Does anyone leave the parking brake off during winter storage? And some rodent protection discussion...

[EdMat]

I have to leave the parking brake engaged on my 2018 Spyder RT Limited SE-6 or it electronically screams very loudly after I stop the engine and turn the key to the off position. John G. I've never had any issues leaving the parking brake engaged for a few weeks.

The scream will stop after 20 seconds. It's there as a temporary "in-case" reminder.

 

[JayBros]

For more than 10 years and 90K+miles I have been leaving my Spyder in Neutral with the parking brake on, a Battery Tender Jr. (comped by the dealership at purchase) connected, and I have never had a problem. With the SE6 transmission, one can move the Spyder by hand when it's in gear with just a little more effort than when it's in Neutral. If I have to move the roadster to access the rear tire valve, I simply turn on the key and release the parking brake; the engine does not have to be started.

 

[tofriendscreek]

Anytime it’s in the garage I leave the parking brake off so it can be moved without starting it. It’s also always plugged into a battery tender if I’m not going to be ryding it for several days.

 

[Little Blue]

I believe most people over think about something and then it gets the better of them.
Not rocket science. So Ryde and enjoy the Time.
Have a Blessed Day my friend.

 

[AstroTom]

Rats aren't slow... I don't know if it was in response to anything above, but a while back, a couple of the Universities here in Oz got together to study rodents reaction to various deterrents and their habits generally in a bit more detail, and while it wasn't initially one of their tests, they discovered that it didn't really seem to matter matter WHAT 'deterrent' was 'applied' once a day instead of once a week.

IIRC, they tried all sorts of 'supposedly attractive baits and deterrent' type stuff; amongst a range of other baits, they tried peppermint, tea-tree oil, eucalyptus, even water... The initial results showed that rats appeared less frequently at those sites/test stations where the testers &/or humans appeared most often/more frequently than 'once a week'. So once that became clear, they decided to look into this a little deeper, and eventually they concluded that regardless of the 'attractiveness of the bait' or the 'unattractiveness of the deterrents', rats simply tended to 'visit' those sites where humans/testers appeared daily far less often than the rats appeared at any sites where the testers visited less frequently &/or regardless of the bait or deterrent, even at those testing stations/sites where the testers did NOTHING AT ALL except VISIT, simply 'visiting and then leaving', applying & doing NOTHING AT ALL except going there!!

SMART RATS - 1
HUMAN's &/or TESTER's - 0

So, it seems that the cheapest and most effective 'rodent damage deterrent' for your Spyder is to visit it at least once a day....

To stay on topic to start, I've never considered if I should be leaving the parking brake on or off during storage. I've left my RV's parking brake on in storage for months, but rarely is my Spyder out of commission for that long here in Arizona. I see the logic of leaving it off to reduce possible stretch, but what we think happens isn't always what will happen.

Re: Peter's post.... It's accurate info that I'd like to back up. Read on if your are interested, or skip to the next post if your are not.

I was certified, and did institutional pest control for over 15 years, and was required to attend annual recert classes to keep my license valid. I took care of multiple facilities with kitchens, cafeterias, recycle centers, and food storage warehouses. If you think your Spyder is attractive to rodents, imaging a warehouse full of sacks of flour beans, rice, boxed mayonnaise, raisins, etc, not to mention a kitchen that prepared meals for 300-1500 people 5 days a week. Some of our buildings dated back to the 1920s. Rodents were a regular topic, and we had talks by researchers each year, and they all said the same thing: There's no such thing as a effective repellent. They showed slides of Mice calmly sitting next to a ultasonic "pest chaser"; bars of Irish Spring soap partly consumed by rodents; a mouse sleeping in a bed of shredded drier sheets; videos of rodents walking right over rope lights; etc. Oh, one test did show that cat urine will reduce rat visits by 30%, as did some aromatic substances in small enclosed spaces, when applied daily as mentioned in Peter's post. That means they still visit 70% of the time. I'm sure everyone would agree that even that isn't a good solution. The reason daily application is needed for any effect is; these substances volitalize very quickly. The other reason is covered below - adaptation. Remember, something may be marketed as a repellent if it simply reduces pest visits like the cat urine did. Technically that's repelling the pest. But this is not how people think of a repellent when they imagine them, they think they stop visits. At least that's what one wants in a repellent. To keep pests away.

