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Hydraulic Handbrake Alternative, And Alternative to Cables
- Thread starter NEXUS
- Start date
Great, thanks for the tip and repairing the text Lamont.
Continuing the hand brake saga.
Removing the RH Driver Foot Rest, as Can Am identifies it, has proved the most difficult and frustrating part of the project, so far.
After removing the four 8mm flange bolts, one of which need a U-joint on the socket drive to reach it, I found that getting the foot rest bracket out away from the master cylinder boot and off of the bike, was like working a Chinese puzzle. The edge of the bracket where the master cylinder mounts was caught behind a bolt end and bracket that was part of the main frame. After trying all of the angles of pulling and pushing I could use, I finally wrestled it away from the bike. I hope I didn't damage the boot on the cylinder. Before I re-installed the foot rest mount I ground away part of that edge so that it would be easier to get it past that bolt and flange. Can Am human engineering -grrrr!
Now with the mount, and brake pedal which is part of it, off of the bike I measured the distance from the surface of the casting to the center of the brake pedal where the factory clevis mounts. I came up with 31mm. This will be where the center of my slave cylinder will have to be aligned.
I will be mounting my slave cylinder using the same bosses in the foot rest casting that Nexus used but with one difference. Instead of tapping a thread into the hole in those bosses I drilled all the way through to the outside of the casting so I could use through bolts with nuts. This means I will have bolt heads showing on the outside, but I think the increase in strength over holes threaded part way into the casting is worth a little cosmetic damage.
The upper boss is a bigger diameter than the lower boss. I drilled the upper (larger) boss 5/16" diameter and the lower (smaller) boss 1/4". I will use an 8mm flange head bolt in the upper hole and, departing from metric, I will use a 1/4-28 "grade-8" bolt through the lower hole.
Another advantage to using through mounting holes is; when I get my slave cylinder mounting bracket fabricated I can position the cylinder where it needs to be, with the bracket on it, and using the through holes in the foot rest bracket, mark the hole locations in the cylinder bracket.
Tune in tomorrow folks, for another exciting episode................. :2excited:
Continuing the hand brake saga.
Removing the RH Driver Foot Rest, as Can Am identifies it, has proved the most difficult and frustrating part of the project, so far.
After removing the four 8mm flange bolts, one of which need a U-joint on the socket drive to reach it, I found that getting the foot rest bracket out away from the master cylinder boot and off of the bike, was like working a Chinese puzzle. The edge of the bracket where the master cylinder mounts was caught behind a bolt end and bracket that was part of the main frame. After trying all of the angles of pulling and pushing I could use, I finally wrestled it away from the bike. I hope I didn't damage the boot on the cylinder. Before I re-installed the foot rest mount I ground away part of that edge so that it would be easier to get it past that bolt and flange. Can Am human engineering -grrrr!
Now with the mount, and brake pedal which is part of it, off of the bike I measured the distance from the surface of the casting to the center of the brake pedal where the factory clevis mounts. I came up with 31mm. This will be where the center of my slave cylinder will have to be aligned.
I will be mounting my slave cylinder using the same bosses in the foot rest casting that Nexus used but with one difference. Instead of tapping a thread into the hole in those bosses I drilled all the way through to the outside of the casting so I could use through bolts with nuts. This means I will have bolt heads showing on the outside, but I think the increase in strength over holes threaded part way into the casting is worth a little cosmetic damage.
The upper boss is a bigger diameter than the lower boss. I drilled the upper (larger) boss 5/16" diameter and the lower (smaller) boss 1/4". I will use an 8mm flange head bolt in the upper hole and, departing from metric, I will use a 1/4-28 "grade-8" bolt through the lower hole.
Another advantage to using through mounting holes is; when I get my slave cylinder mounting bracket fabricated I can position the cylinder where it needs to be, with the bracket on it, and using the through holes in the foot rest bracket, mark the hole locations in the cylinder bracket.
Tune in tomorrow folks, for another exciting episode................. :2excited:
bjt
Very Helpful Member
Any chance of you throwing in pics of the stuff you are talking about throughout you post? I'm not exactly a well versed Spyder mechanic and about the second sentence of the step by step text had me starting to go off into the ozone layer.
Any chance of you throwing in pics of the stuff you are talking about throughout you post? I'm not exactly a well versed Spyder mechanic and about the second sentence of the step by step text had me starting to go off into the ozone layer.A few key pictures would help to clarify what you are talking about.
