ST with low Oil and shuddering on take-off - is this normal? Other ideas?

[Jim's_Spyder]

I have been looking through the forum posts. We have a 2013 Spyder ST Limited. Got it out for the first time this year. We don't ride it a lot, 7500 miles in 10 years. Today I started it up and pulled it out of the shop and the Brake Failure light was on again. Happens all the time, the brakes work great and stop it with no issues. I have read the reset method and I plan on trying that.
The newest issue is it always shuddered a little bit taking off, now it shakes really bad. I can't find a direct answer in the previous questions.
It looks like either dirty or being low on oil may cause this issue, is that a correct statement? If not any idea what would cause shuttering and noise on takeoff?

 

[Peter Aawen]

If you've got the Brembo Brakes on your ST, & if it's a 2013 it should have them; then there's gotta be something odd going on with your brakes OR your Park Brake if the Dash Brake light stays on after releasing the Park brake. Is that all that's happening? Does the light flash, or stay on solidly? For how long?? Do you get to hear the beeper sounding too? Have you checked the pads for wear, especially the rear pads?? Have you checked that the Park Brake Actuator (under the RHS tupperware just above the rider's foot peg/plate) is working properly :dontknow: Sorry about all the questions, but we need more detail to really have any chance of truly helping. That brake reset process might help, but only if it's causing or at least involved in the problem, and it could be a lot of other things beside that?? :dontknow:

As for the shuddering, YES, low oil can & will make any shuddering on take-off worse, but you should check the level & top up the oil if necessary AFTER each ride (preferably more than 30 minutes of ride time above idle/low revs & some at Hwy speeds! ) so it should never be too low when you start up & ride off again, and DO NOT OVER-FILL it either, cos that can do nasty things including making it shudder & knock! :lecturef_smilie:

Another thing that you should really address - these Spyder things REALLY don't like sitting around unused - a Spyder that's done only 7500 miles in 10 years is potentially a shed-load of problems just waiting to occur!! Are you sure the 'shuddering' isn't coming from flat spots on the tires?? And have you replaced the tires? If they're still the original OE Spec Kendas, they're probably DOUBLY UNSAFE to ride on at any speed now; and even if they're a/mkt replacements that are that old, they're possibly still beyond their 'safe to use' age (even if the tread depth looks fine!) & need to be carefully inspected by a competent tire technician before riding! Then there's all the other Rubber/plastic things & oil/fuel etc that hates juuust sitting & aging; vacuum hoses can age & crack, causing running issues; brake fluid absorbs water & turns to corrosive sludge; fuel can go off & form varnish, destroying fuel pumps & injectors if used; belts can harden in the areas that've been exposed to UV & not elsewhere, causing bumps & thumps & failures when they eventually do get used; and the list goes on!! :shocked: If you haven't looked at all these things, and basically given the Spyder a very thorough going over to make sure it's safe to ride, then the shuddering might be the least of your worries!! :yikes:

It sounds to me like you either need to find someone nearby who can regularly take your Spyder out for a run to keep it in good running order, or you really need to make an effort to get your Spyder out yourself more often - the wind therapy you'll get if you do is not just good for YOU, your Spyder will benefit too! hyea:

And remember -

You don't get old AND stop riding; you get old BECAUSE you stop riding! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[Bfromla]

Well unfortunately the brake failure can be Set off by multiple Issues, commonly it's just low fluid. (Hyper sensitive on that!) To the point of carrying a spare qt oil & DOT4 brake fluid as a standard part of my roadside “kit”. The shudder on take-off :dontknow: I have had similar & a few other oddities as noted on a couple of threads.
Flat surfaces, occasionally or EVERY time? :dontknow: Try to note variables as it occurs. Double check the air pressure in all tires & for sure check all fluids at operational temperatures. The SE will bluntly let you know there's low oil when trying to shift & it fails to do so. Check the drive belt see if any deformation or there's extra slack. You can only see active codes from the dash; a dealer with BUDS can look at the history & maybe something will simply make sense. Also maybe you could try it with & without trailer mode on. (Automatically adjusts the down shifts & braking...) Just ideas there... Good luck

 

[Jim's_Spyder]

Nothing to do with the parking brake, it shudder before it starts moving, nothing to do with the tires it shudders before it moves. As far as your other suggestion, absolutely no way I'm going to loan my Spyder, Kubota tractor, 51 Chevy truck, 68 Nova, XP1000 RZR, either of my Honda motorcycles or my lawn mower or chainsaw out to someone else use or ride, the very thought of that suggestion boggles my mind. The best way to destroy anything is to loan it to someone with no money invested in the item.
As far as the sitting around, it sits in an enclosed, heated garage and is well taken care of. It gets moved and started and I had a slight issue that I have fixed. I don't use it because my wife and I have a full time jobs and several on and off road vehicles that we enjoy.

