Lamonster Garage oil change recommendation

[PMK]

Lamonster Garage posted this on the FB Group, while many here do not endorse end of season oil changes and prefer start of season oil changes, from a best practices standpoint, end of season is better of the two.

Below is quoted from Lamonster Garage

“Putting your Spyder to bed for the season.

Change the engine oil and filter. - It is better to change the oil at the end of the riding season to remove contaminants and acids found in the oil which could affect seals and gaskets over a storage period. Lamonster Garage offers oil change kits for all Spyder engines that include the oil, filter(s), and necessary sealing washers and o-rings.

We have a good stock of oil and oil kits ready to ship if you plan on doing your own oil change. If you're local we can do this for you. Here's a link to our oil and filter kits.”


https://lamonstergarage.com/oil-change-kits/

 

[ARtraveler]

:agree: from the standpoint of getting rid of the contaminants.

Fortunately, we can drive here 12 months a year...with three or so days where it is too cold or there is brief snow on the ground.

Mine are now used 12 months a year, with no storage time.

 

[PMK]

:agree: from the standpoint of getting rid of the contaminants.

Fortunately, we can drive here 12 months a year...with three or so days where it is too cold or there is brief snow on the ground.

Mine are now used 12 months a year, with no storage time.

Same here for SoFlo, pretty much all year riding if we want.

Lamonster did open his words with “Putting your Spyder to bed for the season”.
Obviously applies to about 2/3 of these United States, but not all of us.

 

[PMK]

Some entrepreneurs will say just about anything to scare the money out of you.

Actually, what Lamont wrote, is not made up, but rather a proven best practice.

Sadly, many posts here, on a multitude of topics, are merely folks parroting something they heard and take as gospel. With that much incorrect information, yet spread around as truths.

Oh well.

 

[ARtraveler]

RE: Bad information based on "myths."

This site is mostly self correcting when "bad" information is posted. Many of the "guru's" will jump in and immediately correct the "errant" poster.

In the event of an "egregious" error, the moderators could step in. We have not had to do that very often. The site takes care of itself on that subject. :bowdown:

 

[Cobwebs]

Oil thread, yippee

I often wondered if with the advent of newer synthetic oils the contaminents and acids were such an issue any more ? :dontknow: Happy to be schooled though.
I guess there's always the oil analysis option to prove it one way or the other but most people aren't that pedantic so just go the 'change it anyway' route for peace of mind, albeit possibly wasting good oil and consumables. Heck some guys here never change drain plug o ringsray: apparently so how much acid does it take to screw those up? :dontknow:

 

[PMK]

I often wondered if with the advent of newer synthetic oils the contaminents and acids were such an issue any more ? :dontknow: Happy to be schooled though.
I guess there's always the oil analysis option to prove it one way or the other but most people aren't that pedantic so just go the 'change it anyway' route for peace of mind, albeit possibly wasting good oil and consumables. Heck some guys here never change drain plug o ringsray: apparently so how much acid does it take to screw those up? :dontknow:

The obvious answer is new oil after a proper oil change does not have the contaminants within the oil. Since oil analysis programs will display items witnessed during SOAP tests, these are considered for either drained oil, or inservice oils.

It would be interesting to obtain the recommendations offered up by these oil analysis labs regarding best practices for engine storage. Granted the storage time interval is a viable variable. For many folks that do stop riding during cooler seasons, it could be as much as 6 months time. Obviously ambient storage conditions are a factor also.

As a total guess, but based on my experience with storage of aircraft piston engines, it is recommended to drain or replace oil, cap openings, and ideally place Silica Gel material to retain dryness of the internal engine. This could be special silica gel holding plastic spark plug inserts, placing silica gel pouches into the fuel injector air inlet, and even placing silica gel pouches into exhaust ports, all done as the engine is sealed. Also not uncommon could be fogging the engine cylinders. Typically this short term storage is valid for approximately 6 months, at which time all silica gel items are replaced or dried.

Consider also, while an average Spyder owner may not ride the specified oil change interval of 9300 miles within a year, the owners manual does place a 12 month calendar interval on oil changes. Granted that oil may have much life left within it.

So what is better regarding a stored Spyder engine / gearbox? If you are storing your Spyder, change oil prior to storage vs when put back into service after storage. The true best is ride year round.
As for SOAP tests, enough have been accomplished and posted here that demonstrates at what point the gearbox has shredded the oil molecules. If the Spyder was to have an isolated engine oil and isolated gearbox oil system, the engine oil would last probably 25,000 miles before shredded. Regarding the gearbox, a better, gearbox product that worked with wet clutches could be utilized also. Unfortunately, the shared system has compromises, and with that, the oil, being the common factor is subject to what are best practices.

 

[Mikey]

:bdh: Tires and oil, got to love them!!!

 

[PMK]

:bdh: Tires and oil, got to love them!!!

Not quite on this one. Certainly not about what tires or oil is best.

As for the oil that is best, that’s easy. Go with the facts posted by 540RAT.
As for the best tires, still believe performance tires on a Spyder are superior except for tread life, than touring tires.

 

[Cobwebs]

The obvious answer is new oil after a proper oil change does not have the contaminants within the oil. Since oil analysis programs will display items witnessed during SOAP tests, these are considered for either drained oil, or inservice oils.

