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Ryker "Down Shifting" while engine braking

D

Ddorand

New member
i asked this question in another thread but didnt get an answer
i have also searched the forums and didnt see this question asked already

i have read conflicting info in a ryker/spyder facebook group so i thought i would ask here.

when i let off the gas and let the bike decel using engine braking it feels like it is downshifting multiple times.
the bike will lurch forward like the belt slips then clunk into a lower "gear" within a split second. if that makes sense.
slowing down from 40 to 5 it will do it as many as 6 times or more, sometimes less.

some people say its normal, others say it isnt and to have my cvt pulleys replaced.

i have 400 miles on my ryker and it has done it since 2 miles when i got it.

thanks much

Dave
 
What your feeling is not downshifting or belt slipping. My 2019 does it as well so to my knowledge its normal. It only happens sometimes when I'm decelerating (typically when going down a steep incline to a stop) What I believe is happening is the drive shaft is being allowed to "jump the drive" and the noise and lurch you hear and feel (although the lurch on mine is minimal....not like it throws the bike forward 12" or anything) is this drive shaft jump. I took a look at the exploded view of the gear box for the Rykers and I noticed some parts in there that I wouldn't think would normally be in there and thought that maybe this is a mechanical feature built into the gear box. The feature allows the drive shaft to "jump" or disengage from the drive in certain situations where engine RPM, Secondary clutch RPM and wheel speed varies a certain amount. When the variance is too great the disengagement happens. All speculation on my part? For me it happens and I assume normal but it could in fact be a defect?

My Ryker gets a its 6000 mile service tomorrow at the dealer. I'll ask them.
 
interested to hear what they say, it seems to be getting worse. my local dealer closed down the day after i got mine. new dealer isnt can am yet and they seem to be snarky and better than me lol
2 other dealers, 1 is an hour away through new orleans into kenner, the other is over an hour away in hattiesburg, MS, and there website scares me. way too pushy

thanks again

Dave
 
Bearing in mind that my Ryker experience is fairly limited, just a few demo rydes & a couple of days 'testing' that wasn't on public roads, so maybe something like 1000-1500miles..... :dontknow:

Buuut, that aside & IIRC, while the type of CVT's that Rykers run generally don't 'engine brake' well, I believe the Rykers have an extra 'engine braking' feature built into their CVT that is meant to help you slow down as you wind back on the throttle (instead of just cutting drive & then coasting, it actually retards! ) and I think it's dependent upon the ryder still holding 'some throttle' on! ;)

So if you are slowing down & just back off on the throttle part way, the engine braking feature does its thing & you'll slow down faster than you would if your Ryker didn't have it! BUT, if you back right off, closing the throttle all the way, that feature doesn't work & you take a while to coast to a stop if you don't brake/do something else... :rolleyes: However, the situation you describe can occur if you are right on the cusp of a 'fully closed throttle', or maybe just jiggling a touch of throttle in & out a bit as you move around in response to the road surface/whatever, and so you'll get what you've described. The solution, at least for me, was to always hold just a bit more throttle on.... and then it'd smoothly slow down under 'engine braking'. :ohyea:

Or maybe your 'engine braking' device is just busted/not working?! :dontknow:


Over to you! :thumbup:
 
Good theory, Peter.
Throttle position may be important to understanding this. Ddorand, pls advise further.

The Ryker CVT has enough intelligence to hold a good ratio for engine braking.
I get max engine braking with closed throttle.
Less engine braking with partial throttle.

Today, going down a grade (6%+?) from 8,000 feet down to 7,000 feet, with some curves, partial throttle lost speed without slowing too much.
 
If I am understanding your description accurately. I have not experienced this with my Ryker. I ride a lot in the mountains. It's smooth both going faster and slowing down. I wonder if your centrifugal clutches are sticking somehow. I don't see any reason for the 'Jumps' and 'Clunks' that you describe. The whole advantage of a CVT is the continuous, transition-less, seamless 'Shifting' ability.
 
Last edited:
Pretty sure its not the clutches. I'm pretty sure its in the gearbox. Funny thing is I hear you guys talk about engine braking. My Ryker doesn't have any really, it will free wheel when you let off the throttle for a long time. Unlike my Ski-Doo which engine brakes heavy when you let off the throttle. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
 
I was suggesting the forward/reverse gear box.

