To Steve (BRPcare) about DESS issues

[larryd]

A couple of questions that I hope haven't been asked already. Has anyone with DESS # 4916, the latest module, have a DESS code come up? I've had mine replaced with #4190 and now I'm getting DESS error codes coming up, I'm going in next week to have it replaced with #4916. Also, would having my spare key and garage door remote in the glove box on my 2014 RT-SE6 possibly cause the error codes? Do all model Spyders have the same DESS module? I believe BlueNight had his replaced with #4916, have you had any problems or is it to early to tell?

Thanks everyone for all your help on this DESS problem, and thank you Deanna for your help also.

DERK

Mine has the 4916 module that is giving me the DESS error now...It was upgraded to the 4916 on Nov. 9, 15 and in PA you don't ride much in the winter...larryd

 

[larryd]

has any of the people that got stuck had to pay towing out of your pocket, or did BRP pick up the tab for it

My Spyder left me stranded last fall far away from home...I called road assistance and they wanted over $500-00 to take it back to the dealer...I left it in someone's driveway, got someone to come and pick me up, went home and got my truck and trailer and towed it back to the dealer all on my dime...I called roadside assistance and wanted paid for my costs and they said "take a hike"...larryd

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I wonder if installing a battery disconnect switch and never removing the key would help? Just tossing this out for thought.

I rather doubt it. The reason being the DESS module sends out an electrical signal to the antenna that energizes the chip in the key when the key is turned on. I'm pretty sure the signal and read process lasts only for a few seconds after turning on the key.

 

[HayRog]

I'm reading this thread with much interest and digesting as much as I can.
SO ... to maybe ensure that I don't get this code come up .... I throw all cell phones, tablets, spare chipped keys and anything RIF in the rear trunk
Question though, for my old mind, is a SPOT tracker in the glove compartment (2015 RT-L) likely to cause a problem? It hasn't yet .. but .. receives the same signal as the GPS I know.

Looks like it's all guess work at the moment anyway.

No codes thrown up yet so I'm not pissed off, but hell, I'm concerned.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Question though, for my old mind, is a SPOT tracker in the glove compartment (2015 RT-L) likely to cause a problem? It hasn't yet .. but .. receives the same signal as the GPS I know.

Looks like it's all guess work at the moment anyway.

Electronics that receive signals wouldn't cause a problem. It's devices that transmit that MAY cause a problem, and that would be only if they are transmitting while the DESS is interrogating the key.

Without knowing the frequency of the key RF it is guess work.

To my way of thinking I believe the root of the problem is the lack of strength of the radio waves coming from the key. That may be related to a too weak magnetic field that stimulates the key to produce its radio wave, or maybe a less than ideal frequency of the magnetic field. The chip in the 2014 and later keys is different than 2013 earlier and the entire scheme may just not be as robust as it used to be. It's conceivable to me that the ultimate solution may require a new chip in the key.

 

[Trbayth]

It's not on the CANbus. It plugs directly into the ECM.

So you said. Sorry I missed that part of your post.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

i can remember a buick park avenue i owned. it would lose the key chip all the time. buick kept trying to fix it, but it just kept happening. then one day i was stuck in Monroe NY and had to spend the night up there because everything was closed. the next day, i called a dealer and they came out and the car got started. when i got home, i went to a car stereo place i know, and asked him if i could eliminate it. he added a resistor and my problem was solved. I WONDER IF THIS CAN BE DONE ON THE SPYDER. i would do it just to have piece of mind of not being stuck somewhere. yea it is a theft deterrent, but that is why i carry insurance

That is a good thought. And as a mechanic I have used the resistor trick to start a GM product to get it into the shop to replace the key. The chip uses an electrical contact that creates a specific resistance. The Spyder however, uses a specific radio frequency generated from the key. Unless the radio unit is in the ignition itself.

I believe the key is not a contact, but a frequency chip. You might be able to duplicate the specific frequency, however the unit that is going bad is the reader from what Blueknight was saying. If that is the case it sounds like it's losing it's stored key frequencies, and if that is the case, a bypass probably wouldn't work.

What is needed is a complete bypass of the system, telling the ECM to start the bike, regardless of the frequency or not.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

READER ????

That is a good thought. And as a mechanic I have used the resistor trick to start a GM product to get it into the shop to replace the key. The chip uses an electrical contact that creates a specific resistance. The Spyder however, uses a specific radio frequency generated from the key. Unless the radio unit is in the ignition itself.

I believe the key is not a contact, but a frequency chip. You might be able to duplicate the specific frequency, however the unit that is going bad is the reader from what Blueknight was saying. If that is the case it sounds like it's losing it's stored key frequencies, and if that is the case, a bypass probably wouldn't work.

What is needed is a complete bypass of the system, telling the ECM to start the bike, regardless of the frequency or not.

Just to clarify......the MODULE isn't near the ignition switch ......it's at least 24 inches down......it's near the upper left corner of the Battery as you face the Battery...................I do know one thing for sure about this " MODULE " in the next production run of RT models ...the MODULE is going to be MOVED to a place much easier to access than where is is now ( requires FRUNK removal ) it's about 1" x 3/4" x 2" .....But you know BRP they had to hide it behind an immovable panel .....:lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: ......Mike :thumbup:

 

[garb55]

I have read every post on this thread
How many of you have cars or trucks with a chip in the key
The last five vehicles I have owned have had a chipped key
I have had garage door openers and many other types of electronic devices in all of them
including other chipped keys in same vehicles
never had a problem with any of them
that said ,I have not had a problem with my Spyder key yet
so if you think all these other devises are causing the problem you are all wrong
other manufacturers have had this type of system for years without a problem
If this problem is that wide spread on the Spyder then it is in a poorly designed system and until it is redesigned it will not help to keep your Spyder at the other end of the parking lot from all other vehicles
it will still fail
my 2 cents

 

[spyderCodes]

Okay, I'm going to try to explain something again.

