Front tire swap affect alignment?

[DrewNJ]

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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[Magdave]

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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Every time you adjust the belt the rear tracking changes. It is very adjustable one bolt on each side and unless you adjust each exactly the same it will change the wheel direction.

 

[MrLooney]

LASER ALIGNMENT

Is alignment for the rear adjustable? I thought the only adjustments that were possible were to adjust toe?


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1. Is the alignment for the rear adjustable? YES! But that adjustment is for the Belt alignment on the rear sprocket.

2. Then setting up the Lasers on the front wheels.

3. Two laser targets are set at a specific distance back from the front wheels and a specific distance out from the rear wheel. This is in effect the beginning point of the 3 wheel alignment. At this point most Techs can tell you if your Roadster has good or bad alignment. It is also the starting point for all 3 wheels being synced together for a true alignment.

4. The biggest problem is if the TECH knows precisely what to do and when to do it! The grape vine is starting to talk!

5. Front two targets are located and set.

6. Adjust the tie rods to proper settings.

7. Secure tie rods

8. Test ride

9. If good Pay Da Man !!

There are many more details I have left out (boring for the most part) but very important in the over all process..........

I wish you good luck with your LASER TECH GUY

 

[DrewNJ]

Ok, so let me ask it this way. Is it possible to adjust the tracking of the rear end and not alter the tracking of the belt?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

ALIGNMENT ISSUES

For those of you that are not aware of this Dan aka Mr.Looney is not guessing about all this , He is trained in using the ROLO Lazer alignment system........just clarifying the info being stated here and by whom........Mike :thumbup:

 

[MrLooney]

Tracking

Ok, so let me ask it this way. Is it possible to adjust the tracking of the rear end and not alter the tracking of the belt?

YES! But to a small given amount. HOW? by moving the motor in the frame and keeping the belt aligned on the rear sprocket. BUT do you really want to go into all that kind of detailed trouble? Anything is possible, where there is a will there is a way. Any more absurd questions?

 

[DrewNJ]

YES! But to a small given amount. HOW? by moving the motor in the frame and keeping the belt aligned on the rear sprocket. BUT do you really want to go into all that kind of detailed trouble? Anything is possible, where there is a will there is a way. Any more absurd questions?

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

 

[flybuddy]

Agree with both of you. I tried to be as precise as possible knowing full well I was one step beyond Rube Goldberg with this. As far as the toe I remounted several times and took multiple readings. Accuracy may very well come from consistent rate of error on both sides. Anyway all I wound up doing was a :lecturef_smilie: half turn in on each rod :yikes:and test drove on interstate. It seems better. [/QUOTE]



Now you've gone and done it !!
Just tightening the set nuts can change the TOE as much as 3/16" and you went a half turn on each sided!! WOW
Have you any idea if that half turn was toe in or toe out?

BUDDHA only knows where your settings are now!

Back to square one! Start over.....
Do not pass GO!
Do not collect 200 dollar!
Go directly to your nearest ROLO Guy for a
new LASER ALIGNMENT!!!
PAY Da Man Again!

Seems a bit extreme. If you make sure the rod is to one side or the other how in gods green earth will loosening the nut make a 3/16" diff? If careful, it shouldn't move at all. I've built aircraft and set wheel tracking before. The half thread (which is barely moving the rod) did not make a huge diff on the targets (and yes it was toward toe out). Have you ever looked at the procedure prior to laser alignments? What I did was space age compared to that. BRP has not been known for precision and accuracy when it comes to alignments from the factory. They provide no tools to the dealers many of who know little about 3 wheelers anyway. Yes, ROLO is MUCH more precise and I had a date set with ROLO on the first week of December for a redo (either way). In the interim it would have been hard to make it ride worse than it was and it's a 4 hour ride over. I get a lot of info from this site so I attempt to share this stuff for insight and so others can learn good (or bad) from my actions.
How about it? Anyone else with experience/background in Spyder alignments think a half thread turn is way too much?

 

[MrLooney]

Please read previous posts

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

The Laser Alignment starts by adjusting the REAR wheel BELT alignment on the rear sprocket. After that any changes will and do effect the 3 wheel alignment. Once the over all Alignment has been completed PLEASE don't change any adjustments.

I hope your happy and satisfied with answers?

And I hope you get a good Tech to align your Spyder
Don't You Know I heard It Through The Grape Vine

 

[DrewNJ]

The Laser Alignment starts by adjusting the REAR wheel BELT alignment on the rear sprocket. After that any changes will and do effect the 3 wheel alignment. Once the over all Alignment has been completed PLEASE don't change any adjustments.

I hope your happy and satisfied with answers?

And I hope you get a good Tech to align your Spyder
Don't You Know I heard It Through The Grape Vine

Yep, thank you for that explanation. It was VERY helpful.

 

[MrLooney]

RYDE ON

I hope your happy and enjoy your Spyder Roadster very much! :2thumbs:
That goes for all Spyder Ryders :cheers:

HEY wheres Bob D?

 

[Yfactor]

I hope your happy and enjoy your Spyder Roadster very much! :2thumbs:
That goes for all Spyder Ryders :cheers:

HEY wheres Bob D?

You don't see his beady red eyes peering out of the dark at you? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

 

[MrLooney]

NOPE Maybe he has them closed or he's under water like an alligator about ready to pounce!

