To Steve (BRPcare) about DESS issues

[Jheck]

I sent this thead link to BRP care. Hoping to get some response. We will see. I will post any response from them about this problem.

 

[WEB-WVR]

I sent this thead link to BRP care. Hoping to get some response. We will see. I will post any response from them about this problem.

Thanks... :thumbup: .... it will be interesting to see what they say.

Thanks to all those that educated me and others on what DESS does. :bowdown:

 

[waytootall67]

Seems like that would be covered by the warranty, here in the States. Doesn't yours? Of course, you'd have to call the number on your warranty card, not just any towing service.

In fairness to brp the best warranty covered the first $200, but we still need to get it the dealership.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Done!!
The Chipped key had to almost be touching the dummy key in the switch, for the bike to start...

I tried having the tech enter a new key into the ECM with BUDS with a non-chip in the ignition and the new key right against it. Didn't work. Had to put the new key into the ignition before BUDS could see it. Obviously the signal from key to antenna is pretty weak. Both keys were cut.

 

[PMK]

In convenience to us as owners, loss of profits to BRP, loss of repeat customers over time and the lack of good customer service at all levels will take it's toll if and when Honda or another manufacturer releases their version of a trike.

Seems you can have almost the worst machine, but good customer service can help overcome the problems. The best manufactured or best performing machine with poor customer service will always have weakness.

If you were buying a car, truck, or motorcycle and the dealer told you as they were selling it to you that the machine can randomly fail to start at any time, anywhere, and we rally do not have a proper fix for it. So we simply replace a few parts and when it fails again, replace those same parts, but don't worry, it's not that bad since we can keep fixing it as long as you are under warranty and don't mind waiting a couple weeks each time while we have the machine apart. Would you have purchased the vehicle?

Maybe this DESS failure was supposed to arrive in 2013 as an inferno safety device.

Found the definition of BRP. Business Recovery Plan.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/business-recovery-planning-BRP.html

So much of the Can Am Spyder is starting to retrace footsteps of the Can Am motorcycle and it's demise from the 70's and early 80's. The Canadians have gotten our money, maybe they are smarter than we think and have no intentions to fix an of it.

 

[MikeT]

2013 All Over Again

The lack of ownership of this DESS issue by BRP is a road travelled before by the owners of 2013 Spyders with their heat/fire problems. BRP's unwillingness to:
1. Acknowledge the existance of a problem, for years and
2. Engineer a real solution until being forced to by the the government is well documented on this forum.
I moved to a Spyder RTL 14 months ago from a Goldwing trike because of medical issues. So far, so good. My wife and I have not yet been stranded by this issue. I'm now wondering after repeated post, the not if; but when question. Very disconcerting. Coming from a research background, one of the major tenants is: Repeating results mean something, good or bad. As I look back, the issues with the 2013-2016 Spyders all revolve around the new frame/body design, and all that goes with it. Unlike 2013 the aftermarket can not come to our rescue of an electrical/computer issue like the heat issue. We need BRP to "wake up and smell the roses" sooner than later, and come up with the definative solution for the ever increasing DESS issue. So far the band aids that have been employed have not eliminated this problem.
How BRP can continue to turn a deaf ear to their '14-'16 USA consumers, is surprising considering what happened to them with the 2013s. Especially with @least 2 big name motorcycle manufacturers looking to capitalize on the popularity of the Spyder design. One thing that BRP should understand is that reliability trumps everything for the mc/trike rider, and that makes them a fickle consumer.

 

[wyliec]

If your state has a lemon law for motorccycles, why go thru all the headaches of continually taking the spyder back to have parts replaced for the same issue, which is never really fixed?

 

[jcthorne]

The ability to disable DESS is not in the dealer version of BUDS. It is an advertised extra feature of aftermarket versions. So you can't ask your dealer to do it because they can't. BRP has to give them that ability.

