Mobil 1 racing 4T oil in the Spyder!!!!

[Sarge707]

Can,t find a Mobil Phone # and they didn,t answer my question?:dontknow:

 

[bruceofthebronx]

I second that.

Complete your message. Ken can be found at [email protected]. He can supply you not only with Amsoil but the needed filters and their seals. He's a straight shooter. No problems.

I've been buying from Ken for a bit now, the man is as good as they come.:thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

I skipped Mobile 1 and Amsoil Motorcycle oils cause they didn't have the recommended 5W40. they only have 10W40.

just to be safe I stuck with 5W40 and went with Motul full Synth.

Not a good reason to skip over a great oil. Many oils don't even meet the viscosity rating on the bottle. Many don't meet them very long (if they did when you opened the bottle).

BRP doen't recommend 5 weight because 10 weight will destroy or harm your engine. It's got more to do with cold weather starts (real cold) and fuel mileage (Minimal difference with 10w) than anything else.

For me, I like the heavier weight low end because I know what happens with transmission gears that run in light oil. They tend to wear more, especially if you ride hard, pull a trailer or ride 2 up.

Also, the greater the number spread between the low and the high, the less stable the oil. Not a big deal there, probably, if you're using a high quality product. But can be a real issue with cheaper brands.

Besides, the 'Blended' oil you get in the BRP bottle (which is the current recommended oil for the Spyder) is Castrol 10w-40. Only their 'Full Synthetic' oil is 5w-40. And I'm wondering if BRP decided that for warmer climates the 5w was too thin.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah:

 

[clueless]

actually the first number is the starting viscosity so I think it is better to get 5W40 then 10W40. Once it warms up they are BOTH 40 weight oil so you are not running thinner oil. same miles per gallon as well as they both are 40W at operating temp.

only if you went to 10W50 would you get a heavier oil or 20W50 like VTwin oil.

but back on topic... Motul 300V 4T is better than Mobile 1. do a search on the sportsbike race forums and you will see a lot of Motul supporters. its full Synth... guys are using this in racing bikes for past few years.

here is the data sheet for it = http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/datasheets/300V-4T%205w-40.pdf

PERFORMANCE:
STANDARDS Above existing standards (means it exceeds all standards not just meets them)...

So I think its better for you to get lower viscosity for better start up and the oil gets up to pressure faster to protect the engine on start-up better and then it warms and protects at SAE 40 when running....

bottom line: why spend this much $$ on a Spyder to use 10W40 instead of the recommended viscosity 5W40:hun:? just saying probably within the life of the motor will not make a difference... but you CAN get just a good quality or better quality oil in the 5W40 weight ...:thumbup:

 

[clueless]

here is a good read for oil in laymans terms... this is from an AMSOL pro website:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

from that article: I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone, usually an auto mechanic, say that they wouldn't use a 5W-30 motor oil because it is, "Too thin." Then they may use a 10W-30 or SAE 30 motor oil. At engine operating temperatures these oils are the same. The only time the 5W-30 oil is "thin" is at cold start up conditions where you need it to be "thin."

the spread as you say between the start weight and running weight of oil with Full Synthetics is not an issue especially between 5W40 and 10W40 is called in the article Viscosity Index. you will see FULL synth do not have as much issue as dyno oils with the Viscosity Index spread.

 

[BajaRon]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah:

Probably not, Rotella is a great oil. People worry about the wrong issues with oil sometimes. There is a lot of confusion (aided and abetted by some dealers).

Use a good approved oil, change it at regular intervals (including filter) and you'll get as much life out of your engine as possible.

My only point was that not using a very good oil simply because it is 10w instead of 5w, for the Spyder, is not a realistically valid reason. And there are actually some good reasons to prefer a 10w oil.

My point was not, in any way, that a 5w oil should be avoided.

If you are storing and riding the Spyder in very cold climates, a 5w oil is probably a better choice.

Though I've ridden mine in the low 20's with no issues at all.

 

[clueless]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah:

from the service manual:

just says to avoid motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification. clutch slippage will occur.


I thought there was one version of the Rotax oil that had the SM rating. Edit ... I see the one you posted has the SM rating.

 

[boborgera]

Probably not, Rotella is a great oil. People worry about the wrong issues with oil sometimes. There is a lot of confusion (aided and abetted by some dealers).

Use a good approved oil, change it at regular intervals (including filter) and you'll get as much life out of your engine as possible.

My only point was that not using a very good oil simply because it is 10w instead of 5w, for the Spyder, is not a realistically valid reason. And there are actually some good reasons to prefer a 10w oil.

My point was not, in any way, that a 5w oil should be avoided.

If you are storing and riding the Spyder in very cold climates, a 5w oil is probably a better choice.

Though I've ridden mine in the low 20's with no issues at all.

:dontknow:
I use 10/40 Motorcycle oil full Syn. The brand doesn't matter, i mix and match. And i ride in the single digits with out any problems. Most People have Cars/Trucks that cost twice as much as the Spyder,.
and I'll bet they don't even know what kind of oil there using.
The Spyder isn't a Baby that will get diarrhea if you change it's formula a little.

 

[NancysToy]

The use of SM or GF-4 rated oils was prohibited by BRP due to the friction modifiers some manufacturers used to achieve those ratings. Some of these were "too slippery", causing clutch slippage. Since the Spyder came out, the situation has become more confusing. First the Rotella-T, and now the Mobil1 4T, have changed their rating to SM. At the same time, though, they carry the JASO MA rating, which has been contrary to the SM rating in the past. My guess is that they are achieving the standards through a different formulation, that now allows the oil to meet several accepted standards.

