To Steve (BRPcare) about DESS issues

[Jheck]

I also am in favor of shutting the D.E.S.S. Off on my Spyder. I am more worried about being stranded some where, than I am about the bike being stolen. I will sign any waiver to make this happen. Or you Steve can send me a BRP credit card to cover the amount for the tow that B.E.S.T. Warranty does not.

 

[waytootall67]

I also am in favor of shutting the D.E.S.S. Off on my Spyder. I am more worried about being stranded some where, than I am about the bike being stolen. I will sign any waiver to make this happen. Or you Steve can send me a BRP credit card to cover the amount for the tow that B.E.S.T. Warranty does not.

Yes it was $330.00 extra for our tow...115km was $530!

 

[Tango]

Steve. BRP need to disable the DESS feature. Plain an simple. This needs to be done until BRP finds a positive solution to the problem. Help us out. We want to be confident in our rides. To take them anywhere we want. With out worrying about getting the dreaded DESS failure. Give us the choice to make that decision! :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

 

[MikeT]

Can You Explain

Hi everyone,

We've been following this thread closely and I wanted to make sure I got the right information before posting here.
Here are the facts:

• The system works as follows: When the vehicle is started, the DESS module looks for a signal from the key, relayed to it via the antenna (which is just an extension of the module itself). Then, the DESS module lets the ECM know that the proper, authenticated key is present and matches the ECM, and the vehicle can be operated.
• There are different possible causes for a DESS error, and different ways for the error to manifest itself. For the vast majority of cases we've seen, neither the ignition, antenna or ECM needed to be replaced. For folks who did experience a DESS issue, replacing the DESS module itself to the latest part number is the appropriate fix.
• If, somehow, you've had a DESS failure after having the DESS module replaced to the newest part number (that occurred more than once, was not due to interference, etc), it could point to an error in one of the other aforementioned systems. Your dealer can diagnose it for you, look up any error codes and if needed our techs will assist them.
• For obvious reasons, BRP doesn't recommend nor support disabling of the DESS system.

Incorrect. If I don't respond right away, it's to make sure I have all the facts straight so that I don't provide any misinformation.

I emailed BRP Customer Support 2 weeks ago with my year, make, model, VIN and mileage. I inquired about the DESS issue, and asked if my RT Limited might have been assembled with faulty components. I also asked what the probability is that we might be a victim of this issue. The answer I received contained:
1. No admission of a problem. Without that
2. There was no type of solution given, and
3. No indication of what the probability is that our Spyder could be affected.
Why is BRP so reluctant to be transparent?????
Confused
Mike
Their bottom line was " IF there's any recalls, the customers and the dealers will be informed."

 

[PaladinLV]

It does IF you also replace the ignition switch!!!!

The sad part is BRP KNOWS THIS but for some reason is jerking off the DEALERS
OR
The dealers are not insisting both be replaced.

AJ

If you go to this thread and read post #360 and a few after that it appears that the new 710004916 DESS module is not correcting the issue.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/page15&highlight=dess

 

[PaladinLV]

N O!
I is not a definitive fix.
It may work, it may not work, if it works once it may not work twice, if it works twice it still may fail the third time.

AJ

I originally started this thread with a fairly simple question addressed to you. 99% of what is posted here has nothing to do with what I wanted to know about clearing the error. I apologize for the other stuff that has accumulated. My question has to do with the comment about cycling the ignition 4 or 5 times when the error is active on the screen. Does this clear the system and allow it to reinitialize ?

Thanks for your time.

 

[PaladinLV]

Unfortunately, the statements FAIL the Smell Test in the face of REALITY.

Facts:
The vast MAJORITY of those on THIS site that own a 2015 RT and have had ONLY the DESS module fail have CONTINUED to experience DESS FAILURES.
The VAST MAJORITY of those on this site that own a 2014 RT and have had BOTH the DESS Module AND the IGNITION replaced no longer experienced the problem.
The VAST MAJORITY of those on THIS site that own a 2014 RT that had only the DESS module replaced but did not work and THEN had either BOTH the DESS Module and the Ignition replaced or the ignition additionally replaced also no longer experienced the problem.

SO - IF it is indeed the DESS module and the Ignition has no effect then BRP is negligent in accepting slip-shod modules from their sub-contractor and negligent in their QC practices and on-site inspections of their sub-contractors.

Fact:
If outside electromagnetic interference is a possible problem then once again, BRP is at fault for faulty design/engineering.

Instead of going thru this RIDICULOUS process, one would think that SMART MONEY and BRP MANAGEMENT would give the OWNER the OPTION of disabling the DESS!
That's what an UNDERSTANDING company, a company that VALUES their customers would do.

For obvious REASONS?

Sorry NOT OBVIOUS to me! My trike, my business, my chances. If someone is going to steal it, BRPs electronic design is NOT going to deter them.