It would be interesting to obtain the recommendations offered up by these oil analysis labs regarding best practices for engine storage. Granted the storage time interval is a viable variable. For many folks that do stop riding during cooler seasons, it could be as much as 6 months time. Obviously ambient storage conditions are a factor also.

As a total guess, but based on my experience with storage of aircraft piston engines, it is recommended to drain or replace oil, cap openings, and ideally place Silica Gel material to retain dryness of the internal engine. This could be special silica gel holding plastic spark plug inserts, placing silica gel pouches into the fuel injector air inlet, and even placing silica gel pouches into exhaust ports, all done as the engine is sealed. Also not uncommon could be fogging the engine cylinders. Typically this short term storage is valid for approximately 6 months, at which time all silica gel items are replaced or dried.

Consider also, while an average Spyder owner may not ride the specified oil change interval of 9300 miles within a year, the owners manual does place a 12 month calendar interval on oil changes. Granted that oil may have much life left within it.

So what is better regarding a stored Spyder engine / gearbox? If you are storing your Spyder, change oil prior to storage vs when put back into service after storage. The true best is ride year round.
As for SOAP tests, enough have been accomplished and posted here that demonstrates at what point the gearbox has shredded the oil molecules. If the Spyder was to have an isolated engine oil and isolated gearbox oil system, the engine oil would last probably 25,000 miles before shredded. Regarding the gearbox, a better, gearbox product that worked with wet clutches could be utilized also. Unfortunately, the shared system has compromises, and with that, the oil, being the common factor is subject to what are best practices.

Would you consider firing up the engine every month to recoat the internals an alternative ? I know the usual answer is , doesn't get hot enough only adds contaminents etc but they said that before synthetics. Regardless of the condition of the oil sheared or not I always thought some movement was better than none, not like your loading up any bearing surfaces idling in the shed.Proves the health of your battery as well.
My experience with putting stuff to bed has been a brilliant day arrives or a need out of the ordinary surfaces and all those carefully structured plans get tossed out the window and I join the 'what am I paying top dollar for high spec oils for anyway' club. What we have to change oil out after the ride. Just not practical and a waste of money and resources for me for what amounts to hearsay.

 

[PMK]

Would you consider firing up the engine every month to recoat the internals an alternative ? I know the usual answer is , doesn't get hot enough only adds contaminents etc but they said that before synthetics. Regardless of the condition of the oil sheared or not I always thought some movement was better than none, not like your loading up any bearing surfaces idling in the shed.Proves the health of your battery as well.
My experience with putting stuff to bed has been a brilliant day arrives or a need out of the ordinary surfaces and all those carefully structured plans get tossed out the window and I join the 'what am I paying top dollar for high spec oils for anyway' club. What we have to change oil out after the ride. Just not practical and a waste of money and resources for me for what amounts to hearsay.

What you posted about starting the machine to recoat moving parts will absolutely work. The key though, in order to be done correctly and worthwhile, the engine must be run around 30 minutes after getting up to full temp. This ensure boiling off any moisture inside the engine from condensation. Once fully warmed with the rear tire raised safely off the ground, select first gear and let the transmission spin a while. That will recoat all the gears, shafts and bearings, plus lube any seals. Seems easy enough.

Years ago, typical engines did not run coated bores. Modern performance engines, like that in the Spyder have cast aluminum cylinders that are plated with Nikasil. So corrosion of the cylinder does not happen.

Honestly, rather than run the engine, you might get better result putting a high watt light bulb under the machine to keep it warm and dry.

 

[Mikey]

opcorn::2thumbs: PMK, honestly, should I change my oil at the end of the season before I put it to bed for the winter, YES, but do I, NO, because I've got to much other stuff to get out and work on! I use what I feel is a great oil and I feel that leaving it in until spring will not hurt a thing! The thing we should all do is do what we think works for us, and stuff the rest!!! Can't wait till next season already!!!:cheers:

 

[PMK]

opcorn::2thumbs: PMK, honestly, should I change my oil at the end of the season before I put it to bed for the winter, YES, but do I, NO, because I've got to much other stuff to get out and work on! I use what I feel is a great oil and I feel that leaving it in until spring will not hurt a thing! The thing we should all do is do what we think works for us, and stuff the rest!!! Can't wait till next season already!!!:cheers:

ABSOLUTELY!!!
If you scan back a few posts, (reference what I quoted from another persons post in #4) there was a post where a person stated that fear was being used to sell more product. I checked, and apparently, that post has been removed, and with that, it does change the context of many of these replies.

It is not instilling fear to sell product, rather it is proven fact that “THE BEST” practices are to properly drain the oil and reservice at the end of the riding season, prior to storage. This is even stated in the Spyder owners manual that many folks here tell others to reference regarding a multitude of subjects.

I have no issue with a person changing oil more frequently than recommended, changing oil at the end of the ride season, changing oil at the beginning of ride season, or even going several years until the change interval mileage is met.

However, accusing fear to sell product, when the facts do not support this is entirely wrong.

On a similar note, you will likely agree that folks here are all over the place in regards to brake fluid flush and bleed intervals.