The successful use of these oils is the key. If you have been using the newer products with no clutch slippage, you are probably OK...provided you do not have a lubrication related failure that needs warranty repairs. Use is still prohibited by BRP. I know some owners have had problems with the new-label Rotella-T, but they may have used 10W-40, which is a different formulation. I think our best bet is for owners currently using the rerated oils to report on their success or failure, and the specific brand, weight, and rating of oil they used, as well as how many oil changes they have used it, so we all know what is working in the real world.

 

[Bob Denman]

Baja... :thumbup: Great info!
Scotty, You are, as usual, right on point...
Since I'm one of the "uninformed" who will just about dump anything in a crankcase, I've now learned to actually READ THE LABEL!
Thanks guys!

(SM... "bad"... maybe!)

 

[Lamonster]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390

 

[NancysToy]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390

I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?

 

[Lamonster]

I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?

I don't recall to be honest Scotty :dontknow:

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

OIL

The use of SM or GF-4 rated oils was prohibited by BRP due to the friction modifiers some manufacturers used to achieve those ratings. Some of these were "too slippery", causing clutch slippage. Since the Spyder came out, the situation has become more confusing. First the Rotella-T, and now the Mobil1 4T, have changed their rating to SM. At the same time, though, they carry the JASO MA rating, which has been contrary to the SM rating in the past. My guess is that they are achieving the standards through a different formulation, that now allows the oil to meet several accepted standards.

The successful use of these oils is the key. If you have been using the newer products with no clutch slippage, you are probably OK...provided you do not have a lubrication related failure that needs warranty repairs. Use is still prohibited by BRP. I know some owners have had problems with the new-label Rotella-T, but they may have used 10W-40, which is a different formulation. I think our best bet is for owners currently using the rerated oils to report on their success or failure, and the specific brand, weight, and rating of oil they used, as well as how many oil changes they have used it, so we all know what is working in the real world.

:agree: If the oil is JASO-MA rated it should be good for any motorcycle, since that is the only true rating for motorcycle oil.

 

[Bob Denman]

I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?

:shocked: You guys are starting to scare me... :shocked: :roflblack:

 

[NancysToy]

:agree: If the oil is JASO-MA rated it should be good for any motorcycle, since that is the only true rating for motorcycle oil.

I agree, although your statement is a little incomplete. There are several JASO ratings, and some are not suitable for wet clutch use, while others are only suitable for two-stroke motorcycles. The JASO MA or MA-2 rating is the one we need.

The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are approved for wet clutch use. The JASO T904-MB standard is for dry clutch use only. It should also be noted that the JASO standards are aimed to meet the more stringent needs of air-cooled engines, which have much more severe operating conditions. Use in a liquid cooled engine is acceptable, and provides a high degreee of protection. Their requirements for non-corrosive additives are very applicable for all motorcycles, as well. The 2-stroke JASO standards, FA, FB, FC, etc., do not apply for our use.

Normally, seeing the JASO MA standard on the label, like with the new Mobil1 4T and the Shell Rotella-T, would mean everything was fine for our needs, but as Lamont said, he had trouble with the Rotella-T. The label and the weight of the one he used is uncertain, however, so the 5W-40 could be labeled differently and have different properties. We are going to need a bit more feedback to be comfortable with this one. A manufacturer can put almost anything they want to on their label. I am skeptical when the API SM rating and the JASO MA rating appear on the same label. I hope these oils can live up to their new labels.

In the end, it is each person's choice and their own risk. Using an API SM oil still violates warranty requirements.

 

[Dudley]

I used Royal Purple 10W40 automotive oil in the 2008 SE5 for 35,000 of the 43,000 miles I rode without any problems with the clutch. When I did the first oil change in the RT I put in RP 10W40 automotive oil. Royal Purple does not use any additives that will collect on the clutch and cause slippage. For me, 35,000 miles pretty much sealed my trust for Royal Purple.

 

[clueless]

10W40 versus 5W40 ... what I am getting at that seems to be lost:

YES you COULD use 10W40 or as lamont ended up in an emergency use 20W50 vtwin oil.

but WHY ?

why not use the recommended weight 5W40. with full synth there is no reason that 5W40 is less oil then 10W40 AND you get the lower initial viscosity which is always a good thing on startup and getting the oil thru the motor quicker on startup.

after the oil heats up you either 5W40 or 10W40 is the SAME weight running at SAE40 weight at operating temp so again no difference. So its a WIN WIN to use 5W40 over 10W40. all things being equal.

now onto the oil brand argument there IS good 5W40 oil brands out there and I am assuming but its not proven that the full synth BRP oil the gold bottle is 5W40 weight.

everyone should take a few mins and read the first few paragraphs of that website I linked to about oil weight... get educated my friends... http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

this all applies to full Synth oils not regular oil...

I am not picking a fight with Baja but I guess I am disagreeing with him about 5W versus 10W oil in our Spyders in reference to FULL synth oils. :chat:

others thoughts?

 

[IWN2RYD]

from the service manual:

just says to avoid motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification. clutch slippage will occur.


I thought there was one version of the Rotax oil that had the SM rating. Edit ... I see the one you posted has the SM rating.

Great... This is so frik'n frustrating.

I participated in a thread on this a while back. If memory serves me, even BRP's own oils did not meet the needs of the Spyder (specs wise). From that thread came the conclusion of the T6 being a good choice of oil, and for the price I felt it was the way to go.

Now because one of the many approval codes on the bottle I am finding out the choice in oil is bad? :gaah::chill:

I am not married to any brand. I do hate the sales pressure of the "Pyramid" type and Fanboys (not saying we have any, this is not my first rodeo is all I am saying and folks do go a bit to far at times, self included). I simply want to do what I do with my daily vehicles and that is get to 250,000 mile worth of time out of my bike. :chat: