Spyder Hawk
Member
Well there is no power to the supplied switch. The power I was getting yesterday must have been from the bike only. Could the relay be bad?
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Need a Wiring Diagram - for a seat heater?
- Thread starter Spyder Hawk
- Start date
Spyder Hawk
Member
Power is running to the relay though. I get power when I touch it with a probe and I hear it click on. It's when I test the pins at the other end, switch side, that I come up empty.
Spyder Hawk
Member
There is also a 5th pin on the relay that is not connected to anything.
The one in the center.
The one in the center.
Spyder Hawk
Member
After unplugging the relay and relocating the stray thin yellow wire to an alternate power source I was able to get it to turn on with the supplied switch. At least I know now that it does work. Now to make the BRP switch work with it or find a switch that will work with it.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
Now I am confused. What is the brand of the heater pads? Would you please stretch out the harness and draw a sketch of what color wire goes where. I'm having trouble figuring out how the pads work for high and low heat and what role the relay plays.
Spyder Hawk
Member
Billybovine suggested that the BRP switch might be a single pole and the one that came with the unit might be a double. Is there a way to find out which is what? I was able to get the BRP switch to work but it only has one level of heat and the light is not on. I purposefully didn't connect it because I thought it may be the problem. I think there was to much power going to it when it is only for the light. Going to tap the parking light and see if that makes a difference.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
It's exactly because of these questions that I'm wanting you to sketch out the wiring harness. The BRP switch is a single pole double throw. I cannot tell from what you have provided so far what the supplied switch is. I'm sure it's a double throw but whether it's a single pole or double pole I can't tell. Please, I need all the basic information about the heater pad in order to figure it all out. I'm sorry to be blunt but your approach so far has been kind of like trying to find a passage in a book while ignoring the table of contents. It just does not work.
SportsterDoc
New member
You are getting good advice from IdahoMtnSypder and billybovine.
However, without a multi-meter, it is difficult to advise remotely.
What can you provide regarding post #25?
However, without a multi-meter, it is difficult to advise remotely.
What can you provide regarding post #25?
SportsterDoc
New member
Photo 9 of 13 in post 13 shows the two heaters, which are two wire.
This indicates that either the heaters are single level (no hi-lo) or, as suggested by post 17, must be wired series or parallel.
The trick is doing that with the stock switch.
IdahoMtnSpyder has asked on the forum for a schematic, which may help.
In the meantime, how important are two heat levels for you?
This indicates that either the heaters are single level (no hi-lo) or, as suggested by post 17, must be wired series or parallel.
The trick is doing that with the stock switch.
IdahoMtnSpyder has asked on the forum for a schematic, which may help.
In the meantime, how important are two heat levels for you?
Spyder Hawk
Member
That is part of the problem. The harness is all sealed up inside a thick black cover. You can't see where the wires go or what they connect to. The heating unit is a Hi / Low kind of thing so I assume that is where the relay comes in.
From what I can see it is a simple Red and Black coming from the pads. They go into the relay and are joined by a yellow wire. From my above pic starting at the top it goes...
3 blacks
1 red
1 yellow
1 red
But when they come out of the harness to the switch they are...
1 red
1 black
1 yellow
1 white
I wrote to the seller and asked for another harness being that I don't trust this one.
From what I can see it is a simple Red and Black coming from the pads. They go into the relay and are joined by a yellow wire. From my above pic starting at the top it goes...
3 blacks
1 red
1 yellow
1 red
But when they come out of the harness to the switch they are...
1 red
1 black
1 yellow
1 white
I wrote to the seller and asked for another harness being that I don't trust this one.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
You do have something like a black and a red wire that has either a stripped end, like the yellow one, or a spade connector on the end, right? The red one with the fuse in it, right? You have to have those to get power and ground from the bike to the pads.
SportsterDoc
New member
Listing colors without a schematic may not help.
Testing resistance values might help, but requires a VOM.
IdahoMtnSpyder refered to a single pole, double throw switch (with or without a center off).
