Recommendations - SM or SE? Triple or V-Twin?

[llaczo]

Hi All, This is my 1st post here. I'm not new to riding and over the years, I've ridden with quite a few people who love their Spyders. I also test rode one years ago, I kept putting my feet down! LOL!

I'm seriously considering moving to 3 wheels myself. I've read a bunch of threads comparing SE vs SM. Personally I still love to shift so I'd prefer a SM bagger / RT myself. Two general questions, hoping to get some feedback from those who know better.

1) It looks like the SM option is gone for 2021 which for me would rule out purchasing new. Is this the case?
2) Assuming a used unit, how significant is the difference between the 2 cylinder SM-5 vs the 3 cylinder SM-6? In terms of HP, performance and gear ratios?

Thanks in advance!
--Lou

 

[ARtraveler]

:welcome:

I would go with the SE version. I have owned 7 total and only one (the first) was an SM.

Resale wise...most want SE versions.

Performance wise...not much difference between the SM vs. the SE's.

You still have to shift the paddles....but no clutch. Other motorcycle brands are adopting the paddle shift...SE versions to their line ups.

 

[BajaRon]

You are going to get opinions scattered all over the map with this one. But the only opinion that really matters is yours.

I have a 2008 SM. And a 2019 Ryker. I love them both and they are both enough different that each has its special place in my heart. I love to shift the SM on the open road. But it gets a bit haggard on a tight twisty like the Dragon, etc. The Ryker has no shifting what-so-ever. As it is a CVT. I really have fallen in love with that transmission. The SE is a hybrid somewhere in-between the SM and the CVT. I don't know anyone who has gone from an SM to and SE that was disappointed or wished to go back to an SM. Not saying there isn't someone out there. But I know a lot of people who have made the swap. And so far, it's 100% SE.

Having said that. It doesn't hurt to look at your options and ride as many Spyders of both kinds that you can to find your sweet spot. Your bigger problem will likely be the brain reprogramming curve going from 2 to 3 wheels. This has been an unexpected hurdle for many, including myself.

Added Note: The older V-Twin and the newer 1330 both have advantages and disadvantages. The 1330 is a new powerplant from the ground up and is probably better suited to the Spyder, Especially the heavier RT. But the V-Twin is no slouch and I've heard rumors that it's actually a bit quicker in the 1/4 mile. Suffice it to say, it will keep up. There are a good number of variables to this equation. Most of which will be personal. In the end. Whatever you get. I think you'll be happy with it.

 

[UtahPete]

Do you have any budget restraints? What kind of riding do you want to do? Maybe a Ryker is your best bet, depending on your responses.

 

[RICZ]

After 67 years of squeezing clutches, I am really enjoying not having to any more. I ride aggressively and do a lot of shifting. It's nice to only have to bat a lever and have the engine do its own rev matching. No more cramped left hand. But then, I'm well into my wild 80s and you may be my kid's age. Ain't no shame getting the electric shift - it's still the same tranny.

 

[VStarRider]

Hi All, This is my 1st post here. I'm not new to riding and over the years, I've ridden with quite a few people who love their Spyders. I also test rode one years ago, I kept putting my feet down! LOL!

I'm seriously considering moving to 3 wheels myself. I've read a bunch of threads comparing SE vs SM. Personally I still love to shift so I'd prefer a SM bagger / RT myself. Two general questions, hoping to get some feedback from those who know better.

1) It looks like the SM option is gone for 2021 which for me would rule out purchasing new. Is this the case?
2) Assuming a used unit, how significant is the difference between the 2 cylinder SM-5 vs the 3 cylinder SM-6? In terms of HP, performance and gear ratios?

Thanks in advance!
--Lou

Lou, BajaRon is right - you will get a lot of opinions.

As for the SM5 vs SM6, I cannot speak to a comparison of the two. However, it would not surprise me if they are the exact same transmission +1 forward gear. Others may be able to confirm/deny that. By the way, all Spyders have reverse, regardless of SE or SM.

I have a 2015 SM5 and I will contribute that it may be the smoothest shifting manual transmission on a motorcycle I have ever experienced. The clutch has a light pull and linear engagement. If you go with the SM5/6, know that operating that transmission will be a positive experience.

I have never ridden an SE-equipped Spyder, but there is pretty much only positive commentary on it. A few folks stick with the SM transmission for its simplicity.

There is a difference between an SE5 and an SE6. The SE5 is hydraulically actuated, while the SE6 is not. The SE5 in combination with the twin motor needs to be operated at higher rpms to reduce wear. Others may contribute more on that topic.

As for the engines - I own the 998 V-twin in my 2015. Not knowing what two-wheeler you are coming off, the twin can feel familiar or foreign. It loves to be revved and actually is smoother at 6000 rpm than it is at 2000 rpm, under load. If you are coming from a European twin, or a lower cc Japanese bike, its power band should not surprise you. Coming from an American, big displacement V-twin? Big adjustment. I was running VStar twins and a couple of Gold Wings prior to acquiring the V-twin Spyder. It took me awhile to be comfortable with shifting at 5000 rpm regularly. Now, I love it, and I find myself revving it out to 6000-8000 a few times every ride because of how sweet it is, and how hard it pulls at those engine speeds! The twin will purr at 4500 rpm around 60 mph, in either SM or SE versions. Most Harleys are running 2000-2500 at 60, so that can be a bit of shock for those folks. It is fairly quiet while cruising, in my opinion. It is no louder than my GW at 60-70 mph, but the sound is different. It is the sound of a higher-revving motor vs the GW's steady, low exhaust-driven roar.