6000 mile service complete. Talked to the dealer about the issue. Gave him an example of going down an incline (hill) completely letting off the throttle half way down and letting it coast to the stop sign using the brake to stop. While coasting you would hear/feel some clunking lurching. He said as far as he knows its normal. His wife had a 2019 Ryker 900 and now a 2020 900 demo and he said both of them do this from time to time. He said other customers have also asked about it. So, as far as he knows its normal and not causing any issues. He also said it was his guess was its clutch engagement/disengagement and better throttle control (basically keeping RPM at engagement even when slowing down or stopping) would eliminate most of it.

On another note. The dealer did say that he personally found the fuel pump whine very annoying. He has been talking with his BRP rep and BRP has some "fix" options they are working on. He actually asked if I would be interested in testing out some of the options on my bike. So, looks like BRP is working on the fuel pump whine thing.
 
If I understand the operation of the CVT correctly (which may be a dangerous assumption) the primary sheave pully is freewheeling and not bearing against the belt until engine RPM reaches 1800 thus no power to the secondary sheave pully and drive shaft. When coasting down hill with the throttle closed engine RPM is below 1800 so no tension to the belt from the primary sheave. However, if rear tire rotation and shaft drive is still rotating the secondary sheave and minor throttle input takes up the belt slack (or just vibration in the belt) the power would be delivered backward to the primary sheave which would be rotating slower than the secondary. This temporary belt drag or skipping might be perceived as the downshift you are describing.

I am just speculating here and admit to my limited knowledge of a CVT systems. However, I do know that on my Rally chopping the throttle results in rapid slowing to the point that I don't need to brake until I want to stop completely.
 
Tslepebull said:
If I understand the operation of the CVT correctly (which may be a dangerous assumption) the primary sheave pully is freewheeling and not bearing against the belt until engine RPM reaches 1800 thus no power to the secondary sheave pully and drive shaft. When coasting down hill with the throttle closed engine RPM is below 1800 so no tension to the belt from the primary sheave. However, if rear tire rotation and shaft drive is still rotating the secondary sheave and minor throttle input takes up the belt slack (or just vibration in the belt) the power would be delivered backward to the primary sheave which would be rotating slower than the secondary. This temporary belt drag or skipping might be perceived as the downshift you are describing.

I am just speculating here and admit to my limited knowledge of a CVT systems. However, I do know that on my Rally chopping the throttle results in rapid slowing to the point that I don't need to brake until I want to stop completely.
Click to expand...

I would say you have it right on except........I don't believe there would be any power delivered back to the primary since its still rotating at the idle RPM (around 900 I think). The belt would just turn (same direction as primary) and slip on the center shaft of the primary (and/or possibly the secondary clutch as well since there is minimal force on it). There is also at least one chain in the gearbox. So, I suppose a combination of belt slippage from non clutch engagement and chain slack adds up to some drive line slack that in certain situations causes what we are talking about.
 
if i let go of the throttle grip mine will "engine brake" almost to a stop, i hardly need brakes, in fact if i let off too soon i have to gas it to get all the way to the stop light. only to stop completely from about 5 mph. it will freewheel for a split second between "downshifts" it almost sounds like the pulleys are resetting. i will try and go to an empty parking lot and try to get some video. its pretty reproducible as it does it 99% of the time.

i didnt have time to read everything above, but i will tonight when i get home

Dave
 
Engine RPMs do not drop below 1800 (engagement) until Ryker is almost stopped.
Select RPM mode (versus fuel stat or MTE) and watch it.
Doing a "California stop", the clutch remains engaged.

With throttle backed off, engine RPMs are relative to speed, they do not drop to idle (850) until almost stopped and clutch disengages.
 
i have tried many different things. holding a little throttle, no throttle, completely letting go of the grip. all do the same. downshifts. holding a little gas it does it less, but still does it.
its getting hot in louisiana and i work at an a/c supply house so i have been busy. one day i will get to make a video.


Dave
 
Coming to a slow stop, I can hear/feel clutch disengage at about 6 MPH.
Nothing other than smooth engine braking before that.
 
Ddorand, mine does the same thing and it is pretty bad if I am going down a steep hill. I do not think it is normal. It feels as if something sticks and then let's go probably one of the pulleys is not transitioning smoothly.
I will try to record also. You get the sensation as if you are having a serious hiccups episode. :)
 
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