If you've got the Brembo Brakes on your ST, & if it's a 2013 it should have them; then there's gotta be something odd going on with your brakes OR your Park Brake if the Dash Brake light stays on after releasing the Park brake. Is that all that's happening? Does the light flash, or stay on solidly? For how long?? Do you get to hear the beeper sounding too? Have you checked the pads for wear, especially the rear pads?? Have you checked that the Park Brake Actuator (under the RHS tupperware just above the rider's foot peg/plate) is working properly :dontknow: Sorry about all the questions, but we need more detail to really have any chance of truly helping. That brake reset process might help, but only if it's causing or at least involved in the problem, and it could be a lot of other things beside that?? :dontknow:

As for the shuddering, YES, low oil can & will make any shuddering on take-off worse, but you should check the level & top up the oil if necessary AFTER each ride (preferably more than 30 minutes of ride time above idle/low revs & some at Hwy speeds! ) so it should never be too low when you start up & ride off again, and DO NOT OVER-FILL it either, cos that can do nasty things including making it shudder & knock! :lecturef_smilie:

Another thing that you should really address - these Spyder things REALLY don't like sitting around unused - a Spyder that's done only 7500 miles in 10 years is potentially a shed-load of problems just waiting to occur!! Are you sure the 'shuddering' isn't coming from flat spots on the tires?? And have you replaced the tires? If they're still the original OE Spec Kendas, they're probably DOUBLY UNSAFE to ride on at any speed now; and even if they're a/mkt replacements that are that old, they're possibly still beyond their 'safe to use' age (even if the tread depth looks fine!) & need to be carefully inspected by a competent tire technician before riding! Then there's all the other Rubber/plastic things & oil/fuel etc that hates juuust sitting & aging; vacuum hoses can age & crack, causing running issues; brake fluid absorbs water & turns to corrosive sludge; fuel can go off & form varnish, destroying fuel pumps & injectors if used; belts can harden in the areas that've been exposed to UV & not elsewhere, causing bumps & thumps & failures when they eventually do get used; and the list goes on!! :shocked: If you haven't looked at all these things, and basically given the Spyder a very thorough going over to make sure it's safe to ride, then the shuddering might be the least of your worries!! :yikes:

It sounds to me like you either need to find someone nearby who can regularly take your Spyder out for a run to keep it in good running order, or you really need to make an effort to get your Spyder out yourself more often - the wind therapy you'll get if you do is not just good for YOU, your Spyder will benefit too! hyea:

And remember -

You don't get old AND stop riding; you get old BECAUSE you stop riding! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[Jim's_Spyder]

Well unfortunately the brake failure can be Set off by multiple Issues, commonly it's just low fluid. (Hyper sensitive on that!) To the point of carrying a spare qt oil & DOT4 brake fluid as a standard part of my roadside “kit”. The shudder on take-off :dontknow: I have had similar & a few other oddities as noted on a couple of threads.
Flat surfaces, occasionally or EVERY time? :dontknow: Try to note variables as it occurs. Double check the air pressure in all tires & for sure check all fluids at operational temperatures. The SE will bluntly let you know there's low oil when trying to shift & it fails to do so. Check the drive belt see if any deformation or there's extra slack. You can only see active codes from the dash; a dealer with BUDS can look at the history & maybe something will simply make sense. Also maybe you could try it with & without trailer mode on. (Automatically adjusts the down shifts & braking...) Just ideas there... Good luck

I went to the shop yesterday and looked the thing over. I had forgotten about the brake fluid issue, I looked it over and the front chamber the float was stuck to the top and rear was about two tablespoons low on fluid. It was well within the full and low mark on the chamber. Talk about sensitive levels, that beyond sensitive of anything normal.
I was really more worried about the shuttering at start, in first or reverse giving it a slight amount of throttle would cause a clattering noise. I rode it around a little bit yesterday before changing the oil. It was slightly low, but still on the dipstick. It shifted and rode fine, but the chatter scared me. After the oil change that was a disaster of a mess it shifted fine. My son watched me take off in the shop and he said the said the tire was spinning at each grab of the clutch. It wasn't so much as clutch issue as tires spinning on the concrete floor. It went away after the oil change and getting of the slick shop floor. Sitting on it, I couldn't see the tire spinning on the floor, it sounded really bad.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This is related to your clutch shutter or chatter. RT and ST up to 2013 had the same engine and transmission.

 

[RangerRick]

Yep nature of the beast, Mine does it, my cure let it idle for a minute or two, revving it a lit bit in neutral. then it no longer does it.