spacetiger
New member
Forgot to mention the heat affect on the other parts like rubber [vacuum] hoses and electrical lines. I really wish Can Am went with double walled exhaust pipes for those pieces under the bodywork.
Jerry
Jerry
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There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.
Making the 2013 Spyder RT-S "Perfect"
- Thread starter stewartj239
- Start date
stewartj239
New member
The good thing about the ceramic coating is that it coats the inside of the headers as well as the outside. Since there is no double walled pipe, this is probably as good as it's going to get. Everything I've read up to now says that the ceramic coating is far superior to the heat wrap, but I will ask for opinions when I drop them off and I'll report back.
Bob Denman
New member
Good Luck! :thumbup:
Bob Denman
New member
That would be the catalytic converter... :thumbup:
stewartj239
New member
Bob has it right. Spyder1Attitude makes a Y-pipe that allows you to eliminate the catalytic converter. Luckily I live in a state that does not do emission testing as part of the yearly inspection, so it can be removed.
stewartj239
New member
I got the pipes dropped off yesterday and I asked them if there was any benefit to wrapping the headers after they have been coated and they said NO! They said that the heat wrap will actually destroy the ceramic over time and to not do it. When I got home, I did some of my own research on it and I did find some forums where people said that they did indeed ruin the ceramic coating due to adding the heat wrap to it. From what he was saying, and from what I understood, the heat wrap is actually abrasive and it expands at a different rate than the ceramic which can cause it to crack and flake.
Also, he asked if I wanted the black or silver ceramic coating and I asked what the difference was. He said that black can withstand higher temps ~ 2000 degrees and the silver is good up to ~ 1400 degrees. However, the silver is more durable and requires little or no maintenance (cleaning / polishing). Since the Spyder is actually a motorcycle, he said to go with the silver as the header won't get anywhere near the 1400 degree mark.
I won't have the pipes back for at least a week. I'll post pictures as soon as I get them.
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Bob Denman
New member
:thumbup: :bbq::bbq::bbq:
stewartj239
New member
The CAT is no doubt a source of heat on the Spyder and it sits right underneath the gas tank. On top of that, especially at a stop, heat does rise into the tupperware. As far as the warranty goes, if the need ever arose, you could always put the cat back on.
Another thing the shop told me is that ceramic coating the headers can reduce the emitted heat by over 50%. I'll let you guys know what the total cost was when they're done.
stewartj239
New member
I have given that some thought as well. However, I have an SM5 which comes with the footpegs instead of the floorboards. With that set up, the heat never hits my foot because it doesn't get far enough forward.
Magdave
New member
They do not make one for the 2013.
dancote
New member
I have to say that, in my 54+ years of riding and history of owning 50+ motorcycles / motorcycles with sidecars and scooters, and adding aftermarket seat solutions to several, I've never owned one that fit me so well right off the showroom floor as our 2013 Spyder RT SE5 that was ordered with Seal floorboards. A very close second was our Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive in terms of ergonomics. That one got sheepskin seat covers to make it "perfect".
I may explore adding a drive belt idler to tame the mild (but not insignificant) vibration sensed in the floorboards at certain RPMs.
I'd like more (and more accessible) power points. They'll be added over time.
For now, I don't care to explore audio enhancements. Even though I've paid close attention (I thought) to maintaining my hearing, it hasn't paid off. My Harleys always had stock mufflers and, if you haven't heard them, they're pretty quiet. I suspect that hours of wind noise on un-faired bikes and listening to tunes on my tourers at levels above wind/road/exhaust sound got me to where I am today. Maybe a bit of contribution from Navy carriers, jets and turbojets.
The only thing I'd like in the audio department is rider/passenger communication on the rare occasion when my wife rides with me.
Regards,
Dan
I may explore adding a drive belt idler to tame the mild (but not insignificant) vibration sensed in the floorboards at certain RPMs.
I'd like more (and more accessible) power points. They'll be added over time.
For now, I don't care to explore audio enhancements. Even though I've paid close attention (I thought) to maintaining my hearing, it hasn't paid off. My Harleys always had stock mufflers and, if you haven't heard them, they're pretty quiet. I suspect that hours of wind noise on un-faired bikes and listening to tunes on my tourers at levels above wind/road/exhaust sound got me to where I am today. Maybe a bit of contribution from Navy carriers, jets and turbojets.
The only thing I'd like in the audio department is rider/passenger communication on the rare occasion when my wife rides with me.
Regards,
Dan
stewartj239
New member
I think that a belt tensioner is going to be something that I might add during this round of changes. We usually get vibration between 55 and 65 mph.