Make it 2. :dontknow:
Any chance of you throwing in pics of the stuff you are talking about throughout you post? I'm not exactly a well versed Spyder mechanic and about the second sentence of the step by step text had me starting to go off into the ozone layer.A few key pictures would help to clarify what you are talking about.
Unfortunately, Lamonster changed this forum so that we have to use another photo sharing web site in order to post photos here. I used to post photos on this forum but I'm not inclined to use a photo sharing web site, so I can no longer post photos here.
However, I have been taking photos at every step of the project.
Last edited:
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
Not so, you can upload them from your post or load them to your photo gallery in your userCP.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/usercp.php
Here's the videos that show you how to do it.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8044
The continuing saga:
Yesterday I set out to find the clevis. Since I live on what people say is the largest pleasure boat harbor in the world and sail boats use many clevises, I headed out to our local West Marine store to look at their selection of same. Not so! They had a good selection of clevis pins but no clevises. A salesman explained that people drop clevis pins overboard but seldom lose a clevis so West carries replacement pins only.
At this point I began to think that Nexus was very fortunate to find a clevis he could use, at a local hardware store. I figured I could end up wasting the day trying to find a store that catered to boat builders instead of boat users and then maybe not find one the right size. So I decided to head to my shop and machine my own clevis. However, I did buy a clevis pin and a little bag of stainless cotter pins at West before leaving the store. I would need a longer pin to replace the one on the Spyder when I added my clevis to the stack. I purchased a 5/16" x 1" pin which turned out to be just the right length.
Back at the shop I started looking at my assortment of metal odds and ends. I didn't want to use steel because I would have to get it plated or powder coated to prevent rusting - more hassle. So, it had to be either aluminum, brass or stainless. Aluminum would wear fast, stainless would wear well but be a slow machining process, I decided brass was a good compromise between those.
Before starting this, I went over to the hose company (Mesa Hose) and had them make me up the hydraulic hose, since it was Friday and they are not open weekends. I also purcased from them a flare fitting, like to one that came on the cylinder, but a right angle one. That would shorten my hose length requirement by letting the hose come straight up from the end of the cylinder. I had them make a 60" hose while I waited. I chose the type that has a protective plastic sleeve over the metal braid so I wouldn't have to worry about abraiding on parts of the bike.
Back to the clevis project: I could have used round bar stock but I just happened to have a piece of 1" hexagonal brass bar stock. That works well because it can be chucked in a lathe's three jaw chuck for drilling the shaft hole and still has flat sides for aligning in a mill vise for cutting the 5/8" wide slot, and drilling the pin hole, that makes it a clevis.
The clevis turned out great but by the time I had mounted it on the Spyder brake pedal, it was time to put everything back together so I could ride back home from my shop (~ 3 miles). Having to have the Spyder in riding shape every day definitely slows up this project.
Today the job will be to fabricate the right angle bracket that will mount the slave cylinder to the foot rest bracket. Instead of using steel, as Nexus did, I will use aluminum but of course thicker than his bracket was, in order to make up for the reduction in strength of the metal used. I sure don't want this bracket bending under load!
Stay tuned.............................
opcorn:
Yesterday I set out to find the clevis. Since I live on what people say is the largest pleasure boat harbor in the world and sail boats use many clevises, I headed out to our local West Marine store to look at their selection of same. Not so! They had a good selection of clevis pins but no clevises. A salesman explained that people drop clevis pins overboard but seldom lose a clevis so West carries replacement pins only.
At this point I began to think that Nexus was very fortunate to find a clevis he could use, at a local hardware store. I figured I could end up wasting the day trying to find a store that catered to boat builders instead of boat users and then maybe not find one the right size. So I decided to head to my shop and machine my own clevis. However, I did buy a clevis pin and a little bag of stainless cotter pins at West before leaving the store. I would need a longer pin to replace the one on the Spyder when I added my clevis to the stack. I purchased a 5/16" x 1" pin which turned out to be just the right length.
Back at the shop I started looking at my assortment of metal odds and ends. I didn't want to use steel because I would have to get it plated or powder coated to prevent rusting - more hassle. So, it had to be either aluminum, brass or stainless. Aluminum would wear fast, stainless would wear well but be a slow machining process, I decided brass was a good compromise between those.
