wet-cell/AGM batteries;
• do you need a battery maintainer for them when installed in/on your Spyder/Ryker; and
• will a Lithium battery in/on your Spyder/Ryker need a special battery maintainer?

Some off topic posts previously posted have already been removed; any further off topic posts will also be removed without notice; and any repeat offenders posting off topic posts will be dealt with iaw the Forum Rules! So please, keep your posts on & pertinent to the topic as above! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[ARtraveler]

Since this thread seems to have wandered waaayyy off topic, here's a reminder people:



So going forward from this, we are no longer discussing anyone's political &/or environmental thoughts or concerns re Lithium batteries or any other items; and the topics/points that can be discussed here are as follows, or will at least have some point relating to/associated with the remaining earlier posts/comments in this thread & in line with the following:

• your experience with Lithium batteries powering your Spyder/Ryker;
• are these batteries better for your Spyder/Ryker than wet-cell/AGM batteries;
• do you need a battery maintainer for them when installed in/on your Spyder/Ryker; and
• will a Lithium battery in/on your Spyder/Ryker need a special battery maintainer?

Some off topic posts previously posted have already been removed; any further off topic posts will also be removed without notice; and any repeat offenders posting off topic posts will be dealt with iaw the Forum Rules! So please, keep your posts on & pertinent to the topic as above! :lecturef_smilie:

:agree: x2

 

[tekslk]

Will this fit with no hassle? Terminals etc?

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Will this fit with no hassle? Terminals etc?

What battery in which post are you referring to? It helps a lot if you quote the post you are specifically responding to. (You can use the Reply with Quote button down the bottom of the applicable post to do this.)

 

[GWHIZZ]

I was told by some experienced people that I trust, not to go with a lithium. Granted, there have been some issues with them. But being the kind of guy I am, I didn't listen to them. This is the battery I got and I am EXTREMELY pleased with it. I think it is awesome!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075FC3WJ4/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is much smaller than the OEM battery so I don't have to wedge it into the very tight space allowed. It weighs almost nothing and delivers more power than the OEM battery. Lithium is supposed to last longer too. Have only had it for 6 months so can't say there.

There isn't anything special you need to do for it except you'll need a good Lithium battery charger. Do not use a charger that is not designed for lithium batteries.

My wife has the MMG Lithium battery in her 2018 F3L. Going on 5 yrs old still working strong

 

[Wmoater]

Out of curiosity, Besides Mikey, Dunkin and Idaho, everyone that has posted lives in warmer areas and doesn’t hibernate their spyders very long if at all. Living in the the snow belts and receiving 140-170 plus inches a year ( not this year of course) but colder on the average of 25 degrees all January 30’s in February, how does the Lithium hold up if put into hibernation in cold environment that long and not used? ( I’m talking November to mid late April) I have buddies who can’t leave their electric lawnmowers and chainsaws in the shed but need to have it heated all winter because the batteries are toast come spring even tendered. Heck, Dewalt suggests not leaving them out unused all winter in an unheated environment . I know these are a bit different as in size and battery packs but Just curious on your thoughts. I know this is an old thread but sort of relevant. How does Litho hold up over long winter hibernation, I’m talking 6 months worth not used and in or below 30’s most of the time? Yes electric cars do work all winter but they are being used not hibernating. If that is the case are we to take the battery out every winter and store inside? Seems to be a lot of fires on the news from lithium inside houses causing the fire.

 

[mandytuning]

Always maintaining a Li-ion battery in a fully charged condition will shorten its lifespan.

So how your mmg battery have done all this Years?

 

[gdcpony]

Out of curiosity, Besides Mikey, Dunkin and Idaho, everyone that has posted lives in warmer areas and doesn’t hibernate their spyders very long if at all. Living in the the snow belts and receiving 140-170 plus inches a year ( not this year of course) but colder on the average of 25 degrees all January 30’s in February, how does the Lithium hold up if put into hibernation in cold environment that long and not used? ( I’m talking November to mid late April) I have buddies who can’t leave their electric lawnmowers and chainsaws in the shed but need to have it heated all winter because the batteries are toast come spring even tendered. Heck, Dewalt suggests not leaving them out unused all winter in an unheated environment . I know these are a bit different as in size and battery packs but Just curious on your thoughts. I know this is an old thread but sort of relevant. How does Litho hold up over long winter hibernation, I’m talking 6 months worth not used and in or below 30’s most of the time? Yes electric cars do work all winter but they are being used not hibernating. If that is the case are we to take the battery out every winter and store inside? Seems to be a lot of fires on the news from lithium inside houses causing the fire.

Old post, but maybe this will help some people. From OH and stationed in CA. I have litium in most of my bikes. This includes two stored in OH for when I am home on leave. They get started when my daughter remembers to go to the storage unit and do so. Guess how often that is. Well after a year in cold temps and no starts my 2005 Sportster 1200R (carb'd so long start cycle) started right up this last Feb without issue after letting the key sit in the one position for 2 minutes. The lights got brighter to let me know the battery had warmed up. My daughter's little CBR250 did the same at the same time despite being put away in Sept. Hope that helps.

Now the the factory battery in my wifey's 2013 ST-L is going, I stumbled across this researching putting one in her Yike as well.

 

[vito1943]

One advantage of non-lithium batteries over lithium is that you will see signs of a weakening battery so that it can be replaced before it is a problem leaving you stranded. With a lithium battery, as I understand it, if it fails it happens without warning and that could be a problem if far from your garage. Also, lithium batteries are more likely to explode and burn than non-lithium batteries. And less expensive. For now, I will just stick with the type of battery that the vehicle comes with from the factory, replacing it when needed with a like battery.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

What I found doing a Google search about storing lithium batteries in temperatures below 32°F is that will shorten their life significantly. Recommendation is don't do it. 32°F is cited as a specific number, not an approximation. Of course storing, IMO, doesn't mean letting it sit for days or maybe a few weeks and then using it every once in awhile.

 

[troop]

One advantage of non-lithium batteries over lithium is that you will see signs of a weakening battery so that it can be replaced before it is a problem leaving you stranded. With a lithium battery, as I understand it, if it fails it happens without warning and that could be a problem if far from your garage. Also, lithium batteries are more likely to explode and burn than non-lithium batteries. And less expensive. For now, I will just stick with the type of battery that the vehicle comes with from the factory, replacing it when needed with a like battery.

Over the years, I had a couple lead acid batteries fail without warning, but only one AGM type.

 

[PMK]

2014 RTS, replaced the failed Yuasa battery with a Shorai LiFePo4 type lithium battery. No changes to the charging system.

Accomplished all verifications per the Shorai instructions. Spyders charging output was well within the Shorai required voltage range. When new, the Shorai battery was fully charged using the Shorai brand charger. Static voltage was monitored over several days for the installed resting battery. No issues of battery drain or voltage falling off below specified values.

After the initial full charge with the Shorai charger, I have not utilized a maintainer at all.

Engine starting is superb with excellent cranking rpm, and fires up more quickly than the Yuasa, any of them that had been installed.

The economics of purchasing another Yuasa vs buying the Shorai battery and Shorai charger was more expensive outright. However, even with the purchase of the Shorai charger, the expected Shorai battery life is expected to be the equivalent of several Yuasa batteries, and is about 30% less expensive over the 10 year expected life of the Shorai battery.