Spyder Pricing and possible competiton

[Netminder]

You think they are expensive. Try buying one in Canada. :yikes:

:agree:Considering they are built in my home province and our country!

 

[Bob Denman]

I always enjoy the internet bravura of those who bemoan the Nanny, as if it *really* takes away from our enjoyment.

For one, anyone can "trick" the Nanny by adding the stiffer anti-sway bar, better shocks, better tires, etc. I did, and as a result my RS trips the Nanny far later than a stock RS.

But, and here's where I disagree with the complaints, I can't recall a single situation where I hit the Nanny where my dumba$$ *didn't* need it. Meaning, when the Nanny's engaged on me, it's because I was really risking matters going pear-shaped: hot in a corner, inside wheel lifting, the limits of traction approaching. Nanny kicked in, adjusts speed and traction, and returns me to a safe planted stance.

Now, if I was racing my Spyder on a track, then maybe I'd be expert enough to want to go beyond that limit.

But I'm not on a track, I'm on a public road. And while I ride as spiritedly as any of the most spirited riders here (I guarantee that-- come ride with me, we'll have fun!), I still don't want to tempt fate on the Spyder.

The design of any trike is INHERENTLY unstable in extreme cornering situations. A reverse trike is better than a forward trike, but it's *still* a trike. The BRP engineers discovered that for themselves, and realized that at real-world cornering speeds, they could apply technology to help safeguard against this instability... and, as a result, make the Spyder BETTER performing than other trike.

People who believe the Nanny limits the Spyder's performance have it all wrong-- without the Nanny, you wouldn't be able to push the Spyder as far as you do! Ask anyone whose ridden a conventional forward trike how much "fun" it is not having traction and stability control in the twisties, and compare that experience to the Spyder.

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:

Can't change or add a thing; other than, :agree:

 

[spyder3]

My wife is a nanny, I don't need another one:roflblack:

But seriously, I apparently do not need the nanny, as I have never felt it kick in. I have done some homework on the reverse trike being made in the NL with the GL1800. I've talk to someone who has ridden one and the guy making them. The feeling i get is that you would have to be riding that reverse trike Very very hard to lift a wheel or have the rear swerve out. It can be done if your trying to. I'm not sure how you would compare the other dynamics of each trike, but alot depends on the rider for certain.:lecturef_smilie:

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: But you have to remember that the legal department has as big a hand in the design of the bikes, as do the engineers...
And they'll always design them to be ridden by the most ignorant and careless moron possible... :gaah:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

My Father The Engineer

My wife is a nanny, I don't need another one:roflblack:

But seriously, I apparently do not need the nanny, as I have never felt it kick in. I have done some homework on the reverse trike being made in the NL with the GL1800. I've talk to someone who has ridden one and the guy making them. The feeling i get is that you would have to be riding that reverse trike Very very hard to lift a wheel or have the rear swerve out. It can be done if your trying to. I'm not sure how you would compare the other dynamics of each trike, but alot depends on the rider for certain.:lecturef_smilie:

My father was a PhD mechanical engineer. He was some kind of a project leader on the moon landing machinery...what I don't know as I was too young to understand, and he died before I thought to ask. When he retired he decided to redo Tesla's experiments. He found some errors in Tesla's calculations. My dad said that the errors did not affect the conclusions, but were errors just the same. His studies were published.

All that to say, my father was a really smart guy. At least when it came to engineering stuff.

he did explain to me on more than one occasion why reverse trikes are much safer than regular trikes. He even tried to start a consumer movement to get kids' trikes switched so they were reverse trikes. Yes, he was smart. Yes, he was somewhat of a kook.

If I remember correctly, he said that reverse trikes are 38% less likely to be involved in some kinds of crashes. I wish I still had his papers, so I could reference them...but I have to rely on my error prone memory.

So, I looked everywhere, and I did not find any crash statistics, published studies, or what have you for trikes, reverse trikes, two wheels vs four wheels.

I will keep looking, maybe I will go over to the university where I used to work and get a research librarian to help me.

If anyone has some data, or has any ideas where I can find some, please let me know.