You want to get in the "law enforcement" business. You think motorcycle cop is going to up with this even once?
OH that's right their bikes have INSTANT ON! Wonder how many of those trikes will be stolen?

So since it is DOABLE, WHY don't we have that option?

Of course maybe all those people that came on this site to talk about their DESS error experience are lying, but you and I both know that is not the case.

Balls in your court.


AJ

Hi everyone,

We've been following this thread closely and I wanted to make sure I got the right information before posting here.
Here are the facts:

• The system works as follows: When the vehicle is started, the DESS module looks for a signal from the key, relayed to it via the antenna (which is just an extension of the module itself). Then, the DESS module lets the ECM know that the proper, authenticated key is present and matches the ECM, and the vehicle can be operated.
• There are different possible causes for a DESS error, and different ways for the error to manifest itself. For the vast majority of cases we've seen, neither the ignition, antenna or ECM needed to be replaced. For folks who did experience a DESS issue, replacing the DESS module itself to the latest part number is the appropriate fix.
• If, somehow, you've had a DESS failure after having the DESS module replaced to the newest part number (that occurred more than once, was not due to interference, etc), it could point to an error in one of the other aforementioned systems. Your dealer can diagnose it for you, look up any error codes and if needed our techs will assist them.
• For obvious reasons, BRP doesn't recommend nor support disabling of the DESS system.

Incorrect. If I don't respond right away, it's to make sure I have all the facts straight so that I don't provide any misinformation.

 

[pitzerwm]

My understanding that Dealers do no have the megatech license for the BUDS system. Without that license they can not disable the DESS. I'm pretty sure that they aren't going to give that to any dealer even if the dealer wanted it. My understanding is that the company that actually created the BUDS system is not part of BRP, and they sell the system and licenses to other people. I bought the system so I wouldn't be at the mercy of a bad dealer. As I have stated above, I have the Megatech license and you can disable the DESS. My bike is a 2014 with 16K miles on it. I haven't decided to disable mine yet.

IMO BRP has not really addressed this issue and based on what Steve is saying they never will. Just like the 2013 heat issue blame the victim, since no one is dying the government probably won't step in. The fact that Mike T got nothing from BRP proves to me that there won't be any help other than replacing parts when they have to. Since the 2013's DESS never had an issue and police bikes will never have the problem shows that if they really wanted to fix it, they could. Sure it would cost a few bucks, but as long as they have no competition there is nothing to motivate them to do something.

I doubt if the CEO of BRP will show up at the 10 year thing next year. Just in the off chance he would show up I won't be going because I would probably end up in a Canadian jail.

 

[pitzerwm]

Just a thought, but no real reverse :banghead:

 

[Ex-Rocket]

Just a thought, but no real reverse :banghead:

Sorry, but that is one ugly bike. :yikes::yikes::yikes: The front end needs a lot of work to even get to being nice to look at.opcorn:opcorn:

 

[larryd]

I want my DESS turned OFF

Steve, I'm larryd and I'm on my fourth go around on this DESS failure problem....I have the latest and greates module (4916) I WOULD LIKE MINE TURNED OFF...I will sign a waver...MAKE IT HAPPEN...THANK YOU, larryd

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Steve, I'm larryd and I'm on my fourth go around on this DESS failure problem....I have the latest and greates module (4916) I WOULD LIKE MINE TURNED OFF...I will sign a waver...MAKE IT HAPPEN...THANK YOU, larryd

With repeated failures like you're having I really think there is something else at play, not the DESS module. But what? That is the mystery. Try to think if there is anything common about the times you had the failure, like always in your garage or at a particular parking lot, or anything like that. I also wonder if there is some sort of loose electrical connection buried somewhere in your Spyder that is causing an electrical spike that's causing the error. What about the battery? Maybe there is something weird going on with it. Does it happen only when the Spyder is hot, or cold? Maybe there is some sort of thermal affect somewhere. Has the dealer changed out the ECM? If not, it may be time to do that.

All these are stabs in the dark and finding the cause can easily cause you to want to tear your hair out. One huge problem with today's dealer technicians, cars, Spyders, televisions, you name it, is their lack of knowledge, expertise, and reasoning ability to perform out of the box trouble shooting. The audio system in my 2005 Nissan Maxima is totally dead anytime it sits out overnight in temps below 32°. The dealer was not smart enough to do anything but change out components, and then only inside the shop. I never could get them to work on the car in the cold so they would stand a better chance of figuring out what was changing in the cold. Nissan finally said I was going to just have to live with it.

You said earlier that BRP says it's your fault. I can understand why you feel that is their position, but I really think you may be misreading their response. Whatever the cause it's not your fault. But it very well may an oddball fault in your Spyder, or something oddball about where you live, or something like that. In that case it's not your fault, but it may be a one off problem that only your machine has.

Turning the DESS off most likely will not solve the problem, but it very well may prevent the problem from interfering with start up.