All of the modern wonders of the age be it WI-fI, blue tooth or the swipe and pay at the pump generate waves.
Electro-Magnetic waves.
Ya can't see them but they are there.

There are a lot o curious properties associated with waves.


Waves can add to each other, subtract from each other and in general can beget waves of different frequencies.
This is what I think is happening with the DESS.

You drive into a gas stop, there are wi-fi , bluetooth and about a 1000 other devices blasting into either.
Your DESS RIFD receiver suddenly gets confused
Should it happen?
No
But it does happen
The combination of signals suddenly come together to tell your Spyder that the key is not valid.
Your Spyder is getting this info second hand.
Does this make it easier to excuse?
Probably not.

 

[Lew L]

Good thought, Don

Can youall imagine if HONDA had this problem! BMW or Mecerdes? Most any reputable company would have fixed this ASAP. I personally haven't had a DESS situation -----YET. I have three trips planned this summer and ----well I try not to think about this.

I know full well that most :spyder2:'s don't have this problem, but enough do.

CAN AM----Fix this.....................


DESS failure on a 2 week trip will cause:
Kaos

PS:
Remember the old Vettes that had to shield thier ignition system with a nice piece of cast Aluminum?????
Maybe CAN AM needs to look into RF shielding to solve this problem ( suggested my Mr. Codes)

 

[PaladinLV]

There are about 13 pages of posts regarding the DESS error!
Search for DESS and the OP of Deanne.

AJ

I have experienced the DESS code for the first time today on my 2014 RT-S with 3180 miles on it. After reading your information about the problem I think it could have been caused by my Nissan Rogue key fob that was in my pocket at the time. My question is: Is the replacement of the module and reprogramming of the keys a real fix or simply a feel good response to something that is functioning properly but not the way we would like? I am sure that my dealer will replace any and all parts associated if necessary but, I really don't want them to take the bike apart just to do something that isn't going to fix something that isn't really malfunctioning.

Thanks

See post #7 for additional info about my bike.

 

[rcturner]

There are about 13 pages of posts regarding the DESS error!
Search for DESS and the OP of Deanne.

AJ

You didn't read my original post in this thread. There is no question that there are plenty of posts on this issue. My thread was directed to BRPcare. (check the title) As yet, there has been no response. Most of the others posts here have been relating their experience and/or frustrations with the problem. All good information but, still no answer from BRP to my fairly simple questions. Based on my past results with them, there probably will never be a response. It was worth a try. :banghead:

 

[Ex Winger]

Just to clarify......the MODULE isn't near the ignition switch ......it's at least 24 inches down......it's near the upper left corner of the Battery as you face the Battery...................I do know one thing for sure about this " MODULE " in the next production run of RT models ...the MODULE is going to be MOVED to a place much easier to access than where is is now ( requires FRUNK removal ) it's about 1" x 3/4" x 2" .....But you know BRP they had to hide it behind an immovable panel .....:lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: ......Mike :thumbup:

I don,t think the module will be moved.It,s put in a place where it takes time to get at so you just can,t replace it and steal your ride.I know on some cars it,s behind the heater box and not nice to change.
Bill

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

MODULE

I don,t think the module will be moved.It,s put in a place where it takes time to get at so you just can,t replace it and steal your ride.I know on some cars it,s behind the heater box and not nice to change.
Bill

Dear Bill, If a ....THEIF ....wants to get to the MODULE....they aren't going to bother with the SHOP MANUAL method !!!!!.......Their method would take maybe 3 minutes and be messy, but they would get to your MODULE...My point was, a part like this needs to be more accessible UNLESS BRP FIXES IT .........Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

has any of the people that got stuck had to pay towing out of your pocket, or did BRP pick up the tab for it

Towing in excess of $200 not covered. Been there and done that.

 

[jcthorne]

Do many of the folks that have had the DESS error have the GPS unit? These emit a significant amount of RF noise and may be part of the problem. On the RT they are very near the ignition key. Just a theory.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

RFI - THEORY

Do many of the folks that have had the DESS error have the GPS unit? These emit a significant amount of RF noise and may be part of the problem. On the RT they are very near the ignition key. Just a theory.

.When my DESS FAILURE occurred I didn't have my other KEY...No Cell phone ....No IPod....No MP-3...absolutely nothing sending any electrical signal....No one near me .....I even rolled the Spyder away from the PUMP area.......So I think this Theory is like a bucket with a LOT of holes .........jmho......Mike :thumbup:

 

[WellsboroSpyder]

There are about 13 pages of posts regarding the DESS error!
Search for DESS and the OP of Deanne.

AJ

What I would like to know is how many individuals not pages as some people will post several times. As a victim of the 2013 issue it seemed that a lot of you were on BRP'S side. I'm not seeing those post on this issue. Could it be because now it might affect you? What I did learn from before is that I'm sure BRP is aware of it and will keep us informed as what to do.

 

[KJWEB]

My vote is for BRP to give the dealers the ability to disable it. If someone feels they need my Spyder more than I do, well that is why I pay for insurance.