Disappointment

[mxz600]

I made arrangements this morning for the dealer to address the main issues here, even a few miles before my 625 mile service. I was going to kill both birds with one stone, but decided the safety issues could not wait, and I did not want to ride the remaining few miles this way. I was pretty impressed when I found out that without even hearing directly from me, Carlo had already contacted them and told them to take good care of me. Thanks Carlo! I'll take it in today or Monday, for them to look at early next week. They have already put an alignment on their list. I'll let you know how things come out.

I must of just missed you today Scotty. I was at the dealer around 3:30 to pick up my Spyder and I saw your RT sitting outside. By the time I got done in the parts department they had put her inside. I do hope they can get everything taken care of and you end up with the machine you thought you were getting in the first place.

 

[NancysToy]

I'm sure we will love it too. We're really fond of our RS's. My dealer said that people are experiencing problems with the ride due to not being set up properly before delivery.

I disagree, respectfully. The alignment is done at the factory, and has nothing to do with dealer setup. The normal suspension setting is mid-way (3) from the factory, but your dealer can set it where you ask...or you can do it yourself. Even set to the top, with my 180 pounds, mine still wanders all over the road. If you get one, and it isn't right, you will know it. Have the dealer address it then. Not being able to ride for several months, after mine arrived during a Michigan winter, slowed down my ability to find the problems and get them taken care of.

 

[NancysToy]

I must of just missed you today Scotty. I was at the dealer around 3:30 to pick up my Spyder and I saw your RT sitting outside. By the time I got done in the parts department they had put her inside. I do hope they can get everything taken care of and you end up with the machine you thought you were getting in the first place.

Sorry we missed you. Never went inside the main building. Found a couple more issues on the way over, believe it or not. Sounds like they are devoting a major effort to taking care of things. That pleases me!

 

[skypup]

I disagree, respectfully. The alignment is done at the factory, and has nothing to do with dealer setup. The normal suspension setting is mid-way (3) from the factory, but your dealer can set it where you ask...or you can do it yourself. Even set to the top, with my 180 pounds, mine still wanders all over the road. If you get one, and it isn't right, you will know it. Have the dealer address it then. Not being able to ride for several months, after mine arrived during a Michigan winter, slowed down my ability to find the problems and get them taken care of.

I'll definitely do that. I had two issues with my sport bike involving creep and very squeaky brakes. After reading my comments on this board Carlos called me at home and assisted in resolving the issues. A clutch was replaced in my transmission and new brake pads installed. Result, issues are resolved. My wife and I are very fortunate to have found a great dealer who really cares (husband and wife team). We will be on a group ride with them tomorrow for some BBQ. Here in Texas, that's a good thing.
BRP and the dealer have showed us a reason to trust them and we will continue to do buisness with them. We love the "thinking outside of the box" in the design concepts and technology which BRP has demonstrated. All machines have issues. These machines :yes:can only get better with time and we decided the time is now.

 

[westgl]

Poor Handling

You may Have tried this already,

Jack the front end up, get at least one front wheel off the ground.

I have been wanting to do this with mine.

Grab the front wheel, (Once you have it in the air) one hand on the top of the wheel/tire, and one on the bottom then try to rock the wheel back & fourth or Up & down to see if there is any play.

Then grab the same wheel by the front of the wheel, and the back of the wheel, see if there is any play this way as well.

Then check all steering linkages for play

The RT-S comes with a swaybar maybe check that linkage as well.

Just a thought,

Westgl

 

[widowmaker2011]

Sorry we missed you. Never went inside the main building. Found a couple more issues on the way over, believe it or not. Sounds like they are devoting a major effort to taking care of things. That pleases me!

Scotty , haven't been around and didn't notice this thread. We had 2 2009 machines wander horrible and after tons of diagnosing and fiddling with toe, we found the control arm bushings were way way too tight and were almost frozen from the factory. New bushings and life was good.
Just a thought.

 

[NancysToy]

Scotty , haven't been around and didn't notice this thread. We had 2 2009 machines wander horrible and after tons of diagnosing and fiddling with toe, we found the control arm bushings were way way too tight and were almost frozen from the factory. New bushings and life was good.
Just a thought.

Thanks for another possibility. If the find the toe-in correct, and nothing loose, I'll have them check this. Odd, tight parts usually don't cause wandering.

 

[vendit]

Scotty,
I surely hope that your dealer can diagnose and repair your new ride correctly and efficiently! I seriously considered buying mine from this same dealer last spring, because I was impresed with their knowledge of the Spyder as well as they seemed to be pretty decent people! I ended up at another dealer that was closer to home, in case of service, etc.
I actually took a test ride on one of their demos last May. They have a nice "test track" on the roads around the dealership.

I am sure we all will be interested to hear what you find out. Hope all goes well for you, and that you can be enjoying your new ride and feel safe and confident when riding it.