The ability to disable DESS is in my All Dealer licence version of BUDS. I do not have the MasterTech version. I suppose I assumed that the dealers have the same as what I do. Still, the function exists in the software so if BRP wanted to have dealers offer this service as a stop gap while they re-engineer the system to work correctly, they could do so with a software version update to the dealers along with a tech bulletin giving instructions on how to do it.

 

[PMK]

The ability to disable DESS is in my All Dealer licence version of BUDS. I do not have the MasterTech version. I suppose I assumed that the dealers have the same as what I do. Still, the function exists in the software so if BRP wanted to have dealers offer this service as a stop gap while they re-engineer the system to work correctly, they could do so with a software version update to the dealers along with a tech bulletin giving instructions on how to do it.

This is correct. The supplier of BUDs to BRP has those features available in the program, but that portion of the program is not within the dealers available access.

Honestly though, BRP just needs to step up, higher some professionals and get it resolved correctly.

 

[vided]

30k for something with a problem like this DESS bs is totally unacceptable.
the explanation that another chipped thingie is nearby sounds like :cus:
maybe this is why not many spyders get stolen.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

THE D.E.S.S. - ISSUE AND BRP

The lack of ownership of this DESS issue by BRP is a road travelled before by the owners of 2013 Spyders with their heat/fire problems. BRP's unwillingness to:
1. Acknowledge the existance of a problem, for years and
2. Engineer a real solution until being forced to by the the government is well documented on this forum.
I moved to a Spyder RTL 14 months ago from a Goldwing trike because of medical issues. So far, so good. My wife and I have not yet been stranded by this issue. I'm now wondering after repeated post, the not if; but when question. Very disconcerting. Coming from a research background, one of the major tenants is: Repeating results mean something, good or bad. As I look back, the issues with the 2013-2016 Spyders all revolve around the new frame/body design, and all that goes with it. Unlike 2013 the aftermarket can not come to our rescue of an electrical/computer issue like the heat issue. We need BRP to "wake up and smell the roses" sooner than later, and come up with the definative solution for the ever increasing DESS issue. So far the band aids that have been employed have not eliminated this problem.
How BRP can continue to turn a deaf ear to their '14-'16 USA consumers, is surprising considering what happened to them with the 2013s. Especially with @least 2 big name motorcycle manufacturers looking to capitalize on the popularity of the Spyder design. One thing that BRP should understand is that reliability trumps everything for the mc/trike rider, and that makes them a fickle consumer.

.I agree with you 110% on this......Yes I got my Module changed at Spyderfest this year but I was willing to take my FRUNK off ....so they would take the 10 minutes to re-place it :clap::clap::clap:....and I am grateful it was done......However I'm not STUPID ..... and I don't believe I won't be stranded somewhere else at some other time because this MODULE also FAILED .......The problem is " BRP HAS THEIR HEADS SO FAR UP THEIR * SSES " on this, the US Govt. may have to AGAIN put BRP's feet to the FIRE to get them to FIX IT ......And if Honda, Yamaha, or Kawasaki ever go after BRP's Spyder market.........They won't be able to sell Spyder's at half what they are selling now.............and Yep this is JMHO......Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

This is correct. The supplier of BUDs to BRP has those features available in the program, but that portion of the program is not within the dealers available access.

Honestly though, BRP just needs to step up, higher some professionals and get it resolved correctly.

Do you know the specifics of how to use the function? I have not been willing to play with it on the wifes bike or mine and certainly not on a customer's bike for fear of things not working again. It LOOKS like a simple toggle on/off function. I would need a non-chipped key to test it if I did implement it. Just have no information on it.

 

[CharlieIndia]

Doesn't seem that Steve is listening, if he is he's not answering!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[rcturner]

Done!!
The Chipped key had to almost be touching the dummy key in the switch, for the bike to start...

Maybe this is doing more to support BRP's claim than we realize. They are saying that an external source might be confusing the Spyder DESS. In my case, the failure occurred when I had my FOB for my Nissan in my pocket. This FOB probably has much more power than the encoded information traveling between the Spyder key and module. My FOB has to let the car know that it is me trying to get into it without the use of keys. It also needs to know that it is me when I want to start it. Again, no keys involved. It also needs to know if I left the keys someplace in the car when I try to lock it. All of the Nissan functions are accomplished with the FOB at a distance of two to several feet from the sensor. Maybe they are on to something.

