vibration solution

[Firefly]

I rather doubt that Bill's lugging it. I frequently cruise myself at RPM's as low as 3000 in 4th or 5th and trust me, it's smoooooth! The engineers chose the 990 because of it's good high end power as well as low end torque and driveability. Watch this promo video from early on when the Spyder was introduced. Start watching around the 2 minute mark where he talks about the power band. :f_spider:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MFs_GSOSPo

To each his own---- I keep it above 5,000 RPMs while cruising.

If you're running at 3,000 rpms in 4th or 5th you are really close to lugging-- not to mention you'll need to drop 2 gears to pass someone with any decent acceleration. If you're going 55-65 in 4th you can either pass at a moderate pace while still in 4th-- or drop to 3rd to blast by them (my preferred method of passing-- ). I just never like to keep that power more than 1 gear drop away......:thumbup:

 

[Spyderjuice]

I would be interested in buying a set if you plan to sell any of the 25. Let me know.

slturner@northstate,net

Juice

 

[WackyDan]

Also interested... Please PM me if you are going to sell some or produce more.

You may be on to something here. :2thumbs: Thank-you for being inventive.

 

[mofa52]

me as well, I am interested in your brackets.

 

[burg650]

I have had vibration from I got the bike, mostly at 4500 - 5500 and only when under load like going up a hill.

 

[bcspyder]

Ad me to the PM list if you have one available.

 

[WaltH]

This thread is a good example of why Spyderlovers is such an extraordinary creative resource. I would be lost in the wilderness without you guys.

 

[MMcc]

Vibration

Jim; I also would like to purchase a set of idlers. Had the belt adjusted all over the map from too tight to very slack. The vibration is still there, just at different RPM's. Mike McC

 

[HenryA]

Please put me on your list if you decide to sell the brackets
Wonderful idea. Just got done today driving myself crazy adjusting
the belt tension and alignment:2thumbs:

 

[pathfinderjoe]

add me

Please add to your list. Good luck with your patent. Great idea.:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Arthur---Mexico]

Belt tensioner

My logic tells me that using a spring loaded roller belt tensioner on the outside of the belt will cause the belt to have a shorter life. That is, if the roller actually is bending (for lack of a better word) the belt partially around it in the opposite direction the two sprockets bend it. Of course using a lager diameter roller will cause less damage. The idea is to flex the belt the least possible for a longer life. This holds true with roller chain drives also. If a toothed belt or roller chain could be only pulled in a straight line and not have to go around sheaves or sprockets they would never wear out. It's the flexing that kills them. An example:

I don't know the number of teeth in the driver and the driven sprockets on a Spyder but for discussion's sake let's say that the driver has 30 teeth and the rear driven sprocket has 60 teeth. It would be much cheaper to use a 15 tooth driver and a 30 tooth driven sprocket with the same belt the Spyder uses and maintain the same rotation ratio. But, using the smaller diameter sprockets would cause the belt to flex much more as it goes over each sprocket. The additional flexing would cut the life of the belt drastically. So the larger diameter sprockets are used to lower this wear.

I think the best way to get rid of belt slack is by adjusting the center distance of the belt's sprockets or pulleys if possible. On a Spyder or roller chain drive motorcycle it is realatively easy to adjust, tighten, the belt or chain.

The roller tensioner, described by that mysterious named person, seems very well thought out and made but it's doing a job not recommended on a Spyder's belt. There's the better and lower cost way to adjust the belt.
Arthur Cohen---Mexico City

 

[rider2554]

I wanted to share some pic's of my new "Dynamic Spring-loaded Belt Tensioner". I could not get rid of the vibration after lowering my belt tension, i could move it around the rpm range, but it was always there unless i really overtightened the belt, also had a lot of vibration at roll-on. All is good now.

Great Idea!! I'd like one of those too. Definitely put me on your list.

