Oil Level on 1330-engined Spyders, Chapter II

[BRPcare]

Thanks to a thoughtful note sent to me by forum member Jaybros, it's been brought to our attention that there was still some inconsistency in the messaging regarding oil changes and capacity. We'll work quickly to address those.

First, to avoid any confusion, here is the official, correct information:

• There is currently - as on June 23rd 2015 - only 1 1330 ACE engine configuration available. 2014/15 RT and 2015 F3 all have the same engine.
• The required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 4.7L or 5.0Qt.
• An oil quantity correction was made after production to avoid adding too much oil after an oil change and have to siphon it out rather than add oil to correct the level. During an oil change the amount of oil removed and needed to be added is never exactly the same, this is why a recommended amount to be added initially is given and then the procedure to verify the final level is used. A new dipstick is not necessary since the oil level in the oil tank doesn’t change, only the method of adding the initial amount before final level verification. In other words, it's easier to add more oil if you underfill than to remove excess oil if you overfill.
• Service bulletin 2014-7 “Shop Manual Modifications” was published August 2014 indicating changes to the PDF (web) version which included Engine Oil Level Verification and Engine Oil and Oil Filter Change.
• It is normal for a small engine, which includes a wet clutch and gearbox sharing the same oil, to shear down 20-30% within 1000-1500 miles but this shear flattens out and stabilizes for the remaining normal use interval. The 1330 ACE engine has been extensively tested to guarantee that 9300 miles is a safe oil change interval.

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Now, there are places where we'll have to make sure we update our instructions - evidently, we missed a couple:

• On page 126 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 219, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.3L or 5.6Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
• On page 129 of the 2015 F3 Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 534, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.6L or 5.9Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
• On page 161 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide and page 165 of the 2015 RT Operator's Guide the API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG are listed for the engine. On page 129 of the F3 Operator's Guide API service categories SL, SJ, SM, SN are listed for the engine. Are service categories SM and SN acceptable for the 2014 and 2015 RT engines? Publication error as shop manual specifications remain API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG.

 

[ulflyer]

Thanks Steve. This info is much appreciated.

A couple more questions for you: My '14 manual says the service catagories can be "SG, SH, SJ, SL OR HIGHER. This wording "or higher" means SN can be used if so rated as a motorcycle oil, however you seem to have dropped the SN off the F3 manual. Please clarify.

Second: Can you state what the oil weight of BRP oil Is?
I don't believe the containers say that it is 5-40 or 10-40 or anything.

Don't suppose you'd care to say who your supplier of oil is???

 

[trikermutha]

Does that mean now the oil change kits will have 5 quarts versus 7 quarts in the future??

 

[Lamonster]

Good info, I've shared it on all my pages. Thanks for the heads up. :doorag::thumbup:

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Steve, I am wondering why BRP didn't mail out a corrected page for the Owners Manual like they did when the maintenance schedule was changed a few years ago?

Also, for those of us with an SM would you please list the correct amount for us. (I have a copy of the update that Lamont posted but others may not have seen it.)

Thanks.

 

[BRPcare]

My '14 manual says the service catagories can be "SG, SH, SJ, SL OR HIGHER. This wording "or higher" means SN can be used if so rated as a motorcycle oil, however you seem to have dropped the SN off the F3 manual. Please clarify.

"Or higher" means that, at time of publication, this is what was available and that in the future higher ratings may become available and would be considered acceptable.

Second: Can you state what the oil weight of BRP oil Is? don't believe the containers say that it is 5-40 or 10-40 or anything.

It is is 5W40.

 

[Jim&Teresa]

Thanks - what is the mark on the oil dip stick indicating a "full" line?

I have added the correct amount of 5 quarts after oil/filter changes (3 oil changes - have 17,000+ miles on my 2014 RT). It looks very low on the dipstick. Are you saying that is OK (with the 5 quarts added after change) and that is the new "mark" for full?

 

[Bob Denman]

Steve,
Thanks!

We REALLY appreciate how well you put up with all of us! :thumbup:

 

[KX5062]

I am in no way trying to bust BRP's chops, however, Ann brought up and excellent point. I would take that one step further, which is a drop of 2 quarts in capacity is a massive change. Shouldn't BRP make available new dip sticks with the correct fill/full lines so that owners can accurately check their oil?

 

[JayBros]

I have added the correct amount of 5 quarts after oil/filter changes (3 oil changes - have 17,000+ miles on my 2014 RT). It looks very low on the dipstick. Are you saying that is OK (with the 5 quarts added after change) and that is the new "mark" for full?

OK, ready for this because it's counter-intuitive? If you change the filter and drain the canister, add 5.0 qt, bring it to operating temperature and check the level, http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-engined-Spyders&highlight=level+verification,
the level will show at the "Min" mark on the dipstick. See Steve's third bullet.

Now when the average bloke sees an oil level at the Min or low mark on a dipstick his brain says, "Add oil, dope." But if you know the required quantity is 5.0 qt and you put it in, the fact that the dipstick reads at the Min mark is immaterial.

FWIW, on the last oil change which was my first DIY I had the Spyder on ramps and let the engine & trans drain while I ate a leisurely lunch, refilled it with the 5 qt and it was at the Min level. The drain plugs are at the aft end of the oil sump and clutch cover so I believe I got out as much old oil as possible. YMMV.

 

[ulflyer]

Lower bump is full. top bump is overfill............or you could grind off the top bump.

 

[billybovine]

Don't understand the confusion.

