Oil analysis @ 3 years & 9500 miles.

[1989hawk]

Go to bobistheoilguy forum and and put blackstone in the search.

 

[jjc54]

I have had my oil analyzed twice now, once with XPS at 8,900 miles and now with 9,000 miles on Amsoil. The XPS came back critical for viscosity 8.7 which equates to 20 weight oil. The amsoil came back for viscosity at 12.3 which is very close to 40 weight oil. This most recent amsoil was critical for oxidation (37) where XPS was at 10. There comments were: "Oxidation is at severe level. Drain interval may be over-extended or unit may be running too hot. Elevated Oxidation causes acid by-products, deposits, and sludge, and can increase viscosity and wear." Should I be concerned about this and does anyone have any other thoughts? The spyder has 43,000 miles on it now and the oil was in the spyder for 8 month and 9,000 miles with no observed mechanical problems other than the cam position sensor went out a week after I changed the oil. The oil tested had 200 miles on it when the cam position sensor went out, but it wasn't tested until 9,000 miles.

 

[AndysF3S]

If the oil only had 200 miles on it when you tested it and it showed oxidation at 37 I would tend to question the accuracy of that test?

If the oil had 9000m on it when tested and it was changed then, your fresh oil should be fine, but you may want to try a test earlier (say, 4500m?) to see if the oxidation number is more normal. If yes, continue on without an oil change; if no, then you may want to reduce the interval a bit?

Depending on your level of concern you have 3 choices: ignore, retest, or change the oil.

 

[jjc54]

If the oil only had 200 miles on it when you tested it and it showed oxidation at 37 I would tend to question the accuracy of that test?

If the oil had 9000m on it when tested and it was changed then, your fresh oil should be fine, but you may want to try a test earlier (say, 4500m?) to see if the oxidation number is more normal. If yes, continue on without an oil change; if no, then you may want to reduce the interval a bit?

Depending on your level of concern you have 3 choices: ignore, retest, or change the oil.

The oil had 9,000 when tested but was only at 200 when the CPS failed. Just trying to figure out this oxidation stuff.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have had my oil analyzed twice now, once with XPS at 8,900 miles and now with 9,000 miles on Amsoil. The XPS came back critical for viscosity 8.7 which equates to 20 weight oil. The amsoil came back for viscosity at 12.3 which is very close to 40 weight oil. This most recent amsoil was critical for oxidation (37) where XPS was at 10. There comments were: "Oxidation is at severe level. Drain interval may be over-extended or unit may be running too hot. Elevated Oxidation causes acid by-products, deposits, and sludge, and can increase viscosity and wear." Should I be concerned about this and does anyone have any other thoughts? The spyder has 43,000 miles on it now and the oil was in the spyder for 8 month and 9,000 miles with no observed mechanical problems other than the cam position sensor went out a week after I changed the oil. The oil tested had 200 miles on it when the cam position sensor went out, but it wasn't tested until 9,000 miles.

Do the reports show a Total Acid Number or Total Base Number (TBN or BN)? Here are a couple of good articles about oxidation in engine oil. https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/testing-engine-oil-oxidation/ and https://www.chevronlubricants.com/e...ment/used-engine-oil-analysis-tbn-vs-tan.html.

The info I find states if the base number drops below 3 then it's time to change the oil. I wonder how your lab determines the oxidation number, and what does it mean? Oxidation causes acid to build up in the oil and the base number is a measure of well the additives in the oil neutralize the acid. My oil reports don't show TAN nor oxidation which make me wonder how valuable that number is. How about posting the entire lab report here? I think several of us would like to see it.

 

[jjc54]

Do the reports show a Total Acid Number or Total Base Number (TBN or BN)? Here are a couple of good articles about oxidation in engine oil. https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/testing-engine-oil-oxidation/ and https://www.chevronlubricants.com/e...ment/used-engine-oil-analysis-tbn-vs-tan.html.