Before starting this, I went over to the hose company (Mesa Hose) and had them make me up the hydraulic hose, since it was Friday and they are not open weekends. I also purcased from them a flare fitting, like to one that came on the cylinder, but a right angle one. That would shorten my hose length requirement by letting the hose come straight up from the end of the cylinder. I had them make a 60" hose while I waited. I chose the type that has a protective plastic sleeve over the metal braid so I wouldn't have to worry about abraiding on parts of the bike.
Back to the clevis project: I could have used round bar stock but I just happened to have a piece of 1" hexagonal brass bar stock. That works well because it can be chucked in a lathe's three jaw chuck for drilling the shaft hole and still has flat sides for aligning in a mill vise for cutting the 5/8" wide slot, and drilling the pin hole, that makes it a clevis.
The clevis turned out great but by the time I had mounted it on the Spyder brake pedal, it was time to put everything back together so I could ride back home from my shop (~ 3 miles). Having to have the Spyder in riding shape every day definitely slows up this project.
Today the job will be to fabricate the right angle bracket that will mount the slave cylinder to the foot rest bracket. Instead of using steel, as Nexus did, I will use aluminum but of course thicker than his bracket was, in order to make up for the reduction in strength of the metal used. I sure don't want this bracket bending under load!
Stay tuned.............................
opcorn:I fabricated the mounting bracket and now the slave cylinder is mounted on the Spyder. For the bracket I had in my metal stock a length of aluminum angle. I cut off a piece four inches long to start with so I could trim it to length after the holes were drilled. The original size of the angle was 3"x 3" x 1/4" x 4" long. 1-1/2" below what would be the top of the bracket, I used a hole saw to cut a 1-1/4" diameter hole, 1.221" (31mm) from the mounting surface. Temporarily mounting the cylinder in the hole I aligned it with the clevis and C-clamped the bracket to the foot rest bracket at this position. Then I used center locating punches (5/16" & 1/4" dia.) to center punch where the mounting holes would be drilled in the cylinder mounting bracket. In drilling the holes in the bracket, I used letter drills so I could go slightly oversize by 10 t0 15 thousandths to give me a little slop in the hole alignment. I used nylock nuts and grade-8 washers against the inside of the bracket. The only end of the bracket that I trimmed off was the bottom end. The upper mounting hole was 5/8" from the top end. I also trimmed off excess material from both sides of the bracket.
Today I'll connect the hydraulic hose, fill the system, and begin the bleeding process. Bleeding hydraulic brakes is among my least favorite things to do. I usually end up with fluid all over the place and myself. :sour:
Tomorrow i'll report on how it all went.
Today I'll connect the hydraulic hose, fill the system, and begin the bleeding process. Bleeding hydraulic brakes is among my least favorite things to do. I usually end up with fluid all over the place and myself. :sour:
Tomorrow i'll report on how it all went.
Success! I now have a working hand brake on my Spyder. :yes: I'll attempt the photo uploading process in another posting as soon as I go through my photos and pick the most representative of the project and reduce their sizes. I had missed Lamontster's instructions on how to do the uploading.
I want to thank NEXUS for spending the time and money to do the trial and error work to determine the sizes of the cylinders needed to do the job. If I had started from scratch, I would have started too small, as he did, and have to work up. That is, if I could have found the parts needed to do the job in the first place. It was great for me to have the part numbers and sources right there in his posts, to use. Thank you Bill (NEXUS).
I also want to say something about tackling this project. I'm sure some people smiled when I would mention using my lathe, mill, saw, etc., and going to my own metal supply shelf for the raw materials. I always laughed when that guy on the TV woodworking program would have all the power tools it would seem only God would know about. It took me many years to accumulate this stuff. Someone with the patience and some skill could do it like I used to - using a few basic tools and a lot of time. The simple raw materials can be found with some searching.
The main thing I want to stress, just as NEXUS did, is that you will be working with a part of your bike that can mean injury or death if you don't do it right. Think about each step you take in the project and think; "how can this fail or otherwise go wrong"? In this case I would say that overkill is always preferable to under-kill. Weight is not critical, this isn't an aircraft we are working on. If this added hand system failed to work, we still have the factory foot brake to fall back on, so the worst failure (in my opinion) would be to have this system get in the way of the brake lever returning to nuetral and forcing the Spyder to a complete stop when maybe it would be dangerous to do so. A word to the wise; save the six pack until after the job is done. :cheers:
BTW - In true fasion, I did get brake fluid all over the place.
pps: I'm pleased to discover that it doesn't attack the Spyder's plastic. In fact I now have some clean spots on my Spyder. :thumbup:
I want to thank NEXUS for spending the time and money to do the trial and error work to determine the sizes of the cylinders needed to do the job. If I had started from scratch, I would have started too small, as he did, and have to work up. That is, if I could have found the parts needed to do the job in the first place. It was great for me to have the part numbers and sources right there in his posts, to use. Thank you Bill (NEXUS).