A SPDT switch has 3 terminals.
One is energized from the battery, directly or through a relay.
Single pole is making or breaking one wire (double pole is making or breaking two wires, simultaneously). See attached sketch. Need something like this for your heaters.
Double throw is making one or the other connections.
Bottom line is that a wiring diagram from the heater manufacturer could solve the problem, with a schematic of the Spyder switch.
Testing resistance values might help, but requires a VOM.
IdahoMtnSpyder refered to a single pole, double throw switch (with or without a center off).
A SPDT switch has 3 terminals.
One is energized from the battery, directly or through a relay.
Single pole is making or breaking one wire (double pole is making or breaking two wires, simultaneously). See attached sketch. Need something like this for your heaters.
Double throw is making one or the other connections.
Bottom line is that a wiring diagram from the heater manufacturer could solve the problem, with a schematic of the Spyder switch.
Attachments
billybovine
Active member
So I have been thinking. That could be dangerous!!
The relay is only acting as simple on off for the main power to the pads. That's why the light gage yellow wire is to be connected to a key switched circuit. It's the trigger voltage. So the battery is not drained if the switch is left on.
The red wire with the fuse in it is to be connected to a power source (battery) able to supply enough power for the pads. Does not need to be switched. The relay will handle that.
There must be a ground wire connected to chassis ground. Likely a black one.
There are 4 wires on the switch. One of them has to be a ground to make the high and low indicator lights on the switch work. So that leaves only 3 wires to operate the heating pads. Hey is that not the same as the BRP switch. So to make this all work there may be diodes in the heating pad harness. To stop back feed from series low heat mode to parallel high heat mode. So take some pictures of the heating pad switch terminals. Test the switch if you can to see which terminals connect with the switch. If it is a SPDT switch. The BRP switch can be made to work. If it is a different configuration. I am sure a Caring style switch can be found that will work and fit nice in the consol.
The relay is only acting as simple on off for the main power to the pads. That's why the light gage yellow wire is to be connected to a key switched circuit. It's the trigger voltage. So the battery is not drained if the switch is left on.
The red wire with the fuse in it is to be connected to a power source (battery) able to supply enough power for the pads. Does not need to be switched. The relay will handle that.
There must be a ground wire connected to chassis ground. Likely a black one.
There are 4 wires on the switch. One of them has to be a ground to make the high and low indicator lights on the switch work. So that leaves only 3 wires to operate the heating pads. Hey is that not the same as the BRP switch. So to make this all work there may be diodes in the heating pad harness. To stop back feed from series low heat mode to parallel high heat mode. So take some pictures of the heating pad switch terminals. Test the switch if you can to see which terminals connect with the switch. If it is a SPDT switch. The BRP switch can be made to work. If it is a different configuration. I am sure a Caring style switch can be found that will work and fit nice in the consol.
billybovine
Active member
Mac seems very confused based on his other thread. So just to maybe clear up some things. Attached 4 pictures.
1. The switch used for the BRP grip heater diagram.
2. Carling switch pinout for a 8 pin base.
3. The switch used for the BRP grip heater light circuit.
4. The grip heater wiring diagram.
So using the Carling numbering system. The switch backlighting is pin 7 and 8. The common power in is pin 2. The switched pins are 1 and 3. That is confirmed on the wiring diagram. BRP uses the same pin numbering system.
The problem is that BRP uses a grip heater with 2 different circuits. So a simple circuit with a SPDT switch. The seat heaters only have one circuit and use a in series or parallel config to control high or low heat. So we need to find a Carling style switch to replace the original switch.
1. The switch used for the BRP grip heater diagram.
2. Carling switch pinout for a 8 pin base.
3. The switch used for the BRP grip heater light circuit.
4. The grip heater wiring diagram.
So using the Carling numbering system. The switch backlighting is pin 7 and 8. The common power in is pin 2. The switched pins are 1 and 3. That is confirmed on the wiring diagram. BRP uses the same pin numbering system.