The info I find states if the base number drops below 3 then it's time to change the oil. I wonder how your lab determines the oxidation number, and what does it mean? Oxidation causes acid to build up in the oil and the base number is a measure of well the additives in the oil neutralize the acid. My oil reports don't show TAN nor oxidation which make me wonder how valuable that number is. How about posting the entire lab report here? I think several of us would like to see it.

Sample 1 is XPS and 2 is Amsoil.

 

[2dogs]

I ran my oil for 10,000 miles and just sent a sample in for analysis. I use Amsoil 10W40 and I have 60,000 miles on the spyder. Why did BRP pick 9,300? Previous analysis at 9,300 returned still usable. What would another 700 miles hurt? We'll see how it comes out.

 

[Mikey]

opcorn: Like watching Nascar, waiting for a wreck. But not with Amsoil!!!!:yikes:

 

[AndysF3S]

Thanks for posting the analysis, it is difficult to read but the comments in the upper part is where they talk about the oxidation number and not the TBN (total base number) which usually indicates how much protection against acid formation the used oil still retains. It might be helpful to ask the lab how or if oxidation relates to TBN? Amsoil usually has a higher TBN to combat acid formation.
The second comment is about minor fuel dilution which is at 3.? percent and the viscosity being reduced a bit. The cst reading converts to a 30 SAE wt. so definitely in the 10-40 range.

Did you take this oil sample after a long ride or just after a short warmup? The reason I ask is for me its unusual to see fuel dilution in a gasoline oil because it would tend to evaporate once the oil is up to temperature. If the oil was hot you may want to resample at a shorter interval and see what the analysis shows? Maybe you have a leaky injector but that is just a SWAG not a reason for concern if the engine is running well?

Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this analysis?

 

[jjc54]

Thanks for posting the analysis, it is difficult to read but the comments in the upper part is where they talk about the oxidation number and not the TBN (total base number) which usually indicates how much protection against acid formation the used oil still retains. It might be helpful to ask the lab how or if oxidation relates to TBN? Amsoil usually has a higher TBN to combat acid formation.
The second comment is about minor fuel dilution which is at 3.? percent and the viscosity being reduced a bit. The cst reading converts to a 30 SAE wt. so definitely in the 10-40 range.

Did you take this oil sample after a long ride or just after a short warmup? The reason I ask is for me its unusual to see fuel dilution in a gasoline oil because it would tend to evaporate once the oil is up to temperature. If the oil was hot you may want to resample at a shorter interval and see what the analysis shows? Maybe you have a leaky injector but that is just a SWAG not a reason for concern if the engine is running well?

Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this analysis?

The sample was taken after a 30 mile ride after a 15 minute off period while I jacked up the bike and removed the underbody splashpans. The lab uses 5 levels from 0-4 with 0 being normal and 4 being critical. Fuel dilution was 2.4% considered by them level 1. Iron was 173 or level 2. Oxidation was 37 level 4 critical. The previous sample the oxidation number was 10 normal. Iron was 173 level 2 last time 44 normal. Viscosity was 12.3 level 1 last time 8.7 critical. Tin was 1 considered normal last time was 3 level 2. There is a column just left of oxidation labeled Base No. D4739 with values in mg KOH/g. The value is 5.87 considered level 0. The previous sample was 4.00 considered level 0. You can read their comments on oxidation from my post #42. Thanks for your time.

 

[mecsw500]

I suspect BRP chose 9300 miles because that is almost exactly 15,000 kilometers in Canadian money.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I suspect BRP chose 9300 miles because that is almost exactly 15,000 kilometers in Canadian money.

I suspect BRP chose 9300 miles because that is almost exactly 15,000 kilometers in the Rest of the World.