 

[NancysToy]

My logic tells me that using a spring loaded roller belt tensioner on the outside of the belt will cause the belt to have a shorter life. That is, if the roller actually is bending (for lack of a better word) the belt partially around it in the opposite direction the two sprockets bend it. Of course using a lager diameter roller will cause less damage. The idea is to flex the belt the least possible for a longer life. This holds true with roller chain drives also. If a toothed belt or roller chain could be only pulled in a straight line and not have to go around sheaves or sprockets they would never wear out. It's the flexing that kills them. An example:

I don't know the number of teeth in the driver and the driven sprockets on a Spyder but for discussion's sake let's say that the driver has 30 teeth and the rear driven sprocket has 60 teeth. It would be much cheaper to use a 15 tooth driver and a 30 tooth driven sprocket with the same belt the Spyder uses and maintain the same rotation ratio. But, using the smaller diameter sprockets would cause the belt to flex much more as it goes over each sprocket. The additional flexing would cut the life of the belt drastically. So the larger diameter sprockets are used to lower this wear.

I think the best way to get rid of belt slack is by adjusting the center distance of the belt's sprockets or pulleys if possible. On a Spyder or roller chain drive motorcycle it is realatively easy to adjust, tighten, the belt or chain.

The roller tensioner, described by that mysterious named person, seems very well thought out and made but it's doing a job not recommended on a Spyder's belt. There's the better and lower cost way to adjust the belt.
Arthur Cohen---Mexico City

:agree: Good, sound engineering principles presented here...and very well explained. There are additional factors in play here, though. The Spyder belt was originally kept taught enough to prevent most belt "snatch"...where the belt tends to follow the sprocket past the release point, then snaps back to the normal position, creating a ripple effect. This extreme tension proved to be detrimental to the rear wheel, sprocket, and output shaft bearings, the output shaft, and the front sprocket, some of which failed under the stress. The specified belt tension was repeatedly reduced to the point that the "snatch" can now be extreme, and cause noticeable vibration. This also tends to shorten belt life. With the exceedingly long travel of the Spyder belt, these issues are magnified.

A belt idler like this can allow use of lower belt tensions without the belt vibration and rippling. In that way it is beneficial. I doubt the deleterious effects by slightly bending the belt "backwards", will seriously shorten the belt life. The belt is quite robust. Even if it does, it may be worth the cost for some riders. It is easier to replace than the output shaft.

All things involved in engineering are compromises. What and where to compromise are usually up to the engineer, but in the case of the Spyder, the "Mod Squad" has taken over, and there are additional alternatives. Thanks to people like Capt. Jim and Arthur, we can make informed choices.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Logic

:agree: Good, sound engineering principles presented here...and very well explained. There are additional factors in play here, though. The Spyder belt was originally kept taught enough to prevent most belt "snatch"...where the belt tends to follow the sprocket past the release point, then snaps back to the normal position, creating a ripple effect. This extreme tension proved to be detrimental to the rear wheel, sprocket, and output shaft bearings, the output shaft, and the front sprocket, some of which failed under the stress. The specified belt tension was repeatedly reduced to the point that the "snatch" can now be extreme, and cause noticeable vibration. This also tends to shorten belt life. With the exceedingly long travel of the Spyder belt, these issues are magnified.

A belt idler like this can allow use of lower belt tensions without the belt vibration and rippling. In that way it is beneficial. I doubt the deleterious effects by slightly bending the belt "backwards", will seriously shorten the belt life. The belt is quite robust. Even if it does, it may be worth the cost for some riders. It is easier to replace than the output shaft.

All things involved in engineering are compromises. What and where to compromise are usually up to the engineer, but in the case of the Spyder, the "Mod Squad" has taken over, and there are additional alternatives. Thanks to people like Capt. Jim and Arthur, we can make informed choices.

:agree: That is some pretty good sound logic. A belt idler (on a long belt) seems to me to be something BRP left out of their design.

 

[capt.jim]

My logic tells me that using a spring loaded roller belt tensioner on the outside of the belt will cause the belt to have a shorter life. That is, if the roller actually is bending (for lack of a better word) the belt partially around it in the opposite direction the two sprockets bend it. Of course using a lager diameter roller will cause less damage. The idea is to flex the belt the least possible for a longer life. This holds true with roller chain drives also. If a toothed belt or roller chain could be only pulled in a straight line and not have to go around sheaves or sprockets they would never wear out. It's the flexing that kills them. An example:

I don't know the number of teeth in the driver and the driven sprockets on a Spyder but for discussion's sake let's say that the driver has 30 teeth and the rear driven sprocket has 60 teeth. It would be much cheaper to use a 15 tooth driver and a 30 tooth driven sprocket with the same belt the Spyder uses and maintain the same rotation ratio. But, using the smaller diameter sprockets would cause the belt to flex much more as it goes over each sprocket. The additional flexing would cut the life of the belt drastically. So the larger diameter sprockets are used to lower this wear.

