Removing rear wheel

[Woodaddict]

pinkRosePetal location is UK, they have much more salt in air from ocean, its an BIG island like living near coast in USA

 

[jcthorne]

What makes you think it's my bike?

Law of averages. I have changed over 100 rear tires on Spyders and have never seen one that needed that seal replaced other than when pressing in new bearings (done my share of those too). So if yours is eating seals and I have seen 100 that are not, leads me to believe there is something going on with your bike rather than the design. you are also the first to report this problem here on SL.

In this application they are not really grease seals at all as there is no grease behind them. They are dust seals to keep grime out of the bearings. They do their job as designed for many thousands of miles. Inside of hubs and bearing look new and clean with 50k miles when I usually recommend bearing replacement. ( on the newer one piece wheels ). I really think you are overthinking this and making a problem where there is not one.

I also think your method of removing and worse installing the belt with the rear sprocket raised and the belt under tension is far more difficult and trouble prone than the removal of one easy access bolt on the bottom of the shock to do the job as intended. Some bikes the upper caliper mount bolt is still up behind the muffler until you remove the shock mount bolt making access much more difficult. Its not the same on all bikes depending on the exhaust and body style.

 

[PinkRosePetal]

I lived in Pennsylvania and my adjusters bearing and seal were fine on my 2012 RT when the tire was changed. The pictures shown looks like something that would happen if the bike was ridden in the winter with rock salt on the roads.

Regarding the corrosion photos you're likely correct. That bike was brought to me for a tyre change at approx 8000 miles. After dismantling the rear wheel we found what you see in the pictures and the seal was completely wiped out, a rusty bearing and there was corrosion also on the sprocket and it was replaced under warranty. It was then, when refitting the new parts, we discovered just how tight the spacers fit into the new seals and it explained how the seals were wiped out and how that allowed the ingress of water to the bearing which you can see is fairly rusted. We machined the spacers and completed the job, the owner was made aware and that was that.

Move on a fair few months and we worked on a 2012 RT for a complete tyre change, this bike had never seen water and was in pristine condition but we made sure to check the seals when replacing the rear tyre and, sure enough, they too were wiped out but the bearings were fine. We machined the spacer and fitted the matching seals and, as far as I know the bike is still going fine.

Move on again. The owner of the 2014 RT - the corroded one - purchased a new RT and came to us to have the new bike under waxed for protection and to have the rear wheel seals checked. The pictures you see with the seal lips tearing are from that brand new RT at approx 350 miles, the distance from the main dealer to me.

We've since done a similar check on another brand new RT and it too had the seals failing, it came from the same dealer so had also just covered the same 350 miles. This is not a once only occurrence.

Some time after this I took the opportunity to visit a Can-Am dealer - a different dealer - since I was in the vicinity, for interest sake, just to check out the range of vehicles they sell and I mentioned the seal issue on the RT Spyders. They, like you folks, said they'd never come across this situation and took me through to the workshop where they'd shortly finished replacing bearings in an RT and they recovered the old seal from the trash, looked at it, announced it was OK and handed it to me. I was wiped out too and it seems that because the sealing lips are completely gone and the remainder of the seal rubber polishes smooth they were not recognising what they were looking at. Anyway, they do now. I urge you folks who service your rear wheels to have an open mind about this and check very carefully that what you see is actually what you should be seeing.

If you live in a dry climate or don't ride in the rain a worn seal will likely do, provided the spacer still makes contact with the rubber. If you ride in the rain, in the winter or you hose your bike to clean it then the seals need to be watertight and worn ones will not be, as you can see from the rusty bearing in the sprocket. For info, I use water resistant grease for anything external or which requires specific protection.


Well I think I've said my bit and you guys can make of it what you will, you've got pictures of the evidence of the seal damage, you can see that the parts are new so there is no cheat in the pics. The parts are not complex, simply a spacer through a seal so it would be tricky for there to be something unusual going on. Perhaps Chasinsparks will come back after he's completed his tyre change and tell us what he found. :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

Do you realize there is an o-ring between the sprocket and the wheel that is torn on assembly on almost every new bike? The rear axle is not water tight. Not designed to be. These are just dust seals and are doing their job just fine. Folks do NOT need to tear down new bikes and redesign the rear hub. Simple rain blowing by is far different than submersion and these are NOT designed for submersion. You are making up problems where they do not exist.

 

[P.W.]

Sorry for my ignorance.... but who is Bob and where can I watch this video?

Thank you,
P.W.

 

[h0gr1der]

Sorry for my ignorance.... but who is Bob and where can I watch this video?

Thank you,
P.W.

https://youtu.be/MWtbQPdKd8w

Mr Finless Bob has helped many a folk with tire removal, me included.

 

[P.W.]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Chasinsparks]

Here is the link to the VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtbQPdKd8w

 

[Chasinsparks]

UPDATE:

I did the wheel removal and tire install today. Following every ones advice, the job it's self was pretty straight forward. Took longer to get the tire mounted on the rim than doing the work.