Fixed that bit for you mecsw. :thumbup:

It will be a LOT easier when you lot do eventually catch up!! :sour: Not only for you (cos most of you do have only a total of ten digits on your hands, don't you? ) but also for the rest of the World too! hyea:

You've no idea how much of a pain it is having to convert back to the archaic system we left behind decades ago just so you all can understand!! :gaah:

Just Sayin' :roflblack:

:joke: :joke:

 

[BoatFixx]

I highly doubt moisture condensation is any concern in these Spyders, at least for the vast majority.

 

[BoatFixx]

The moisture accumulation is not huge, even in a high humidity environment like I have here in Tennessee. It's not like you're going to get a cup of water sitting at the bottom of your sump. It's more like a light dew which forms on engine surfaces above the oil line. However, even a small amount getting through the oil film to vulnerable iron parts can be significant, over time.

If you do your oil sample correctly (hot oil, mid-drain). Chances are that any moisture will have vaporized before the oil sample is taken.

Where the effects of water show up is in 2 places. As the bike sits, moisture can and does accumulate. If the oil does not adequately protect ferrous metal parts, rust will form. When you start the engine, this rust will be removed and washed into the oil. It is much too fine for the filter to remove and shows up as increased iron content in the sample.

There is a 2nd indication that your oil is not providing adequate protection from the inevitable moisture which accumulates in an engine/transmission with long periods between being brought to operating temperature (the oil, not coolant). Because moisture reacts with gasoline impurities in the oil to form a corrosive mixture which will attack other, non ferrous metals like Aluminum and Copper. These will show up in an analysis as well.

Too many falsely think that bringing the coolant to operating temperature with a high idle over the winter is a good idea. This practice has many downsides, including the possibility of making oil issues worse. It does have the single advantage of sending lubrication to parts that may have lost their protective coating. This benefit depends on the quality of the oil. Lesser oils tend to drain off and leave parts unprotected.

If you can't get out and ride far enough to get the oil to operating temperature. It is best to let your bike sit. Letting it run at idle for 15-20 minutes does more harm than good. The oil will not change temperature and remains cold. You can't burn off the moisture this way.

The OP's experience is similar to mine. Though my Spyder sat without running for 4.5 years. My oil sample came back with flying colors, just as his did. Not a comprehensive spread. Just another data point to throw into the mix.

As a 50 year Cummins Marine Diesel service I've seen many a diesel engine where moisture is an issue, and also riding motorcycles all those years, you nailed it with your dissertation, Ron!

 

[RealWing]

Interesting about your fuel dilution results. I was surprised to find that my dilution was 3% at my first oil change. I took it for a run of serval Km and it was fully warmed up, but maybe I should have run further. Will know when I change it again later this year. Amsoil 10w40 in it now.

 

[bikerbillone]

Right Bob, that was my interpretation, quite impressive. I do read the oil threads right on through the pop corn people.

 

[2dogs]

I ran my oil for 10,000 miles and just sent a sample in for analysis. I use Amsoil 10W40 and I have 60,000 miles on the spyder. Why did BRP pick 9,300? Previous analysis at 9,300 returned still usable. What would another 700 miles hurt? We'll see how it comes out.

Here's the results of my oil analysis of Amsoil at 10K miles.

Flagged data does not indicate an immediate need for maintenance action. Continue to observe the trend and monitor equipment and
fluid conditions. FUEL DILUTION is at a MODERATE LEVEL; Nickel is at a MINOR LEVEL; Possible valve train (valves, stems, guides etc.)
metal; LEAD is at a MINOR LEVEL and may be OVERLAY METAL from MAIN/ROD BEARINGS; Boron is slightly low for this lubricant. Boron
levels may naturally decline with use so this is not a cause for concern. Please provide COMPONENT MODEL number to compare data to
the correct standards for this component. Oil is suitable for continued use. Re-sample in 3,500 miles or 65 hours.

 

[jjc54]

What was the viscosity?

 

[Mikey]

opcorn:

 

[2dogs]

What was the viscosity?

13.7 @ 100 degrees C