Mike

 

[SPIIDR]

Hi

Just thought i would write this. Yesterday here in Australia(Melbourne) was a mild sunny day with winds of about 40KM to 50KM so i took the RT out for a 350KM ride to Lorne witch included Highway and A few Twisties on the Great Ocean Road. As i posted in a earlier post i have had my front suspenssion adjusted to the highest setting and 22 pond pressure in the front tyers. We rode two up and at speed of 100KM to 120Km with head wind and cross wind. I must say that the Rt peformed very well for the conditions still a bit of movement but you would except this in these conditions i think that even a small car would get pushed around in these condition as well. I must say that you have to be a lot more relaxed riding the RT and learn its limitations i have also found that in windy conditions having the winscreen all the way down makes a lot of difference. I do feel for you Mate and i think that the problem is with your RT now and i hope that BRP will come to the rescue. Having said that i do also think that a sway bar will help a great deal if one comes out please let us know and good luck hope you get on the road soon.

 

[skypup]

another comment

I'd like to comment again also. Yesterday my wife and I rode with 13 or so spyders and 20 individuals. We drove 188 miles up to 75 mph. We had HEAVY winds here yesterday. You could feel the winds moving you but the bikes held solid. We had two RT's directly infront of us, we were numbers 5 and 6 in our convoy. With two way communications (cardo bluetooth) my wife and I could comment to each other about the RT's performance. The riders themselves never expressed performance concerns and the bikes seemed to hold the road very well with little to no unsteadiness under the conditions. The main thing we observed was the up and down undulations on the RT's which helps to explain their cushier ride. This is a pic of our group yesterday and our RT test drive video on Saturday.

 

[2Gunns]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.

 

[Wheeler~]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.

:thumbup:

 

[skypup]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.

I agree. I worked as a production supervisor in the auto industry. QC and production rates are in direct oppostion. The problem for the manufacturer of any product is to strive for 100% QC and get the product to the customer on time. It is a fine balancing act. I had a department which manufactured the electronics for the SIR ie airbags. We needed to assure that these things would not fail. Even at .5% failure rate when you consider the numbers made, the liability would be tremendous. There will be some problems due to machines and people errors. It's the nature of the beast. The most telling signal that you are working with a good company is that they address issues when they come up. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gordy]

re steering

message for nancys toy I was out ryding my rts today and thinking about the trouble you are having with your steering.My rts is steering better all the time today it was fantastic.I believe you might have a tight ball joint or tie rod end on yours and the steering just stays where you point it.Having worked on steering for a few years I have seen this before hope this is some help. Gord

 

[NancysToy]

message for nancys toy I was out ryding my rts today and thinking about the trouble you are having with your steering.My rts is steering better all the time today it was fantastic.I believe you might have a tight ball joint or tie rod end on yours and the steering just stays where you point it.Having worked on steering for a few years I have seen this before hope this is some help. Gord

Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

 

[Wheeler~]

Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

To see if I was experiencing any of your problems today, at 70 mph I took both hands off the handle bars, while in cruise control, and my RT-S stayed true to the road. Didn't wander at all. Hopefully this is further proof your issue is not the norm. Are we on the same page?

 

[skypup]

Got mine today

Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.

 

[NancysToy]

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.

The phenomenon you are talking about is common with the Spyder. It is exactly what you theorized. I experienced it two years ago when I first rode a Spyder, and many others have too. A relaxed grip on the handlebars makes it go away.....if your Spyder handles normally. Unfortunately, mine does not! I will be very thankful after it is repaired. One reason I bought it was that the relaxed handling of Nancy's RS spoiled me.

 

[Wheeler~]

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.

:congrats: and welcome
Keep the tyre side down, ryde hard but ryde safe!

 

[ThreeWheels]

Further update on the handling:

I got the bike with 14 psi in the front tires. It had a real wiggly ride. Everyone here said pump up the tire pressure, so I did.

I had an opportunity to ride the Demo at Gargano's and it handled very well, much better than my bike.

They checked the alignment and repaired the toe out, putting in a very small amount of toe in to stabilize the bike. Much better ride, but still not as good as I wanted.

My hat's off to Gargano's, they didn't give up.

This morning I went out for a ride with them. I rode my bike, they rode their demo.

A little way out, we swapped bikes. The Demo still had better handling.

We stopped and checked my tire pressure. Before the alignment I had put 27 PSI in the front tires to get them as stiff as possible to stop the wiggle.

NOW, the pressure was too high. The tire patch was too rounded. Dropped the pressure down to 21 PSI. An improvement. Dropped the pressure again to 17 PSI, and it's a whole new bike. Much more stable. I may drop the pressure down a few more pounds, back down to 14.

Net Net, I'm feeling pretty good about things now. If I can only get the damn seagulls from crapping on the bike. They're rats with wings.