fan reversal

[3 Wheel Addict]

He's right you know! The traffic sucks at Myrtle beach, got stuck in traffic there once in a motorhome and had two birthdays before we got to Ocean lakes campground!

 

[Gundam]

I have to eat humble pie now....

...my bad, Magdave, jcthorne and others are correct, sorry guys..... I went out and did a test today, keep the reverse mode on while moving from slow to high speed, and you are right, coolant high temperature limb mode occurred... It's a good thing I also have override mode to cool things down in a jiffy.... But reverse mode works well for slow speed around town, engine did not over heat, it even managed to cool the radiator down sufficiently for it to cut off..... Only need to remember to switch back to normal when moving at a faster pace.....ah well, back to the drawing board..... I will definitely look into putting a speed controlled cut off switch to prevent it happening..... Thanks guys and again my humble apologies to everyone....

 

[Jeriatric]

...my bad, Magdave, jcthorne and others are correct, sorry guys..... I went out and did a test today, keep the reverse mode on while moving from slow to high speed, and you are right, coolant high temperature limb mode occurred... It's a good thing I also have override mode to cool things down in a jiffy.... But reverse mode works well for slow speed around town, engine did not over heat, it even managed to cool the radiator down sufficiently for it to cut off..... Only need to remember to switch back to normal when moving at a faster pace.....ah well, back to the drawing board..... I will definitely look into putting a speed controlled cut off switch to prevent it happening..... Thanks guys and again my humble apologies to everyone....

Team members need not apologize. Tho, I'm sure the gesture will be appreciated. Thank you for being a lab rat. Really!!

 

[jcthorne]

...my bad, Magdave, jcthorne and others are correct, sorry guys..... I went out and did a test today, keep the reverse mode on while moving from slow to high speed, and you are right, coolant high temperature limb mode occurred... It's a good thing I also have override mode to cool things down in a jiffy.... But reverse mode works well for slow speed around town, engine did not over heat, it even managed to cool the radiator down sufficiently for it to cut off..... Only need to remember to switch back to normal when moving at a faster pace.....ah well, back to the drawing board..... I will definitely look into putting a speed controlled cut off switch to prevent it happening..... Thanks guys and again my humble apologies to everyone....

Please, no apologies necessary. You are doing GREAT WORK and I for one am glad you are continuing to work on this. Please keep us posted on your results.

I was looking at this timer relay to drive a 30A DPDT power relay and drive it from the brake light switch:

http://www.amazon.com/Altronix-6062-Digital-Timer/dp/B0006TZEDS

I could not come up with an easy way to work from the speed sensor without upsetting Mary Poppins.

Just ideas.

 

[Gundam]

You are not getting it Sure it may work for a while. take a CPU or Power supply fan and jam it and apply power and wait for it to smoke. A fan is not made to be jammed over and over again and that is what keeping it running in reverse will do or it will pop a fuse your are exceeding the design parameters of the fan. I am not saying you have not done good work but leaving it in the reverse mode is not a good thing.:thumbup:

Yeah... you are right, I get it now, after I put it to the test, my bad and my apologies... I was thinking too much on the ideal theory side of things... a speed controlled cut off switch is a must.... I will work on it....

 

[NancysToy]

I still think the simplest solution is a momentary contact switch, It will only run in reverse while your thumb is on the button that way.

 

[Magdave]

Team members need not apologize. Tho, I'm sure the gesture will be appreciated. Thank you for being a lab rat. Really!!

For sure we were only debating the function not the experimenter. You are doing us all a service by trying it out. :clap:

 

[StanProff]

Working a time-delay, into a circuit fed by the brake light holds a lot of promise... :thumbup:

not a bad idea. I like the brake switch controlling the reversing of the fan. Lot of ideas here on this thread, good reading.

 

[Gundam]

Please, no apologies necessary. You are doing GREAT WORK and I for one am glad you are continuing to work on this. Please keep us posted on your results.

I was looking at this timer relay to drive a 30A DPDT power relay and drive it from the brake light switch:

http://www.amazon.com/Altronix-6062-Digital-Timer/dp/B0006TZEDS

I could not come up with an easy way to work from the speed sensor without upsetting Mary Poppins.

Just ideas.

Thanks, I appreciate that.... and yeah, in order not to upset the ECU, the signal must be processed directly from the speed sensor, can be done but not easy... using the timer relay is possible, but I couldn't find any details about setting and triggering it, whether it is positive voltage trigger or zero volt.... you may need to wire up the relay to be auto latching...

I try to work on the cut off using speed control first because I do not have the habit of keeping the foot on the brake pedal when the Spyder (or any vehicle for that matter) is stationary... to reduce wear and tear on the brake piston seals, brake lamps, consume battery power and also prevent glaring the drivers/riders behind....