 

[billybovine]

Maybe this is doing more to support BRP's claim than we realize. They are saying that an external source might be confusing the Spyder DESS. In my case, the failure occurred when I had my FOB for my Nissan in my pocket. This FOB probably has much more power than the encoded information traveling between the Spyder key and module. My FOB has to let the car know that it is me trying to get into it without the use of keys. It also needs to know that it is me when I want to start it. Again, no keys involved. It also needs to know if I left the keys someplace in the car when I try to lock it. All of the Nissan functions are accomplished with the FOB at a distance of two to several feet from the sensor. Maybe they are on to something.

Quote from BRPCare Steve. However, if there is another Spyder (or even another chipped vehicle) key from a different unit within arm's length to the ignition, it is possible that the module picks up that signal instead of the working key's signal, and decides that the signal is not the right one. End quote.

Now I am very confident that a Spyder key or any other key with a passive transponder, is not a factor unless it is within an inch of the ignition switch. I think BRPCare Steve is in error on that.

You bring up a good point. Does a key or fob with an active transponder with much more range interfere with the communication between the DESS and key. I suspect not because the technology is a little different. But I am not sure. Why don't you give it a try. Put your active fob right next to the ignition switch of the Spyder. Then try it out and see if it interferes or not. If it does at that range it may farther away. If it does not at that extreme close range. We can assume not farther away.

 

[spyderCodes]

The problem is really this.
We are now awash with electromagnetic waves from hundreds or even thousands of sources that can cause harmonics and combine with other signals creating new unintended frequencies that can fool such circuits.

 

[larryd]

DESS round 4 for me

I'm on my forth DESS failure as of Monday May 2nd...My dealer told me today that the BRP factory tech he is dealing with said the DESS cannot be turned off...They ask me about RFI from other keys, cell phone and LED lights or anything else close to the ign. switch...But the bottom line is, STILL NO FIX...I don't think they have a clue as how to fix their over engineered in problem...larryd

 

[ndspyderlover]

I have experienced the DESS code for the first time today on my 2014 RT-S with 3180 miles on it. After reading your information about the problem I think it could have been caused by my Nissan Rogue key fob that was in my pocket at the time. My question is: Is the replacement of the module and reprogramming of the keys a real fix or simply a feel good response to something that is functioning properly but not the way we would like? I am sure that my dealer will replace any and all parts associated if necessary but, I really don't want them to take the bike apart just to do something that isn't going to fix something that isn't really malfunctioning.

Thanks

See post #7 for additional info about my bike.

I had the recall taken care of and the dess code came on three times since. I am not very comfortable turning the spyder off away from my garage. this is really frustrating a disheartening.

 

[Jheck]

Quote from BRPCare Steve. However, if there is another Spyder (or even another chipped vehicle) key from a different unit within arm's length to the ignition, it is possible that the module picks up that signal instead of the working key's signal, and decides that the signal is not the right one. End quote.

The key phrase here is " it is possible", translated " we don't know":dontknow:. So let's make it possible for the dealers to shut down this system until you do know.:banghead::banghead: There's no liability here, it a security system, The owner signs a waiver stating that this is being done at the owners request. Owner takes full responsibility for the vehicle. This protects BRP and the dealer
of any liability if the bike is stolen. Then when they have redesigned the system to where it works it can be turned on agin. The owners are happy, their not inconvenienced when it shuts down, dealers are happy cause owners aren't Bitchin at them, BRP's happy cause they have owned up to the fact and have taken responsibility for putting a crappy system in a other wise stellar motorcycle, there by instilling confidence in their customers that this is actually being taken care of. Its win,win.:yes::yes:I know ,I know it's just a pipe dream. But not a bad one.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If you haven't done so you need to submit your ? via their support page. BRP monitors posts here but does not normally respond here nor monitor PMs.

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