 

[GeoffCee]

1. Is the alignment for the rear adjustable? YES! But that adjustment is for the Belt alignment on the rear sprocket.

My understanding is that when the belt is adjusted with 1/16th inch clearance on the inside of the rear sprocket, the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment.

 

[MrLooney]

Drive Belt Alignment

My understanding is that when the belt is adjusted with 1/16th inch clearance on the inside of the rear sprocket, the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment.

I think what you are saying here is 2 different things? > > >
1. the rear wheel sprocket and the engine drive sprocket are aligned within specification and the rear wheel and its tire runs true. YES ! this is aligning the engine to the rear wheel. Drive belt clearance (please correct me if I am wrong) is 1/16" or less from belt to inside spline on sprocket.

2. The front wheel toe in/toe out adjustment has no bearing on rear wheel alignment. NO. It has everything to do with the front wheel alignment. Why? Because once you have set the lasers in place on the front hubs / spindles then shoot the target location off the rear of the rear aluminum wheel (not the rubber) thus starting the alignment process. Now you are aligning the front wheels to the rear wheel. Final adjustments are made using all 4 targets.

When a Laser Alignment Tech understands how important each step is the easier his job is and the better his alignments are for accuracy.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion?

If you have had an alignment and are not happy with it take it back to your tech and ask him/her please check it again.
the grape vine is picking up a buzzzzz

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

CORRECT

Dan I think you are the MAN ....... :bowdown: :clap: :yes: :yes: :yes: :agree: .........Mike :thumbup:

 

[Magdave]

Absurd questions? Really?
All I was wondering is if the alignment was adjustable at the rear if it was found to be out...thanks!

In a perfect world with perfect sprockets a proper aligned & tensioned belt should run true and be the basis for the front tires to be aligned. That is why BRP only aligns the front. Problem is the world is not perfect. If it was the rolo system would only use the fronts. There may also be some frame imperfection and/or engine misalignment. I know for a fact my rear sprocket is not I have seen it spin and it has a slight wobble during my tensioning at the dealer and the tech pointed it out to me. So what point do you use for alignment? Obviously it has to be the closest to the rim section. With the rim spinning it may be hard to see if your sprocket is better than mine. Anyway I will reiterate a properly tensioned & aligned belt should make the rear tire run pretty true. Not necessarily perfect.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

THE ISSUES BEING DISCUSSED

Great Video Dave thanks I'm going to save that................I think on the sprocket thing on you Spyder some possibilities are : a tech at your dealer mis-aligned the parts on re-assembly and has damaged them......the parts were not machined correctly in the first place ( I don't think this was likely ). If it was #1 would the tech admit this ??????.....I'm not feeling good about that possibility ( from personal experience). As I remarked in an earlier post here the alignment thing is not IMHO a DIY type of thing.......and even the people with the LAZER system may not all be experienced enough YET to be getting it correct.....It may all depend on how serious the operator believes READING " the how the use " directions is.! ! !.......just sayin...Mike :thumbup:

 

[MrLooney]

AGAIN

In a perfect world with perfect sprockets a proper aligned & tensioned belt should run true and be the basis for the front tires to be aligned. That is why BRP only aligns the front. Problem is the world is not perfect. If it was the rolo system would only use the fronts. There may also be some frame imperfection and/or engine misalignment. I know for a fact my rear sprocket is not I have seen it spin and it has a slight wobble during my tensioning at the dealer and the tech pointed it out to me. So what point do you use for alignment? Obviously it has to be the closest to the rim section. With the rim spinning it may be hard to see if your sprocket is better than mine. Anyway I will reiterate a properly tensioned & aligned belt should make the rear tire run pretty true. Not necessarily perfect.

If all things were perfect !!

This measurement point is as far back as you can possibly get on the rear aluminum wheel. Do not measure from the rubber. The rear targets are then set the prescribed distance from the rear wheel. By the way the targets are parallel with the rear axle.

When parts are set up in a lathe and the lathe operator knows what he is doing then all things should be as near as perfect as possible. In todays automated factories these parts may not always be perfect thus causing that wobble in the Sprocket or even the rear wheel. That being said, lets now look at the rubber tire, it is not even remotely close to what the rear wheel has to be. Look at all the high spots and low spots you can visually see. How could you even come close to trying to find a place to shoot a laser beam from.

 

[RBS66]

Great Video Dave thanks I'm going to save that................I think on the sprocket thing on you Spyder some possibilities are : a tech at your dealer mis-aligned the parts on re-assembly and has damaged them......the parts were not machined correctly in the first place ( I don't think this was likely ). If it was #1 would the tech admit this ??????.....I'm not feeling good about that possibility ( from personal experience). As I remarked in an earlier post here the alignment thing is not IMHO a DIY type of thing.......and even the people with the LAZER system may not all be experienced enough YET to be getting it correct.....It may all depend on how serious the operator believes READING " the how the use " directions is.! ! !.......just sayin...Mike :thumbup:

This is very true I had my bike Rolo alignment done twice. The first time was not correct at all handlebars cocked to the left and turn signal would not cancel on its own and handling was terrible especialy left turns. Took it back they realigned it for free re balanced my front tires and it rides much much better now but still not perfect. It has a very noticeable pull to the right. The dealer ship I had it done at had only completed six alignments at that point. I think they need a little more practice. The mechanic working on my bike was trying very hard to make it perfect I have to give him credit for that.