The oil capacity has not changed. So the oil level in the oil tank has not changed. So the dipstick is correct as it has always been. Keep the oil level between min and max when hot. Seems simple enough to me.

What has changed is the initial fill amount after an oil change has been reduced so as not to risk an overfill. Because it is easier to add more oil than it is to suck the extra out.

 

[beast68]

So the correct way is change oil, add 5qts, run engine, check oil, add as needed.

 

[JayBros]

Don't understand the confusion.

The oil capacity has not changed. So the oil level in the oil tank has not changed. So the dipstick is correct as it has always been. Keep the oil level between min and max when hot. Seems simple enough to me.

What has changed is the initial fill amount after an oil change has been reduced so as not to risk an overfill. Because it is easier to add more oil than it is to suck the extra out.

Unlike the 998s the 1330s don't have a completely separate oil tank. The dry sump system in the engine is connected to an attached oil tank that is bolted to the engine block. Three scavenger pumps return oil to the tank from the very shallow engine sump beneath the crankshaft. By reducing the amount from 5.9 to 5.0 qt the level in the tank is changing, dropping to the Min mark on the dipstick. The dipstick reads the level in the tank so oil level on the stick shows lower although the capacity of the tank has not changed. It is my uneducated guess that the original larger quantity of oil recommended may have caused the scavenger pumps to work overtime to the detriment (alleged loss of power) of the engine trying to get that extra oil pumped into the tank when there wasn't enough room if the engine was overfilled when the recommended fill amount was 5.9 qt. http://parts.spyder.brp.com/Index.a...p7r2eegl1&catalog_id=0&language_id=1&siteid=1

 

[Bob Denman]

So the correct way is change oil, add 5qts, run engine, check oil add as needed.

If it was me; I'd add about 4 1/2 quarts, and then start checking the level... :shocked:
But essentially: :2thumbs:

 

[Jim&Teresa]

Thanks for the explanation

Unlike the 998s the 1330s don't have a completely separate oil tank. The dry sump system in the engine is using the transmission as the oil tank. Three scavenger pumps return oil to the transmission from the very shallow engine sump beneath the crankshaft. By reducing the amount from 5.9 to 5.0 qt the level in the transmission is changing, dropping to the Min mark on the dipstick. The dipstick reads the level in the transmission so oil level on the stick shows lower although the capacity of the transmission case has not changed. It is my uneducated guess that the original larger quantity of oil recommended may have caused the scavenger pumps to work overtime to the detriment (alleged loss of power) of the engine trying to get that extra oil pumped into the trans case when there wasn't enough room if the engine was overfilled when the recommended fill amount was 5.9 qt. http://parts.spyder.brp.com/Index.a...p7r2eegl1&catalog_id=0&language_id=1&siteid=1

Yes, I had read about power loss with being "too full" on oil with the 1330. Your comments make the most sense to me of everything else that I have read.....I'm keeping my oil just above the add line which is just a small amount more than the "official" 5 quart fill. I do the 5 quart fill each time I've changed the oil/filter (since the new info came out)....and it makes me worry a little when it's just at the add mark. Oh well, good discussion on the subject and I think your explanation helps the most so far.....thanks!

BTW - the 1330 has been AWESOME! Zero issues after 17,500 miles on my 2014 RT Limited - great machine!

 

[JayBros]

Bum Link

My apology that the link in post #14 did not show the engine lubrication system blow up as I thought it would. Here's what I intended to show.

 

[billybovine]

Unlike the 998s the 1330s don't have a completely separate oil tank. The dry sump system in the engine is connected to an attached oil tank that is bolted to the engine block. Three scavenger pumps return oil to the tank from the very shallow engine sump beneath the crankshaft. By reducing the amount from 5.9 to 5.0 qt the level in the tank is changing, dropping to the Min mark on the dipstick. The dipstick reads the level in the tank so oil level on the stick shows lower although the capacity of the tank has not changed. It is my uneducated guess that the original larger quantity of oil recommended may have caused the scavenger pumps to work overtime to the detriment (alleged loss of power) of the engine trying to get that extra oil pumped into the tank when there wasn't enough room if the engine was overfilled when the recommended fill amount was 5.9 qt. http://parts.spyder.brp.com/Index.a...p7r2eegl1&catalog_id=0&language_id=1&siteid=1

I am sorry but you give no reason not to believe BRP Care Steve. So that means you are incorrect IMHO. All that has changed is the initial fill amount and the dipstick is correct.

 

[JayBros]

Gee Billy, maybe I've been playing with this too long and have my brain mushed up. I hope that in no way I gave any indication that I do not believe Steve. My initial correspondence to him pointed out the differences in the three operator's guides for the 1330 engine. As he said, the initial tech note to dealers in August '14 changed the required oil change fill amount for the SE6 engine to 5.0 qt. I accept his explanation that adherence to the change will eliminate the need to siphon out extra oil. If one puts in the 5 qt required amount the dipstick will read at the Min level. If one wants to add more than the required 5 qt that's their business.

 

[ulflyer]

Now I'm Really Confused

Every since Lamont published back in '14 that the fill amount had been REDUCED and was now 5 qts (at least thats the way I read it) for the SE6 thats exactly what I've been doing. Dump the oil, bike level or sometimes front jacked up 10 inches, toss in 5 quarts, run engine awhile, and the level covers the lower nob of the dipstick. Since it uses no oil, that level remains steady till I change it again.

Are you folks now saying you read the instructions from Steve to mean, put in 5 qts, ride it around a bit, then top it off up to the top nob, or at least half way?

If so, what amount are we talking about here....6-8 oz?