I am currently looking into this. I've read that the best power source for the AutoTune is through the fuse box. I'm looking at the RT-S manual right now and it looks like fuse #6 in the right side box is open for accessories. I'm going to verify that it is open tomorrow morning and if so, I'll probably buy a fuse tap and wire the AutoTune through that. I assume it can be used for any other type of accessory as well.
den1953
New member
2013 with mods vs. 2014
You've made quite a quest of making these improvements to your 2013 RT. No doubt a lot of time, effort and money spent. My question is this, would it be better for me to just pay more up-front and get a 2014 and hope BRP has the issues fixed? Or get a 2013 at a discounted price (maybe even a low mileage used one) and tackle the mods as needed? Much is being done by owners such as yourself and being posted in this forum. What you are learning and doing would be valuable to owners who feel "stuck" with their 2013 Spyder RTs. I'm just wondering from my perspective of not being a Spyder owner yet as to what would be the best "bang for the buck". I admit that I am leaning towards the 2014 but better information will come as the early adopters find out how their Rydes perform long term.
You've made quite a quest of making these improvements to your 2013 RT. No doubt a lot of time, effort and money spent. My question is this, would it be better for me to just pay more up-front and get a 2014 and hope BRP has the issues fixed? Or get a 2013 at a discounted price (maybe even a low mileage used one) and tackle the mods as needed? Much is being done by owners such as yourself and being posted in this forum. What you are learning and doing would be valuable to owners who feel "stuck" with their 2013 Spyder RTs. I'm just wondering from my perspective of not being a Spyder owner yet as to what would be the best "bang for the buck". I admit that I am leaning towards the 2014 but better information will come as the early adopters find out how their Rydes perform long term.
stewartj239
New member
Before deciding to dump all of this money into all of these updates, I did consider a 2014, but here is why I decided to stick with the 2013:
- My wife and I have put over 4500 miles on our 2013 with no problems, so I am starting with a known base.
- I have not experienced any of the heat related horror stories that you have read about on this forum. I have no melted parts, boiling gas, hot seat, hot foot, etc.
- After doing my own research, and if you check the archives here, you will find that there are plenty of 2010 - 2012 RT owners who too complain about heat problems. Personally, it makes me wonder if these issues stretch all the way back to the earlier year models as well.
- Based on trade-in that I could have gotten plus all the money I am spending right now, I could have gotten into a 2014. I decided against it because the 2013 has the same updated chassis as the 2014 and I was not comfortable buying the 2014 which has the new, unproven engine. The V-Twin in the 2013 started life as a motorcycle engine and has been around for 10+ years. It is a proven design and very reliable. With those two points in mind, I personally feel that the 2013 is the platform to be on.
- The HP / torque difference between the 2013 and 2014 is nominal. I honestly expected them to go to a larger motor like the competition - 1600cc or 1800cc. I figure that once I swap out the catalytic converter, silencer, open the air box and add the PCV, then I'll be darn close to the output of the 2014. In addition, the engine reviews that I have read are not very appealing. One even stated that the 2013 had more grunt down low. I think the 2014 motor would be more important to me if I was hauling a trailer. But still, I would be uncomfortable with it being an unproven design.
- If you look at my list, everything on there is an enhancement for the Spyder, not a fix. I could live with it as it is, but with every bike that I have owned over the last 25+ years, I always modify it to make it as good as it can be. That is what I think I am doing here.
- Yes, I am doing some things that do reduce heat (cat removal, ceramic coating), but these are more of a reactive measure because of the heat issues that others are having. Honestly, if there were no reported issues, I would at least remove the CAT anyway just to open up the engine to let it run the way it was meant to.
- Lastly, I am definitely adding the PCV as a reactive measure. Hearing that some bikes are running hot and people are posting images of white spark plugs, that tells me that they are running lean - which could be the cause of their heat issues. If that is true, then the PCV will fix that problem. It makes me wonder if the fix is that simple.
Sorry for doing a complete brain dump here, but these were all of my justifications for doing these modifications. It does add up to a significant amount of money - over $5K. With that said, the two that I am excited most about is the ELKA suspension and ISCI front brake. Good luck with your purchasing decision and feel free to post back with questions or what you've decided.
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BigJohnP
New member
PVC
"PCV with AutoTune - To make sure I don't run too lean with the cat removal and Akrapovic, I'm adding the PCV - which I have past experience with. Also hearing that the rear cylinder can run leaner than the front, I'm adding the dual channel AutoTune so that each cylinder can be mapped independently."
Could you please explain just what this is for me. Not sure that I understand just what you are doing. I plan to do some mods to my :spyder2: as soon as I can get back in the shop. The removal of the CAT looks like it will make the list, so I would like understand this to the full.