When doing online research, you'll almost never get a hit on a search engine to actual objective test data. Search engines like Google will return hits based on how common a post subject is, and because there's way more personal testimony on dealing with pests than actual research data, bad info gets passed on over and over again, which re-enforces the search hits and how close to the top of the search page they are. The more you read something works, the more you believe it does, even if it doesn't. A popular subject gets more clicks than a boring data driven article. I see this with other subjects I have extensive knowledge in. I've seen countless articles by so called "experts" that are simply writers repeating what they've read online, and what they might believe works. I heard them all in my job. My favorite was being told for the 100th time that feeding corn meal to ants kills them because they can't digest it, they swell up, and they'll explode internally. One tiny problem was that when I explained why this isn't true, I was usually met with blank stares. Adult ants don't eat solids. They take the solid food back to the nest, where they feed it to the grubs, which then produce a nutritious liquid that the adults eat, and which is fed to the queen. Dumping a pile of cornmeal near an ant nest only appears to work because it can stop them from foraging because you've filled their pantry. You no longer see the line of ants, so you believe it works because the corn meal killed them; when they are instead, happy and working to expand the nest for the next cycle of foraging. This is a perfect example of bad info being repeated.

There's huge amount of observer's and confirmation bias in personal testimony, even when the poster is sincere, which I believe most people are. I'll use a real example offered to me as sincere advice by a neighbor, who wasn't aware of what I did for a living before retiring. We live at the edge of thousands of acres of Arizona BLM land, have high numbers of stored RVs and vehicles of all types, and few actual garages. This land is home to the pesky Wood Rat, commonly known as a Pack Rat, along with the Pocket Mouse, House Mouse, and Kangaroo rat; but Pack Rats are all anyone knows and talks about. He said that he stored his RV outside next to the house for 10 years without a problem, but then had some damage caused by packrats, so he put lights under the RV, and hasn't had a problem since, and it's been 2 years - Proof the lights work. Do you see the fault in his logic? The conformation bias in his conclusion? I did instantly - No lights worked for 10 years, and lights for 2, yet he concluded lights are the solution, and that's what he tells everyone. Based on his own real data, he should be telling people Pack Rats are afraid of the dark, and that no lights is the preferred method of control. According to his own data at the time - no lights is 5X as effective as lights. I've lived on a rural property for almost 40 years, never use lights or repellent, only the proven pest control methods listed below, and have never had any of my vehicles damaged even by the dreaded Pack Rat. I have gone through a lot of bait and trapped many rodents, mostly Packrats. I use an electronic rat zapper, checked regularly, and throw the dead bodies out in the yard. I have a nice big happy Roadrunner that visits my yard and appreciates the free meals.

In pest control the three SOP steps are 1. Exclusion (the most important) 2. Bait (externally) - to reduce local population, which in the industry is known as reducing past pressure. High pest pressure is a large population competing for limited recourses. This drives pests out of their natural habitat into ours. 3. Traps for monitoring. At best, everything else may offer limited and usually transient control. Without getting too deep into the scientific weeds, we tend to apply human logic to wild animal survival behavior. We think that because we avoid unpleasant sights and smells rodents will too. Two things go against this logic - one is the word survival. They must work to survive 24/7/365. I tell people pests are pros. They are better trained experts than I am, and certainly than the average home and vehicle owner. The other mistake we commonly make is we think of them as passive, creatures with tiny brains, not as intelligent survivalists that constantly test, and evaluate their environment, and LEARN what is dangerous, and what is not. Light might give a rodent pause when first encountered, but their little survivalist brains will quickly learn the lights pose absolutely no threat and can be ignored. The scientific word for this is "adaptation." All creature's brains, ours included, are designed to adapt, and to be ready for new and novel threats. In order to do so, common, repeated stimuli, fade into the background which makes room for attention to be ready for a new threat. This goes not only for sights, but for smells too.

My advice is this: use repellents if you like, but don't ignore proven methods listed above. You won't find lights, Irish Spring soap, drier sheets, and peppermint oil on your local pest control person's truck for a reason. The way I equate using repellents in place of proven methods is like you going off on vacation, leaving a light on in the house to deter burglars, but leaving the front and back doors not only unlocked, but wide open. We wouldn't think for a minute to do so to keep our homes safe, but we regularly do it to keep our vehicles safe from pests. We leave the the doors wide open and rely on a repellent to stop the professional intruder.

Ok, pest control lecture mode off. Now what were we talking about before some kooky guy hijacked the thread???

 

[Mazo EMS2]

I was just wondering if anyone leaves the parking brake off while their Spyder is put up for an extended time. Pros/cons of leaving it off.

Always gets left off for storage

 

[Cobranut]

To stay on topic to start, I've never considered if I should be leaving the parking brake on or off during storage. I've left my RV's parking brake on in storage for months, but rarely is my Spyder out of commission for that long here in Arizona. I see the logic of leaving it off to reduce possible stretch, but what we think happens isn't always what will happen.

Re: Peter's post.... It's accurate info that I'd like to back up. Read on if your are interested, or skip to the next post if your are not.

I was certified, and did institutional pest control for over 15 years, and was required to attend annual recert classes to keep my license valid. I took care of multiple facilities with kitchens, cafeterias, recycle centers, and food storage warehouses. If you think your Spyder is attractive to rodents, imaging a warehouse full of sacks of flour beans, rice, boxed mayonnaise, raisins, etc, not to mention a kitchen that prepared meals for 300-1500 people 5 days a week. Some of our buildings dated back to the 1920s. Rodents were a regular topic, and we had talks by researchers each year, and they all said the same thing: There's no such thing as a effective repellent. They showed slides of Mice calmly sitting next to a ultasonic "pest chaser"; bars of Irish Spring soap partly consumed by rodents; a mouse sleeping in a bed of shredded drier sheets; videos of rodents walking right over rope lights; etc. Oh, one test did show that cat urine will reduce rat visits by 30%, as did some aromatic substances in small enclosed spaces, when applied daily as mentioned in Peter's post. That means they still visit 70% of the time. I'm sure everyone would agree that even that isn't a good solution. The reason daily application is needed for any effect is; these substances volitalize very quickly. The other reason is covered below - adaptation. Remember, something may be marketed as a repellent if it simply reduces pest visits like the cat urine did. Technically that's repelling the pest. But this is not how people think of a repellent when they imagine them, they think they stop visits. At least that's what one wants in a repellent. To keep pests away.

When doing online research, you'll almost never get a hit on a search engine to actual objective test data. Search engines like Google will return hits based on how common a post subject is, and because there's way more personal testimony on dealing with pests than actual research data, bad info gets passed on over and over again, which re-enforces the search hits and how close to the top of the search page they are. The more you read something works, the more you believe it does, even if it doesn't. A popular subject gets more clicks than a boring data driven article. I see this with other subjects I have extensive knowledge in. I've seen countless articles by so called "experts" that are simply writers repeating what they've read online, and what they might believe works. I heard them all in my job. My favorite was being told for the 100th time that feeding corn meal to ants kills them because they can't digest it, they swell up, and they'll explode internally. One tiny problem was that when I explained why this isn't true, I was usually met with blank stares. Adult ants don't eat solids. They take the solid food back to the nest, where they feed it to the grubs, which then produce a nutritious liquid that the adults eat, and which is fed to the queen. Dumping a pile of cornmeal near an ant nest only appears to work because it can stop them from foraging because you've filled their pantry. You no longer see the line of ants, so you believe it works because the corn meal killed them; when they are instead, happy and working to expand the nest for the next cycle of foraging. This is a perfect example of bad info being repeated.

There's huge amount of observer's and confirmation bias in personal testimony, even when the poster is sincere, which I believe most people are. I'll use a real example offered to me as sincere advice by a neighbor, who wasn't aware of what I did for a living before retiring. We live at the edge of thousands of acres of Arizona BLM land, have high numbers of stored RVs and vehicles of all types, and few actual garages. This land is home to the pesky Wood Rat, commonly known as a Pack Rat, along with the Pocket Mouse, House Mouse, and Kangaroo rat; but Pack Rats are all anyone knows and talks about. He said that he stored his RV outside next to the house for 10 years without a problem, but then had some damage caused by packrats, so he put lights under the RV, and hasn't had a problem since, and it's been 2 years - Proof the lights work. Do you see the fault in his logic? The conformation bias in his conclusion? I did instantly - No lights worked for 10 years, and lights for 2, yet he concluded lights are the solution, and that's what he tells everyone. Based on his own real data, he should be telling people Pack Rats are afraid of the dark, and that no lights is the preferred method of control. According to his own data at the time - no lights is 5X as effective as lights. I've lived on a rural property for almost 40 years, never use lights or repellent, only the proven pest control methods listed below, and have never had any of my vehicles damaged even by the dreaded Pack Rat. I have gone through a lot of bait and trapped many rodents, mostly Packrats. I use an electronic rat zapper, checked regularly, and throw the dead bodies out in the yard. I have a nice big happy Roadrunner that visits my yard and appreciates the free meals.

In pest control the three SOP steps are 1. Exclusion (the most important) 2. Bait (externally) - to reduce local population, which in the industry is known as reducing past pressure. High pest pressure is a large population competing for limited recourses. This drives pests out of their natural habitat into ours. 3. Traps for monitoring. At best, everything else may offer limited and usually transient control. Without getting too deep into the scientific weeds, we tend to apply human logic to wild animal survival behavior. We think that because we avoid unpleasant sights and smells rodents will too. Two things go against this logic - one is the word survival. They must work to survive 24/7/365. I tell people pests are pros. They are better trained experts than I am, and certainly than the average home and vehicle owner. The other mistake we commonly make is we think of them as passive, creatures with tiny brains, not as intelligent survivalists that constantly test, and evaluate their environment, and LEARN what is dangerous, and what is not. Light might give a rodent pause when first encountered, but their little survivalist brains will quickly learn the lights pose absolutely no threat and can be ignored. The scientific word for this is "adaptation." All creature's brains, ours included, are designed to adapt, and to be ready for new and novel threats. In order to do so, common, repeated stimuli, fade into the background which makes room for attention to be ready for a new threat. This goes not only for sights, but for smells too.

My advice is this: use repellents if you like, but don't ignore proven methods listed above. You won't find lights, Irish Spring soap, drier sheets, and peppermint oil on your local pest control person's truck for a reason. The way I equate using repellents in place of proven methods is like you going off on vacation, leaving a light on in the house to deter burglars, but leaving the front and back doors not only unlocked, but wide open. We wouldn't think for a minute to do so to keep our homes safe, but we regularly do it to keep our vehicles safe from pests. We leave the the doors wide open and rely on a repellent to stop the professional intruder.

Ok, pest control lecture mode off. Now what were we talking about before some kooky guy hijacked the thread???

Thanks, Tom, for that very educational post.

I live in VA, and I also have a motorhome, as well as several classic cars, in addition to my Spyder and other equipment.
Rodents are always a concern.
Would you mind sharing the particular rat zapper you use, as well as the best methods for deployment?
I'd also like to know which bait products you find most effective.

Thanks,
David

 

[ned64]

Thanks, Tom, for that very educational post.

I live in VA, and I also have a motorhome, as well as several classic cars, in addition to my Spyder and other equipment.
Rodents are always a concern.
Would you mind sharing the particular rat zapper you use, as well as the best methods for deployment?
I'd also like to know which bait products you find most effective.

Thanks,
David

I use an Owltra Electric Mouse Zapper from Amazon. It uses 4 x AA batteries. I like it. I use peanut butter sometimes, and cheese sometimes. It sells for $18 or $19 if I remember rightly.

 

[Dakotaz]

I use an Owltra Electric Mouse Zapper from Amazon. It uses 4 x AA batteries. I like it. I use peanut butter sometimes, and cheese sometimes. It sells for $18 or $19 if I remember rightly.

And that works with the pack rats as well? Like you I have a lot of State Land and Natural Area around my house in Cave Creek.

 

[ned64]

And that works with the pack rats as well? Like you I have a lot of State Land and Natural Area around my house in Cave Creek.

they probably sell Zappers that are bigger to use on rats. I use mine for mice in the garage and around the outside of house. Works good on mice, but too small for rats to get into it. I don't use any poisons these days for mice and rats. My dog ate a mouse that had eaten a piece of poison bait for mice. Killed my dog, so I picked up all the little poison blocks and threw them away. Only traps from now on.

 

[AstroTom]

Victor makes rat and mouse zappers, but there are other brands. I used a Victor and a Rat Zapper brand at work, but they all work the same. Peanut butter was my go-to bait in snap traps, but it's hard to load into a zapper that doesn't have a bait port, and cleaning it out is even harder, so I use cat or dog kibble, bird seed, or sunflower hearts, even something like a little bit of bacon. The Rat Zapper brand trap even included some dog kibble in the package. I like to use something that isn't sticky or greasy because it can be hard to clean the inside of these traps. Be sure to not place them where they'll get wet.

One thing about pest control is; it's like keeping up on vehicle maintenance. You can't be passive about it. Traps need to be checked regularly, and in the case of zappers, you'll have to wipe the plates clean occasionally. I keep a zapper in my carport, and if I'm catching anything, I check it daily. If I haven't caught anything in a while, I'll check it every few days or once a week. Two things about traps, zap or snap - Rats are neophobic, are quite intelligent, so they are wary of new objects in their environment and will often "test" an object to see how it behaves. This can trigger a trap without catching the rat, and from that point on, the rat will avoid the danger; so with rats, pre-bait the trap without setting it. Let the rat take the bait a few times before setting the trap. Actually this is a good tactic to use when targeting any rodent. If you notice the bait is gone, that confirms activity; if the bait remains, move the trap to another location and repeat, but be patient. You want to take advantage of the adaptation I spoke of before. It's a balance between finding activity and letting the new trap fade into the danger background.

You'll also need to put on a detective hat when you deal with pests. Be ready to experiment and try something different. When I moved to Arizona, I discovered some of my best go-to baits didn't work as well here, so I tried different baits until I found one that the local rodents seemed to like. I own a trail camera, and used that to monitor the area under my bird feeders at night to see what kind of nocturnal visitors I had. I also set it up outside of burrow holes. They can be used to see if your Spyder is being visited at night too. I saw Packrats collecting sunflower hearts from under the feeders, so that's the bait I used. Same with Kangaroo rats. If you continue to see activity, but aren't getting anything in your traps, switch baits, or move the trap. Be patient, observe, and adapt. It's what they do.

With all my vehicles, I include pest inspections along with regular maintenance. I pop the hood on my car once a week or so (remember, I only have a carport and I am surrounded by open desert). If I'm opening an access panel for any maintenance reason, I'll take a flashlight and look around, and I suggest others to the same. Droppings are always a good early indicator. If you see evidence of a nest being made, clean the area and watch it. Disturb nest building, and usually the critter will realize it's not a good place to raise kids, and it'll try somewhere else. Once a rodent has moved in, it becomes a part of its territory. Raise a litter there, and it's now a great family neighborhood. Rodents mark their trails with urine, so a good cleaning will help remove the scent (ants do the same with pheromones).

Secondary poisoning is always a concern; it does happen; it was covered in our classes; and it is actually more rare than many people think, but even so, use pet resistant bait stations. Bait Fun Fact: Toxicity is measured by dose amounts per unit of body weight. EPA registered commercial pesticides (there's an EPA Reg# listed on the label which can be used to access info on the product via the EPS's pesticide website) are tested and assigned a standardized toxicity number called a LD50 number - LD for "Lethal Dose" 50 for the amount needed to be lethal to 50% of a test population of rats, the smaller the LD number, the more toxic the ingredient. Because baits are formulated for target species body weight based on LD50 numbers, what kills a 14oz packrat, is very unlikely to harm a pet weighting many pounds unless there's other health factors. After all, many people take Warfarin, the active ingredient in rat poison, as a medication. It's all about dose. The amount of poison in a dead or dying rodent's body is self limiting because it stops consuming, so the biggest danger is primary poisoning from direct bait consumption by a non target species - your kid or a pet. There's greater danger by people using raw bait in areas accessible to pets or little kids. A hungry small pet can ingest enough raw bait, if it has access, to cause an issue, which is why you shouldn't just toss raw bait blocks around. If you still don't want to use bait, build yourself a bucket trap, and maintain it. Do a search online for plans. They can be quite effective at reducing local populations if used correctly. I was required to post all applications for 24 hours with a contact number, so I had to be very careful, especially since our facilities were public and most included playgrounds, day-cares, kitchens, and cafeterias. We had to be careful, not just for pets, but for young and old people too.

Be sure to be active in your pest control. I had a packrat nest under my house, and it took several weeks of zapping before I got all of its inhabitants. My local Roadrunner LOVED the results of my zapping, as I tossed the fresh bodies in the backyard. Rodents breed rather rapidly, so you need to be an effective enough predator to outpace their breeding. That's why pros place simple traps or sticky-boards for monitoring, and recommend regular service. You want to keep track of activity and adjust your efforts to match. Just like the more quickly you rack up miles on a vehicle, the more often you change your oil. If you have a lot of activity, you need to go from normal maintenance schedule, to severe use maintenance schedule. Again, use repellents if you like, but don't use them instead of proven methods. Like vehicle maintenance, the better you are at doing it regularly, the better the results. Also, the more you take an active role, the better you'll "know thy enemy." The more you look, the better you'll get at spotting signs. As an example, while it doesn't apply so much to pests and our Spyders, but if you are looking for a rodent entry point or path on a vehicle or dwelling, one subtle but telling clue is the lack of dust in a small spot where everything else is dusty. Their fur is wiping the dust or dirt off as they pass. If they are going back and forth a lot, the hole or path can look a little oilier than the surroundings, again because of oil from their fur.

Sorry again for the long post. And here you thought only tire and oil discussion could lead to long winded posts.