 

[Gundam]

Speed cut off is a must.
May I suggest a second hall effect sensor on one of the wheels.
You could then get an average voltage from the pulse train.
The faster the speed the average voltage will climb until it reaches the supply rail.
A comparator then could be used to switch the relay off.

That's what I'm thinking too but unless this whole system can be bought in one single plug and play unit, the thought of matching and wiring individual components is a big headache.... I will try a different approach.... a different way of sensing the speed....

 

[Gundam]

I still think the simplest solution is a momentary contact switch, It will only run in reverse while your thumb is on the button that way.

Have you decided which thumb you want to use to press the button?.... won't your thumb be tired in a traffic jam?....

 

[Magdave]

Have you decided which thumb you want to use to press the button?.... won't your thumb be tired in a traffic jam?....

The simplest is not always the best. I like the time on delay set by the brake light idea. There is no reason not to have your foot on the pedal at stop you won't wear anything out unless you stand on it. I would set it at 10sec to start and see how it works.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/12v-timer-relay

 

[Gundam]

OK, how about an accelerometer.
https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/80

I have read it's specification, they all need signal processing, quite complicated, and you will need proper calibration to differentiate it from the vehicle vibration, unintended movement etc.... it must be something simple to make, installed and maintain to ensure reliability.... do you remember in the 1960s how bicycles power their headlamps?....the faster you pedal, the brighter the lights.... I was thinking about a non contact version...

 

[Gundam]

The simplest is not always the best. I like the time on delay set by the brake light idea. There is no reason not to have your foot on the pedal at stop you won't wear anything out unless you stand on it. I would set it at 10sec to start and see how it works.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/12v-timer-relay

My habit of not having my foot on the brake pedal starts after a few years of driving automatic transmission cars, you need to keep pressing the brakes to prevent the car from creeping forward.... I have worn out one brake master cylinder every two years or less, my current car is more than 8 years with the original brake master cylinder... I think I keep my foot off the brake... that's why I don't think the cut off using the brake light will work for me, it is a very good idea and will definitely work....

 

[jwulf74]

I have read it's specification, they all need signal processing, quite complicated, and you will need proper calibration to differentiate it from the vehicle vibration, unintended movement etc.... it must be something simple to make, installed and maintain to ensure reliability.... do you remember in the 1960s how bicycles power their headlamps?....the faster you pedal, the brighter the lights.... I was thinking about a non contact version...

Our bicycle speedometers use a magnetic system to calculate the speed of the bike... just a magnet on the spoke and a sensor on the fork. I think even the cheapest ones do that now. If a guy could reverse engineer one of those to trip a relay at x speed, that may be a possibility. way beyond my low level of expertise though.

 

[Gundam]

Our bicycle speedometers use a magnetic system to calculate the speed of the bike... just a magnet on the spoke and a sensor on the fork. I think even the cheapest ones do that now. If a guy could reverse engineer one of those to trip a relay at x speed, that may be a possibility. way beyond my low level of expertise though.

But how do you tap the signals off the unit? It is a closed system whereby signals from the sending unit is send to the display.... like you said, that guy must have a Phd in electronics to be able to do it... way beyond mine too...

 

[Jeriatric]

But how do you tap the signals off the unit? It is a closed system whereby signals from the sending unit is send to the display.... like you said, that guy must have a Phd in electronics to be able to do it... way beyond mine too...

They have an internal processor which requires you to initially program the appropriate tire size of the bike it will be used on. Great tool for a bicycle but not so practical for this proposed application. jmo

 

[Gundam]

They have an internal processor which requires you to initially program the appropriate tire size of the bike it will be used on. Great tool for a bicycle but not so practical for this proposed application. jmo

My thoughts exactly.... how about an air flow meter mounted in the tunnel leading to the radiator?.... once a certain amount of air flow is reached, the unit can trigger a signal to cut off the relay.... hmmm.... will look into the triggering output of such meters first....

 

[Jeriatric]

My thoughts exactly.... how about an air flow meter mounted in the tunnel leading to the radiator?.... once a certain amount of air flow is reached, the unit can trigger a signal to cut off the relay.... hmmm.... will look into the triggering output of such meters first....

Pitot tube. As used on aircraft. Now you're flying. Keep us posted.

 

[Gundam]

Half of what you need is already installed.
The notched disks bolted on to each wheel is used by the VSS to determine the speed by a hall effect sensor.

Instead of bolting a bicycle magneto on, just use a second hall effect sensor (You can buy one from any BRP dealer) and find a way to bolt it on?
Yes, it would take some electronics but I can't see another reliable way to do it.

But what sort of electronic components is required to convert the signals from the sensor to the relay?.... I ok with electrics but not electronics stuff....