Thanks for all the help your giving to us all. I love my :spyder2: and plan to keep my 2013 for a nice long time. So the better it runs the more I'll like it.
"PCV with AutoTune - To make sure I don't run too lean with the cat removal and Akrapovic, I'm adding the PCV - which I have past experience with. Also hearing that the rear cylinder can run leaner than the front, I'm adding the dual channel AutoTune so that each cylinder can be mapped independently."
Could you please explain just what this is for me. Not sure that I understand just what you are doing. I plan to do some mods to my :spyder2: as soon as I can get back in the shop. The removal of the CAT looks like it will make the list, so I would like understand this to the full.
Thanks for all the help your giving to us all. I love my :spyder2: and plan to keep my 2013 for a nice long time. So the better it runs the more I'll like it.
stewartj239
New member
The stock FI module on the Spyder is programmed by BRP and from what I have found on previous motorcycles, is less than optimal because the bike must be tuned to meet strict emission requirements. Beyond that, the stock FI module can adjust to small changes, such as adding an exhaust, but beyond that, it gets sketchy and the result is typically an engine that runs lean, pops on deceleration, surges, has an erratic idle, etc.
The Power Commander V (PCV) is made by Dyno Jet and it is a fuel management system. You start by loading one of the default maps that Dyno Jet provides into the PCV. From there, using your computer, you have total control of the settings that you want to make that determine how the FI will be mapped. For example, you can force it to run richer if you're currently running lean - you can't do this with the stock FI module. Another option is to find a dyno center and have them put your Spyder on a dyno which will create a custom map that is specific to your bike. This map is then loaded into the PCV. At this point, the map is fixed and does not adjust as conditions change, but is still way better than stock. Also, changing the default map is purely optional. You can just load it and let it be.
I have decided to add the AutoTune so that the FI mapping can be adjusted on the fly for temperature, altitude, etc. There are 2 models offered. The AT-200 requires an O2 sensor to be welded to ONE of the header pipes so that it can make the adjustments that are applied to BOTH cylinders. The AT-300 requires an O2 sensor to be welded to EACH header so that it can provide a custom map for EACH cylinder. I am going with the AT-300 because it is common for the rear cylinder on a V-Twin to run leaner than the front. The AT-300 will map each cylinder for what each needs.
Hopefully you don't find this to be overwhelming. Adding just the PCV is simple enough. Adding the AutoTune requires a little more work, but is actually pretty straight forward.
stewartj239
New member
While I have the Spyder torn apart, I decided to remove the evap canister to get rid of the gas odor that often filled the garage (and house) after it was parked. The link to the thread for doing this procedure is here:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?13298-Canisterectomy
As described in the procedure, I went out and purchased a gas filter, some fuel line, a bolt and a few clamps. I think the total cost was about $12. This was incredibly easy to do. The canister in on the right side of the engine. Once I popped the line from the gas tank (center) and purge valve (left), the canister simply pulls up and out from the bracket that holds it. The line still attached on the right is the drain line.
The next picture shows the fuel filter that was connected to the line from the gas tank (I have not yet attached the line to the other end of the filter). On the right is the bolt that was clamped that leads to the purge valve.
Both lines were then zip tied back to the upper part of the bracket. The next picture shows all of the space that was opened up by removing it. The canister consumed all of the space between the bracket (in front of the cylinder) and the frame rail. Best of all is that this modification can easily be reversed if necessary or desired. Getting rid of it should eliminate the emitted gas fumes and allow for more air to flow around the engine.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?13298-Canisterectomy
As described in the procedure, I went out and purchased a gas filter, some fuel line, a bolt and a few clamps. I think the total cost was about $12. This was incredibly easy to do. The canister in on the right side of the engine. Once I popped the line from the gas tank (center) and purge valve (left), the canister simply pulls up and out from the bracket that holds it. The line still attached on the right is the drain line.
The next picture shows the fuel filter that was connected to the line from the gas tank (I have not yet attached the line to the other end of the filter). On the right is the bolt that was clamped that leads to the purge valve.
Both lines were then zip tied back to the upper part of the bracket. The next picture shows all of the space that was opened up by removing it. The canister consumed all of the space between the bracket (in front of the cylinder) and the frame rail. Best of all is that this modification can easily be reversed if necessary or desired. Getting rid of it should eliminate the emitted gas fumes and allow for more air to flow around the engine.
stewartj239
New member
I did a quick comparison between the stock and Akrapovic silencers. The picture on the right really shows how much more compact the Akrapovic is. In addition, I put them both on the scale. The stock silencer weighs 20 lbs. The Akrapovic is just 10 lbs.
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