I think most that have owned one of the twins will agree that it is a spunky motor and makes the Spyder experience a bit more lively than the 1330, particularly in aggressive riding.

The twin's maintenance schedule is more intense than the triple's. Oil changes every 4300 miles vs 9000 miles on the triples. Some twins burn oil - mine does not, no matter how hard I beat on it. It was pretty fine tuned by the 2015 and 2016 model years, smoother with more low-end torque. Power is 100 horsepower, 80 lb/ft torque. The triples are 115 hp, 96 lb/ft of torque.

The twin was last used in 2016 STS and RSS models. You could get a twin in the 2010-2013 RT models; they went to the 1330 from 2014-present. The F-series Spyders have always used the triples (originated in 2015, I believe). BRP reduced the model lineup in 2016, leaving only the F3s and RTs.

Others will have to comment on the 1330. It's power band is much different. I believe they cruise at 3000 rpm around 60 mph, and make more low end torque, so shifting at 3500 rpm nets normal acceleration vs 5000 on the twin.

 

[jbim]

Riding a Spyder is not as organic and physically involved as riding a 2-wheel. I don't miss the clutching. The SE makes the ride simpler. I enjoy it. I don't know about the engines as I have a 2018. That said, often times newer is better.

Enjoy!

 

[llaczo]

Do you have any budget restraints? What kind of riding do you want to do? Maybe a Ryker is your best bet, depending on your responses.

No real budget constraints, though I don't think I would (or even could if it's a manual) buy a new one. I'm looking to do touring, perhaps a cross country trek to see my daughter, Charlotte NC to Portland OR.

 

[llaczo]

Hey VStarRider, Thanks for the recap, this really helps. I've read a few threads about the higher operating RPMs required with the twin/SE5/SM5 combo, some even indicating that you can damage the tranny by short shifting on the SE5. I own an 06 Royal Star, so I'm definitely more used to lower RPMs and higher torque.

I owned a GL1800 for a while and didn't really like it because of the RPMs required highway speed, IMO, it needed a 6th gear. I also had a VStar Classic years ago, great bike but the same problem, to me it didn't feel comfortable at highway speed, I think it also needed a 6th gear. On the other hand, the RSTD's 5th is tall enough that it comfortably covers speeds up to 80-90.

I've also ridden sporties and an old Honda CB 4 cylinder inline which was my 1st bike way back in the day, so I'm familiar with the higher RPM power band. They're fun, though I'm not sure I'd want to drive one of those across the country.

Not sure what kind of riding you do. I'm considering some long distance touring, so I'd get a bagger. Have you done long rides with your twin/SM5? If not, would you? I'm concerned a high RPM cruiser would be a tooth rattling experience. Based on your description, it sounds like the 3 cylinder / SM6 combo might be better for me.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

? vs. ?

Iv'e had spyders since 09 .... and have owned both the v-twin and the 1330 ... also both types of trans. ... 1330 and SE trans. without question is the better choice .... getting parts for the V-twin and the SM trans. are going to get harder and harder ... BRP no longer sells either.... Why is there NO SM trans. in 2021 ... it's outdated .... Can you get a Manual trans. in the new C-8 corvette ... NO .... the paddle shifting auto out performs the Manual ALL the time .... good luck ... Mike :thumbup:

 

[RICZ]

Riding a Spyder is not as organic and physically involved as riding a 2-wheel. I don't miss the clutching. The SE makes the ride simpler. I enjoy it. I don't know about the engines as I have a 2018. That said, often times newer is better.

I find riding a Spyder far more physically involved. You are very passive on a two wheeler. When in the twisties, all you are doing is sitting still and counter-steering. On a Spyder, you are leaning your upper body into the turn, pushing down with your outside leg while pulling and pushing on the handlebars. You don't do that on a two wheeler.

 

[UtahPete]

No real budget constraints, though I don't think I would (or even could if it's a manual) buy a new one. I'm looking to do touring, perhaps a cross country trek to see my daughter, Charlotte NC to Portland OR.

Then I suggest you want a standard Spyder (not Ryker) with the 3-cylinder engine for long-distance cruising comfort and better gas mileage than the twin. You will find more available with the automatic downshift transmission (upshifting is by paddle). F3 is sportier, with a different seating position is the major difference with the RT; either one is a great long-distance tourer.

 

[bigbadbrucie]

E

I find riding a Spyder far more physically involved. You are very passive on a two wheeler. When in the twisties, all you are doing is sitting still and counter-steering. On a Spyder, you are leaning your upper body into the turn, pushing down with your outside leg while pulling and pushing on the handlebars. You don't do that on a two wheeler.

I totally agree with you. After a few hours of twisties and a full day of riding, I’m ready to call it a day and settle down for a few cool-aids. I’m just not as young as I was 50 years ago (that’s how long I’ve had my m/c endorsement).

 

[VStarRider]

......
Not sure what kind of riding you do. I'm considering some long distance touring, so I'd get a bagger. Have you done long rides with your twin/SM5? If not, would you? I'm concerned a high RPM cruiser would be a tooth rattling experience. Based on your description, it sounds like the 3 cylinder / SM6 combo might be better for me.

Probably. Most of my riding is commuting to work (75 miles round trip), and ~100 mile rides on the Spyder. Just took it for an 80 mile spin between this post and my last one earlier today! To answer your question, yes, I have done 250+ mile rides on the twin and it is fine, though I am sure the 1330 has the edge in smoothness.

If you are used to low-revving twins, and want to mainly do cruising, the 1330 is the better option. The 998 V-twin is more spunky and rev-happy, probably better suited to shorter distances, though many on here have ridden them coast to coast without issues prior to the 1330 becoming available in 2014. The twin is not tooth-rattling in any way - you only feel a little bit of that V-twin pulse through the footpads at certain rpms.

It appears as though BRP switched the triple as their only engine in 2016 because the primary Spyder buyer had revealed his/herself to be primary interested in touring over the years since they have been in production.

As others have said, at this point, you will find 10 Spyders for sale with the 1330 motor for every twin you find. There will be far more selection and better resale. The twin would not be a dealbreaker for me, in fact, half the time I think I would prefer it over the 1330...but I am in the minority here. Same deal with the transmission - at least 9 of 10 you find used are gonna be SE5/6s. You cannot go wrong with the SM or SE - only factor is personal preference.

 

[Wahrsuul]

I have a 2014 SE6 RTS. If I knew then.... I'd have gone with the SM. But as has been said, it's a personal preference. The transmission is the same in both, just the clutch is different and for my riding style, I'd prefer the manual clutch.

Definitely the 1330 - I did ride a 2010 RT with the 998 and it was not for me. It didn't like to be below 5k rpm at any time and that's just too frantic a pace for a touring rig. The triple is smoother, more powerful, gets better mpg and has less maintenance.

Let me know if you're in the market.

 

[pegasus1300]

Hey VStarRider, Thanks for the recap, this really helps. I've read a few threads about the higher operating RPMs required with the twin/SE5/SM5 combo, some even indicating that you can damage the tranny by short shifting on the SE5. I own an 06 Royal Star, so I'm definitely more used to lower RPMs and higher torque.

I owned a GL1800 for a while and didn't really like it because of the RPMs required highway speed, IMO, it needed a 6th gear. I also had a VStar Classic years ago, great bike but the same problem, to me it didn't feel comfortable at highway speed, I think it also needed a 6th gear. On the other hand, the RSTD's 5th is tall enough that it comfortably covers speeds up to 80-90.

I've also ridden sporties and an old Honda CB 4 cylinder inline which was my 1st bike way back in the day, so I'm familiar with the higher RPM power band. They're fun, though I'm not sure I'd want to drive one of those across the country.

Not sure what kind of riding you do. I'm considering some long distance touring, so I'd get a bagger. Have you done long rides with your twin/SM5? If not, would you? I'm concerned a high RPM cruiser would be a tooth rattling experience. Based on your description, it sounds like the 3 cylinder / SM6 combo might be better for me.

Thanks for the update on your riding style and experience,that really helps. I came to the Spyder from 25 years on Yamaha V4s, Venture Royale, Royale,RSTD, RSVenture. Before that European and British and Harley. Much cross country. I have ridden Coast to coast to coast,to northern border on two wheels and three. I have a 2012 RTL which has the VTwin motor and the SE5 transmission. This motor was used by Aprillia for several years and had a 6 speed trans at that time and of course a manual clutch. When the motor went to Can Am they dumped the 6th gear in favor of a reverse and gave you the option of an auto clutch shifter. This is NOT an automatic transmission. In either the SE5 or the SE6. You still have to shift it. You just don't pull a clutch. The high revs on shifting mostly applies to the SE5 as it is a centrifugal clutch while the SE6 is not. The SE5 engages fully at 3800. I shift mine at 6000 and cruise between 4500 and 5000. Very smooth and quiet. And powerful. I find that the power is very much like the Yamaha V4. Good a low rpms but much better as the rpms begin to climb. In 5 years I have put 10,000 -12,000 miles per year on my VTwin and find it goes very well on the Freeway at 80 mph but I now enjoy back roads more. I have traveled in almost every state in the west and have no problem going to Dead 3Wheeler Rally in South Dakota or San Diego or anywhere else. As much as I like my VTwin buy as new a Spyder as you can, especially the 2020+ have made a lot of improvements over the years since mine (2012). You will enjoy the open road experience no matter which engine you get. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

 

[Eckhard]

Though the V twin seems to be an excellent motor, the maintenance schedule calls for checking the valves and re-shimming them if necessary. This is not an inexpensive endeavor and totally unnecessary with the 1330 triple as it has hydraulic adjusters on the valves. I would have bought a 1330 just for that reason alone if it were not for the price difference.