I also want to say something about tackling this project. I'm sure some people smiled when I would mention using my lathe, mill, saw, etc., and going to my own metal supply shelf for the raw materials. I always laughed when that guy on the TV woodworking program would have all the power tools it would seem only God would know about. It took me many years to accumulate this stuff. Someone with the patience and some skill could do it like I used to - using a few basic tools and a lot of time. The simple raw materials can be found with some searching.
The main thing I want to stress, just as NEXUS did, is that you will be working with a part of your bike that can mean injury or death if you don't do it right. Think about each step you take in the project and think; "how can this fail or otherwise go wrong"? In this case I would say that overkill is always preferable to under-kill. Weight is not critical, this isn't an aircraft we are working on. If this added hand system failed to work, we still have the factory foot brake to fall back on, so the worst failure (in my opinion) would be to have this system get in the way of the brake lever returning to nuetral and forcing the Spyder to a complete stop when maybe it would be dangerous to do so. A word to the wise; save the six pack until after the job is done. :cheers:
BTW - In true fasion, I did get brake fluid all over the place.
pps: I'm pleased to discover that it doesn't attack the Spyder's plastic. In fact I now have some clean spots on my Spyder. :thumbup:One thing I forgot to mention in my running description of the project. Since I made my own clevis I elected to have the end of the slave cylinder shaft push against the bottom of the 5/16" diameter x 5/8" deep hole, instead of the nut pushing against the end as NEXUS did. I still put the nut on the threaded shaft to hold back the boot and I used medium loktight to keep it from moving. The nut never touches the end of the clevis. As did NEXUS, I left a little space between the end of the shaft and the bottom of the hole when the brake is at rest position, to make sure that the slave cylinder NEVER acts as a stop for the brake pedal.
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
I'm still looking into the hydraulic system and I have gathered up some parts to do so but I don't want to have to shim controls to make it work.
You did a great job on yours but I'm going a little bit of a different route.
Soon as it warms up I'm going to play a little more with the cable setup and maybe between No Magic and myself working on it we can come up with something that works right the first time and is a true boltup system.
This might help you a little more with the picture thing.:doorag:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8563
When you bled the system did you put a piece of tubing over the bleeder? Keeps the brake fluid from getting all over.
Yes I did. I am using a tube that goes to the bottom of a bottle of fluid, so that I don't suck any air back up the tube and into the bleed valve.
Most of the fluid came from the master cylinder up on the handlebar. I didn't notice that every time I squeezed it, a little "old faithful" geyser would shoot up at the very beginning of the stroke. The top of the master was open so that I could easily add fluid. I was watching the tubing I had on the bleed valve and not looking up at the master cylinder, while doing the operation. Once I realized that fluid was squirting out, up there (& all over the place), I started laying the internal rubber bladder back on the opening each time, after adding fluid.
Most of the fluid came from the master cylinder up on the handlebar. I didn't notice that every time I squeezed it, a little "old faithful" geyser would shoot up at the very beginning of the stroke. The top of the master was open so that I could easily add fluid. I was watching the tubing I had on the bleed valve and not looking up at the master cylinder, while doing the operation. Once I realized that fluid was squirting out, up there (& all over the place), I started laying the internal rubber bladder back on the opening each time, after adding fluid.
Was Can Am thinking this?
While working on this project I started wondering if Can Am had something like this in mind when they were designing their first prototype?
It is interesting to note that the casting behind the foot rest appears to be a lot stronger than necessary for something that is just for your heel to bump against. It has strengthening ribs cast into it and then there are those two unused mounting bosses. The ribs build up to their maximum height at the bosses. Something was originally meant to mount here and to take some applied forces.
It was very convenient for NEXUS and I. Hmm............................... :dontknow:
While working on this project I started wondering if Can Am had something like this in mind when they were designing their first prototype?
It is interesting to note that the casting behind the foot rest appears to be a lot stronger than necessary for something that is just for your heel to bump against. It has strengthening ribs cast into it and then there are those two unused mounting bosses. The ribs build up to their maximum height at the bosses. Something was originally meant to mount here and to take some applied forces.
It was very convenient for NEXUS and I. Hmm............................... :dontknow:
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