What did I learn:

Removing the sensor in the swing arm was the worst part.

I tried to remove the belt with out taking the shock bolt out. I was not able to do it that way, once I removed the bolt from the shock there was no problem.

Bearings and seals looked good.

The manual shows removing the hub, my wheel has a solid hub nothing to remove ( I guess that is what you call it) the brake disc mounts right to it I removed the brake disc on one side and the drive pulley on the other.

Mr. Tire had no problem mounting but said he never seen a rim like that and could not balance it, did not charge for the mounting.

I reinstalled wheel and torqued to specs too it for an extended test ride, would never no it was not balance super smooth.

Tire is a 205 60 15 Quad Trac 5


Thank you all that chimed in and gave e your input and advice.

 

[jcthorne]

UPDATE:

I did the wheel removal and tire install today. Following every ones advice, the job it's self was pretty straight forward. Took longer to get the tire mounted on the rim than doing the work.

What did I learn:

Removing the sensor in the swing arm was the worst part.

I tried to remove the belt with out taking the shock bolt out. I was not able to do it that way, once I removed the bolt from the shock there was no problem.

Bearings and seals looked good.

The manual shows removing the hub, my wheel has a solid hub nothing to remove ( I guess that is what you call it) the brake disc mounts right to it I removed the brake disc on one side and the drive pulley on the other.

Mr. Tire had no problem mounting but said he never seen a rim like that and could not balance it, did not charge for the mounting.

I reinstalled wheel and torqued to specs too it for an extended test ride, would never no it was not balance super smooth.

Tire is a 205 60 15 Quad Trac 5


Thank you all that chimed in and gave e your input and advice.View attachment 174424

Just FYI, there is no need to remove the brake rotor (or the hub on the older wheels) to mount a new tire. Most tire shops do not have equipment to balances these, they require a motorcycle tire balance machine because of the small bore.

 

[Chasinsparks]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.

For my past 5 rear tire changes I haven't balanced any rear wheel/tire and have had No issues either …. Mike hyea:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.

My tire shop put some commercial quality liquid balance (NOT Slime or Ride-On!) in my tire since they couldn't spin balance it. It's the same stuff they use in truck tires. Works good.

 

[CapnPete]

Just as a matter of curiosity.....

I removed my rear tire to upgrade the rear shock to M2 and the tire itself to a General. What a pain in the azz.

I too removed my rear disc in the vain hope my local tire shop could balance the rear with the new tire. They mounted it but had to go to dealer for balance. Anyway...the shop manual sez to trash the disc bolts and replace with new. Did you? I did not, just cleaned and re-locktited.

just wondering

 

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

You have all the tools you need...... Except two. First is patience. Go slow. The second is bandaids. To successfully complete any job requiring tools you must bleed at least once..... Jim

Not if you wear gloves:banghead:

 

[RICZ]

PinkRosePetal,
Lemme get this straight. You have machined the spacers to what dimensions? Do I assume correctly that only the OD of the flange and the OD of the barrel were reduced?
The 55 X 35 X 9 is the off-the-shelf seal and not the BRP seal? Got a number for that OTS seal?
Does this apply to 2017 F3Ls such as mine?
Is there a number (not BRP's) on the OEM seal? I have a huge bearing supply house near me, maybe they'd have one that will work.

 

[spyder01]

I just changed my rear tire last week, 3rd tire on the bike but first time using a car tire on the back. I changed out my bearings and seals bc I had read here that they were failing at low mileage, but then I found out that it was old info and not true. My bearings were fine as well as the seals and no corrosion anywhere and I live in a beach town on the east coast and ride in the rain a lot. I'm not sure what kind of conditions these bikes in question are riding in, maybe they brine the roads in the UK and these folks are riding on a wet salty road. But even so the one bike only had 350 miles on it. I do remember one time I drove my Goldwing to Florida in the winter and I95 was salted in a few areas. When I got home 2 weeks later I found the rear wheel was heavily corroded. Ever since then I wash my bike a couple times during my trips.

 

[Bfromla]

I just changed my rear tire last week, 3rd tire on the bike but first time using a car tire on the back. I changed out my bearings and seals bc I had read here that they were failing at low mileage, but then I found out that it was old info and not true. My bearings were fine as well as the seals and no corrosion anywhere and I live in a beach town on the east coast and ride in the rain a lot. I'm not sure what kind of conditions these bikes in question are riding in, maybe they brine the roads in the UK and these folks are riding on a wet salty road. But even so the one bike only had 350 miles on it. I do remember one time I drove my Goldwing to Florida in the winter and I95 was salted in a few areas. When I got home 2 weeks later I found the rear wheel was heavily corroded. Ever since then I wash my bike a couple times during my trips.

opcorn: also similar ldpost: Not bad thread & maybe not as specific as some may like to be. New bearings not a bad thing & at 3rd tire bout par:thumbup: should inspect at every change by default maybe keep a set handy (with current supply delays). Keep good maintenance & miles logs just peace of mind if nothing else:clap: