steve from brp answered

[pitzerwm]

OK, I will acknowledge that some ryders have had DESS issues that were caused by defective DESS modules. But try to understand BRP's dilemma. If 1% of all units have a DESS failure, and those failures have different underlying root causes, it can be extremely difficult to ferret out what is causing the problem. Add to that failures caused by external factors, probably all of which are different, and which are difficult, if not impossible, to reproduce how are BRP engineers going to know what to look for?

I might agree if BRP's record on the 2013 heat issue, their "fix" for the windshield arm and all of the other issues that they have never addressed weren't there.

 

[Jheck]

this is what steve said

Hi everyone,

We've been following this thread closely and I wanted to make sure I got the right information before posting here.
Here are the facts:

• The system works as follows: When the vehicle is started, the DESS module looks for a signal from the key, relayed to it via the antenna (which is just an extension of the module itself). Then, the DESS module lets the ECM know that the proper, authenticated key is present and matches the ECM, and the vehicle can be operated.
• There are different possible causes for a DESS error, and different ways for the error to manifest itself. For the vast majority of cases we've seen, neither the ignition, antenna or ECM needed to be replaced. For folks who did experience a DESS issue, replacing the DESS module itself to the latest part number is the appropriate fix.
• If, somehow, you've had a DESS failure after having the DESS module replaced to the newest part number (that occurred more than once, was not due to interference, etc), it could point to an error in one of the other aforementioned systems. Your dealer can diagnose it for you, look up any error codes and if needed our techs will assist them.
• For obvious reasons, BRP doesn't recommend nor support disabling of the DESS system.

Steve can't answer unless the higher ups give him something to say, and I'm sure he is reading what is posted on SL's, and relaying it on.


Incorrect. If I don't respond right away, it's to make sure I have all the facts straight so that I don't provide any misinformation.

"For obvious reasons, BRP doesn't recommend nor support disabling of the DESS system." Steve I would like to ask what "for obvious reasons" means?:dontknow: I can't understand why BRP would be so adverse to shutting off this defective system? Is it because it would affect other systems? Both Indian and HD have a system that allows the owner to bypass it if their is a problem. I was discussing this with an Indian dealer in Niles OH. And he said " if they allowed their customers to be stranded beside the road, that it would be bad for business "
I would really like an answer to this question, so I could understand BRP's reasoning.

 

[Bob Denman]

Let's face it:
If you think that this...

is a serious problem...

You've obviously never had the fun of THIS! :yikes:

Being stranded, can come in many different flavors, and while none of them are any fun: some of them are WAY worse than others... nojoke

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Yep, it's like what the Rabbi asked his congregant, "Is it a problem, or is it an inconvenience?" A problem is when you have a heart attack. It's an inconvenience when you break your leg.

 

[2dogs]

After reading ALL the DESS postings

I noticed this occurrence. When I carry my wife's keyless entry fob for her car in my pocket, I get a slightly (1/2 to 1 second) longer hesitation when starting my spyder. I have a 14 RTS SE6 and my wife's car is a new Jeep Grand Cherokee. The darn car is a spaceship compared other cars we've owned. When I'm not carrying her car's key fob I notice the spyder starts almost instantly without that one second stumble before it catches on and starts up. After reading Steve's answer to this issue I can't help but think there's a possible interference from my wife's key fob when my spyder is trying to read its own key. Has anyone else had a similar experience? By the way, I've never had the DESS show up on my spyder. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones too.

 

[MikeT]

You've obviously never had the fun of THIS! :yikes:

Who's Inferno Spyder is this???? Anybody we know????? Were they @Spyderfest 2016??????

 

[JayBros]

Who knows - maybe a Spyderfest is in my future.

-Bill

Add it to your bucket list. It would be a leisurely two day ride with an overnight in Clarksville, TN.

 

[GeorgiaBill]

Hope to see you...

... at the next one.

It's on my bucket list.

-Bill

Add it to your bucket list. It would be a leisurely two day ride with an overnight in Clarksville, TN.

 

[PW2013STL]

While reading this I was thinking it happens to a few, but no one I know has had this happen to them.
Well guess what happened to me Friday while on a group ride :banghead:

We had stopped at this little bar (no I do not drink adult beverages when I ride, or drive) and one of members had just got a 2015 red RT-S and was asking me if I had any issues. I told him only minor ones.
So when we all went to take off I got the DESS screen.
I waited 10 min and tried to start it, but got the same DESS. I tried 30 min latter with the same results.

Called my Dealer, but he was unable to come get me so I was going to have AAA come out to get me and bring the Spyder to them. I ordered some food and chatted with the patrons of the bar and waited for the truck. After an hour I went out to make sure the parking brake would release and no DESS screen and it started right up.

No further problems the rest of the trip, but I will ask my dealer to replace the module.

 

[ndspyderlover]

Here's a straight answer. DESS = Digital Electronic Security System. This system reads the chip in your key for authentication before it lets you or a thief drive off with it. This system has been failing lately on some of the newer Spyders. It usually means a tow to a dealer. There is no warning when it can happen. Very frustrating and costly to those involved.

I got the dess code yesterday again for the fifth time. This time I called roadside assistance. When they arrived it started right up. I am afraid to go anywhere and turn it off . This is very maddening. I dont know what to do anymore. This is my third spyder

 

[Bob Denman]

Tell them that you took a picture of it, and you want that module replaced! :gaah:

See: Here's your proof!

 

[Godlover]

On Saturday I read through most of the threads on this issue thinking a few people seem to be making s big deal out of the problem. On Sunday I was 60 miles from home and get plagued with the bad key code. I have 660 miles on my 3 week old F3. I was stranded for 3 hours waiting for a tow truck and ended up having to pay $200 above the warranty to get towed 50 miles home. Now I need to get it to my dealer who doesn't open until Tuesday. I think this effects more Spyders than people realize.

 

[jtpollock]

DESS

Morning all I noticed that a majority of the folks that have responded are RT ryders I have an RS-S and I hade a problem within two months of my purchase OK it was covered under the warranty.
Earlier this year I had the problem again I asked BRP for a little help and was told to bad I was out of Warranty and the entire cost was on me. that left a sour taste in my mouth. I am one of CAN-AM's
biggest fans and happy to tell anyone that asks about my Spyder, but after this last problem I just tell then to check out the web sit and make up there own mind. :banghead: jtpollock
edit
I have never let the problems keep me from riding I have gotten over 55,000 miles on the Spyder and as long as it runs I will ride it...

 

[larryd]

Morning all I noticed that a majority of the folks that have responded are RT ryders I have an RS-S and I hade a problem within two months of my purchase OK it was covered under the warranty.
Earlier this year I had the problem again I asked BRP for a little help and was told to bad I was out of Warranty and the entire cost was on me. that left a sour taste in my mouth. I am one of CAN-AM's
biggest fans and happy to tell anyone that asks about my Spyder, but after this last problem I just tell then to check out the web sit and make up there own mind. :banghead: jtpollock
edit
I have never let the problems keep me from riding I have gotten over 55,000 miles on the Spyder and as long as it runs I will ride it...

That's is what they are doing with all of us with the 2014's with all the DESS problems...Treading water, then when we're out of warranty throw us under the bus...That is how BIG NON caring corporations treat their customers...

The proper thing to do would be allow the dealers to turn off the DESS until a proper fix can be found and available...But, BRP says, their is not a problem when you have the latest and greatest module...WRONG...Just ask us who still have the problem with the latest and greatest..larryd

 

[jtpollock]

. So JT to be clear you have 2012 RSS and had the D.E.S.S. module issue ....TWICE ...So far you are the only one I have heard of with a pre-14 module with this issue ........I'm very sorry and think BRP should have given you consideration because this PART is a BIG problem for so many........jmho.........Mike.....:thumbup:

Could not agree more jtpollock

 

[2dogs]

Food for thought on the DESS

I live near a law firm owned by a couple of aggressive attorneys who only take on cases they can win, often with no cost to their client. Because I know one of the individuals who is also amotorcycle owner, I spoke to him about BRP's DESS issues. In short, I was told that if someone were to become physically injured because of being stranded as the result of a known and preventable cause; they'd be very interested in looking into the matter. As someone else mentioned on this site, BRP seems to be sitting on the issue balancing the cost of fixing the problem, even if it was temporary, against the costs of civil judgments. Time will only tell which way they will go.

 

[pitzerwm]

IMO BRP is counting on the "Quit being a crybaby, most of us haven't a problem, BRP is great" people to keep the unhappiness sentiment low. Since we don't have an actual count of sold bikes and this particular rate of failure, the "BRP is great" people can keep it up.

Sure a lot of the DESS posts are from people that own the bike and even if subconsciously are worried about it happening to them, especially away from home. The other reality is that there have been a number of "little" issues with different year's bikes that weren't life threatening, but costly in time, money and stress. Denial that there is an issue. Of course, the 2013 heat issue wasn't little, which BRP still blame on the victims, but were forced to repair. Ignore that a few burned up, boiling gas in the tank!!! "Totally normal" The bottom line is BRP is using Bill Clinton's mantra, "deny, deny, deny". "Quit being a crybaby, you didn't die and they replaced the parts". "So your trip was messed up, grow up, ***** happens".

Unless BRP extends the warranty on this problem, it will continue to replace, deny, until out of warranty.

Honda had some minor thing with their transmissions in 2003, they immediately recalled it, replaced a part and extended the warranty on it to 100K miles, no time restriction. That is the way to handle an issue.

 

[Bob Denman]

I'm sort of glad that you mentioned Honda; Did you forget about cracked frames, Brake fires, burnt-out stators, and riveted wheels coming apart? :shocked:
That's just on the GoldWings!
EVERY manufacturer has been hit with Quality Control bugs...
It's not right
AND...
It doesn't excuse anything

But it happens! :banghead:
You have two choices as a consumer:
Buy from them
Buy from somebody else

Well... a third choice:
Decline to play at all!

Your choice! What are you going to do? :dontknow:

 

[Sam Mac]

For me I'll just ride it, if it shoots craps I'll deal with it. Doubt that I'll ever buy another BRP product. Not about to worry about it. Life goes on. :thumbup:

One thing I won't do is spend $$$ for aftermarket goodies. People like the sponsors may want to think about lost sales. They also may wish to put some pressure on BRP. just my 2 cents. :cus:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

One thing I won't do is spend $$$ for aftermarket goodies. People like the sponsors may want to think about lost sales. They also may wish to put some pressure on BRP. just my 2 cents. :cus:

I hate to tell you this, but I believe you seriously over estimate the extent and financial impact of Spyder owners who share your unhappiness.