Dan

 

[spyder3]

Whew. my BS generator just blew a fuse..[/QUOTE]



:roflblack:That seriously made me LOL

 

[Doktor]

My other bike is a three wheeler, as well, but it is a 1300VTX with an Escort sidecar, the first day I brought it home I went into a right turn that I had often gone into on my Goldwing at a fairly aggressive speed, the sidecar wheel came up about a foot, my inexperience had overloaded my ability. I think I sucked my seat up into my butt, then kicked the bars into a left turn. The laws of Physics are still in effect, I've since got to where I can pull it up in a right turn at will. Left turns, however, are rock solid, centrifugal motion still works too. The fork has been modified to allow almost effortless steering. All that said, to bring out the fact that if we stay within the vehicle's prescribed limits, and within our own limits, the inherent safety measures of our vehicle will prevent any undesirable results. :chat:


Doc

 

[GeoffCee]

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder.

The last 3 cars I've bought have all had a stability control system of one kind or another and each provided the driver with the option of turning it off. I tried driving without it one time just to see what it was like but I was as nervous as a kitten, afraid that the car would behave badly and that I'd lose control and have an expensive crash. It was a short experiment that I will not repeat.

Likewise, I have absolutely no desire to find out what a nanny-free Spyder would be like to ride, I'll leave that to others who no doubt will want to tell us all about it if BRP ever gives them the chance. I'm not sure that it would be such a good idea, you have to consider what BRP would get out of it. One accident would result in a heap of negative publicity. :ani29:

 

[wyliec]

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:

Nanny or no nanny?

I wonder if the mask is BRP issued?

 

[Dan_Ashley]

Stability in vehicles is not measured when limits are exceeded (as in too fast through a corner), they are measured in normal flight regime (oops - cruise regime)

A 2 wheel cycle is not inherently unstable in a turn at speeds up to the limit, because it achieves a balance in turn and does not try to diverge from the turn or unseat the operator unless the operator induces the divergence, or one of the constants is disturbed (by an oil patch or change in the turn radius for instance).

A forward trike will diverge from a constant turn by exhibiting gross understeer, and lateral instability of the passenger compartment (tendency to fling operator off) at all times. Having to lean out of the vehicle axis is a sure sign of instability. What if airline passengers had to lean ? What if airplanes couldn't bank a la Spyder ?

A motorcycle does not understeer. And it holds the operator in the vehicle axis. Sportbike drivers who 'lean off' are just playing games with stability.

Granted, a forward trike will resist divergant factors like an oil patch better than a bike, up to a point. Problem is, this may induce you to crash at a higher speed.

Whew. my BS generator just blew a fuse..

So you are saying a two wheeler is stable in turns BECAUSE it leans, and a three wheeler is not stable because of the forces on the riders?

this ignores traction issues, two wheeler passengers leaning, and driving on edges of tires. It also assumes that a sport bike and a three wheeler SHOULD behave identically in a turn. Methinks your arguements are only a small part of the safety differences.

Also, watch the video above. You can't do that on a "more stable" two wheeler!

So, I repeat, what are your sources, and your credibility on this issue. I shared mine. Don't be afraid. Nobody will attack...

 

[Dan_Ashley]

Eeeekkkkk!!!!

:spyder2: :2thumbs: :welcome: :clap:

 

[wb4lrk]

Spyder pricing.

With possible competition waiting in the wings, i.e. Arctic Cat, Polaris, Honda, et al, do you think that BRP would lower the cost of its Spyder line?
I don't need to state that Spyders are expensive. Do you think the competition could bring a lower price point to the table? I realize that technology such as ABS, the nanny etc. cost money. Do you think a Spyder is fairly priced in the market place given it's the only game in town, for now... :chat:

I paid $22,000 plus $650 for shipping in an enclosed trailer from a dealer in Texas to my home in South Carolina for a new 2012 RT Limited in September of 2012. I think I got a good deal compared to the MSRP of almost $30,000. My local dealer wanted $25,400 for the exact same Spyder.

 

[Bob Denman]

It is interesting that in an airplane, if you dont bank ( lean) the airplane will not turn even with full rudder deflection. It is also interesting that raising the nose of an airplane will cause it to descend, not climb. These are counter- intuitive. Lay persons understanding of stability may be based on intuition therefore wrong.

:shocked::hun: We're not in planes... What "counterintuitive" circumstance are you referring to? I steer right; it goes right... it works pretty well to the left also.I stomp on the brake; it stops... If I even swear a little, it stops faster!

 

[boborgera]

Getting back to pricing and competition, Competition doesn't ''always'' reduce price, But it will make for a better product, Take the 3 major pickup trucks, All competing with each other, 3 different company's, 3 different parts suppliers, But all 3 are priced within a hundred dollars of each other....