The problem is that BRP uses a grip heater with 2 different circuits. So a simple circuit with a SPDT switch. The seat heaters only have one circuit and use a in series or parallel config to control high or low heat. So we need to find a Carling style switch to replace the original switch.
Attachments
SportsterDoc
New member
Or use BRP stock switch and run only one heat?
billybovine
Active member
That's an option.
Spyder Hawk
Member
I hate that I am so helpless now. A few year ago this would not have been so difficult. Once again I would like to express my thanks to all of you. That being said here is a pic of the BRP switch in its working state, one heat setting only.
I wonder if the ground wire needs to be a chassis ground or does that matter? I read that the switch ground was for the switch light only. The ground for the heat pads is the battery ground I assume.
This pic is of the relay and I don't know what is going on in there. If the seller sends me another harness I can tear this one open and then we can see what is going on inside.
This is the supplied switch but I can't tell what is what.
I found one switch on Amazon but it is a spot as well. Which is what I have with the BRP switch I think. The didn't switches all have 7 pins.
There must be something going on in the harness because the white wire just comes out of nowhere. It's not on the relay so it must be coming out of the harness under all that bundled black mess. I assume that is where the diodes Billy mentioned might be.
I was able to get an old meter working but don't know what kind of numbers I am looking for. Would it help you all if I took readings from the switch?
I wonder if the ground wire needs to be a chassis ground or does that matter? I read that the switch ground was for the switch light only. The ground for the heat pads is the battery ground I assume.
This pic is of the relay and I don't know what is going on in there. If the seller sends me another harness I can tear this one open and then we can see what is going on inside.
This is the supplied switch but I can't tell what is what.
I found one switch on Amazon but it is a spot as well. Which is what I have with the BRP switch I think. The didn't switches all have 7 pins.
There must be something going on in the harness because the white wire just comes out of nowhere. It's not on the relay so it must be coming out of the harness under all that bundled black mess. I assume that is where the diodes Billy mentioned might be.
I was able to get an old meter working but don't know what kind of numbers I am looking for. Would it help you all if I took readings from the switch?
billybovine
Active member
In your first picture. The black wire is not doing anything. That terminal and the one beside it. Make the switch light up.
The second picture of the relay. All it is doing is turning on or off. It is a SPDT relay but as you mentioned earlier one terminal in not being used. So it is acting as only SPST. The thin yellow wire is the trigger for it and should be connected to a key switch circuit. Did you do that? Does the heating pad turn of with the key?
The third picture is the issue. We need to know what's going on in that switch. Right now we are guessing and you are getting confused by our guesses. Since there are high and low indicator lights on the heat pad switch. It needs a ground wire for the lights to work.
Just to double check.
The red wire in the pad harness with the fuse holder in it. Is connected to an unswitched power source like the battery + or jumper post +?
The black wire with the stripped wire, no connector, in the pad harness, is connected to chassis ground?
The thin yellow wire is connected to a switched by key circuit.
Spyder Hawk
Member
Red wire is connected to the + jumper post.
Black is connected to the - jumper post.
Yellow is connected to switched power. The power lead that was for the compressor being that I don't have one.
Heating pad does turn off with the key.
If I take a 12v power wire and add it to the No.1a pin I even get the lighted switch. All that is left is getting it to be two temperatures. It's 85 degrees outside right now so it is hard to tell when the seat is warming up. I will hook up the other switch and report back.
Black is connected to the - jumper post.
Yellow is connected to switched power. The power lead that was for the compressor being that I don't have one.
Heating pad does turn off with the key.
If I take a 12v power wire and add it to the No.1a pin I even get the lighted switch. All that is left is getting it to be two temperatures. It's 85 degrees outside right now so it is hard to tell when the seat is warming up. I will hook up the other switch and report back.
Spyder Hawk
Member
Do I possible need one of these? If there is no way to get what I have to work correctly.
I suppose that will require taking the harness apart.
I suppose that will require taking the harness apart.
