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Hydraulic Handbrake Alternative, And Alternative to Cables
- Thread starter NEXUS
- Start date
Since the Spyder has a dual master cylinder I don't know if there exists a hand brake with dual cylinders. On two wheel motorcycles the requirement for a redundant braking system is satisfied by the hand brake for the front and the foot brake for the rear. Spyder has all three tied together so they meet the requirement for redundancy by having a dual master cylinder and dual reservoirs. Also dual hoses and lines all the way.
Using a motorcycle hand brake (single cylinder) and tying into only one of the Spyder's master cylinder compartments (presumably the one for the front wheels) I would be concerned that the ABS action would get screwed up, with only front wheels braking or front and rear unbalanced braking. :yikes: I really don't know if that would be a problem but, to me, it seems logical that it very well could be.
I like the idea of not getting into the Spyder's hydraulic system at all. There might even be warranty problems with doing that (very likely). This certainly is an area for investigation and discussion. :chat: I look forward to other's methods to adding a hand brake as time goes on. Of course the best solution would be to have the factory add a hand brake, or make it an option, but it begins to look like that is just wishful thinking on our part.
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Ok, there's a problem here.
The typical hand brake installation is for someone that can for whatever reason not use the foot brake. So whether intended or not you have a single master cylinder system the one on the handle bar because if it fails the whole system fails.
So why not T into both systems on the Spyder from the handle bar cylinder and leave the foot pedal alone and just realize that you have a single cylinder system and that you need to check your brake system carefully before each ride.
Undoing the installation if you sell the Spyder is as simple as replacing the lines from the foot pedal that you T'd.
Actually tapping into the hydralics is the simplest approach and what you find with simple systems there are fewer things to fail. By complicating the system with another hydralic actuator and clevis you've actually got other parts that can fail.
True enough. Though there are numerous aftermarket companies that build alternate control systems for cars for the disabled. I'm hopeful that someone will step forward with a kit solution for the Spyder
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
Not as simple as it seems. First, I agree with Trikester that a dual master cylinder would be a necessity, especially with a rider who is limited to hand brake use only. Not sure if any such master cyclinder exists for the handlebar. Second, on another forum a writer told of problems experienced getting a master cylinder that would apply the correct pressure to tap into the Spyder system. Seems the computer monitors the pressure, and it was difficult to get enough oomph to avoid brake failure warnings and limp mode. Not that it can't be done, just not cut and dried.
-Scotty
As I said before; if this added system fails to operate, you still have the original unaltered foot operated system to use. Even if the added system jammed the foot pedal and prevented it from returning to rest position you would still stop and with a functioning ABS, but if you didn't intend to come to a complete stop then it might be dangerous to do so, when you couldn't release the brake. Fast lane on the freeway comes to mind here.
ray:I might not have mentioned before that one of the main reasons I wanted a hand brake was for rolling the Spyder around on uneven surfaces. I have almost had it get away from me and I have almost run over my foot with the front wheel. In regard to this - remember, I am very used to wheeling around two other trikes in this configuration and those don't have a reverse so I do that every time I have to back those up. It is not because of inexperience that I wanted a hand brake.
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I was not addressing your situation but rather the disabled rider that can't use the foot pedal.
Frankly, for your application I'd be thinking of a cable system that links the parking brake cable and avoiding the Spyders primary braking system entirely.
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Second, on another forum a writer told of problems experienced getting a master cylinder that would apply the correct pressure to tap into the Spyder system. Seems the computer monitors the pressure, and it was difficult to get enough oomph to avoid brake failure warnings and limp mode. Not that it can't be done, just not cut and dried.
-Scotty
I haven't seen that thread, can you supply a link?
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
Sorry, I don't go to that forum anymore. It was a long while back, maybe Spring of 2008. I'd search old threads for "hand brake" on SpyderTalk.
-Scotty
LittleJohn
New member
I believe he used a brembro 20mm master on the handlebar and tied that to a manifold borrowed from a goldwing, which he then ran two lines from to the existing ports on the ABS/brake box.
And the Goldwing owner never suspected a thing untill the first red light :joke:
Actually, since I also ride two wheels I like stopping with the hand brake. If I didn't ride other motorcycles I probably wouldn't feel that way, but I get both with this system.
Doesn't that compromise the original redundancy by connecting both elements of the Spyder's dual master cylinder through his manifold?
LittleJohn
New member
My thought is ...yes, but thats what he chose to do.
bjt
Very Helpful Member
Yep.
NEXUS
Member
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UPDATE ON MY HAND BRAKE MOD
I have made a couple of changes in the hand brake.
Normal foot brake action the slave cylinder shaft stays in the hole in the clevis. However, if the brakes on the Spyder had to be bled, to remove air, the foot brake arm would be moved far enough for the shaft to fall out of the clevis, during this operation. Getting it back in would add a lot of frustration to the bleeding process.
To facilitate this I bored the hole in the clevis a little deeper, to 18.5mm. Then using a 45 degree countersink I tapered the entrance to the hole. This cone shaped entrance provides a self guide for the end of the shaft making it easy to re-insert it into the hole. I also removed the nut from the salve cylinder shaft to be able to use the extra depth of the hole for the shaft. I re-adjusted the position of the cylinder to take up the gap between the end of the shaft and the bottom of the hole.
Here are photos of this mod.
I have made a couple of changes in the hand brake.
Normal foot brake action the slave cylinder shaft stays in the hole in the clevis. However, if the brakes on the Spyder had to be bled, to remove air, the foot brake arm would be moved far enough for the shaft to fall out of the clevis, during this operation. Getting it back in would add a lot of frustration to the bleeding process.
To facilitate this I bored the hole in the clevis a little deeper, to 18.5mm. Then using a 45 degree countersink I tapered the entrance to the hole. This cone shaped entrance provides a self guide for the end of the shaft making it easy to re-insert it into the hole. I also removed the nut from the salve cylinder shaft to be able to use the extra depth of the hole for the shaft. I re-adjusted the position of the cylinder to take up the gap between the end of the shaft and the bottom of the hole.
Here are photos of this mod.
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