I think the best way to get rid of belt slack is by adjusting the center distance of the belt's sprockets or pulleys if possible. On a Spyder or roller chain drive motorcycle it is realatively easy to adjust, tighten, the belt or chain.

The roller tensioner, described by that mysterious named person, seems very well thought out and made but it's doing a job not recommended on a Spyder's belt. There's the better and lower cost way to adjust the belt.
Arthur Cohen---Mexico City

Mysterious named person? what does that mean? there is very little backbend to the belt if you look at the pictures, and very little tension, -+ 10 lbs. Check out the Buell if you want to see some serious backbend and tension. I don't know what that "lower cost and better way" would be, the belt is too long and needs a little support in the middle. Instead of a 40" unsupported span, you will have 2- 20" spans. My thought is the tensioner is inexpensive considering the increased reliability and useful lifespan of the entire driveline, either you run a tightbelt and enjoy a smooth ride at the cost of your output shaft and rear bearings or you have a vibrating miserable ride while your fender brackets, etc., crack and fall off.

 

[Jornie1]

Back bending of the belt.....

Anyone ever noticed the belt back bending on the serpentine belt on all our automobiles.. Those things last for 100K - 150K miles. This is an excellent idea. Vibration will eventually take it's toll on other components in the drive line. Lets stamp out vibration. I want one of these things....Uh.. no I need two of them... Len

 

[wtwing15]

Thanks for the interest, the bracket i designed myself from a cardboard template, made it from 3/16" steel, waterjet cut and powdercoated, the tensioner is made by "Fenner Drives", model RT3000, Automotive quality, self lubricating and 0-42 lbs. super adjustable, which most are not. Fenner also sells one like the "ICE" Tensioner, which was a light duty and not as many features, it was cheaper in price and would work fine I'm sure, as there is only about 10lbs. of tension, but not as adjustable. The technician said the RT3000 was far superior if i wanted the best. As most aftermarket tensioners are frame mounted, there was no room, but luckily there was just enough room on the swingarm and the tensioner now follows the arc of travel, worked out even better. Fenner also sells the pulleys. Almost all of the pulley manufactures use the same 6203 bearings. I used a 3" x 1 3/8" composite flat belt idler pulley for 3 months, then went to a 2" x 1.5" for 2 months. I wanted to see how it would hold up compared to the 3", as it would be spinning 50% faster, and the spyder does have very high belt speed with that big sprocket. The 2" does make a very slight turbocharger sounding whistle i notice decelerating from around 40mph to 0, but i've ran it 3 hours straight at 85mph, no heat or anything, still like new. The 2" looks better asthetically. I haven't looked at the RT's swingarm to see if it would fit, if it's close, it might, the bracket is made somewhat adjustable so it can be lined up perfectly with the belt before it's tightened. Belts definately have a tight spot, idling with the rear tire off the ground, you can see the pulley jump a little when it hits the tight spot. It wasn't in my plans, but i got talked into patenting the bracket and making 25 sets, you never know.

Hi would it fit a RT would be interested in one if it does:2thumbs:

 

[Zanaguy]

je ne parle pas anglais et je serais intéresser de connaitre vos commentaire pour ceux qui on installer ce tensionneur car moi beaucoup de vibration vers 4000 tours. Si il a une personne qui parle anglais et français qui pourrais me renseigner sur ce tensionneur
Amicalement

 

[frank3]

je ne parle pas anglais et je serais intéresser de connaitre vos commentaire pour ceux qui on installer ce tensionneur car moi beaucoup de vibration vers 4000 tours. Si il a une personne qui parle anglais et français qui pourrais me renseigner sur ce tensionneur
Amicalement

Couldn't quite read all of that. could you repeat please.:roflblack:

 

[Firefly]

Couldn't quite read all of that. could you repeat please.:roflblack:

I do not speak English and I would be to interested in your commentaries for those that have installed this tensioner. I get a lot of vibrations about 4000 RPM's. If someone that speaks English and French could inform me on this tensioner I would appreciate it.