Cornering Nightmare - Update

[canamjhb]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

 

[Peteoz]

Thanks Jim, I am currently a “push with the outside arm” guy. I’ll give this method a run :thumbup:

Pete

 

[BajaRon]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

I use both methods, usually at the same time. I bias which arm is supplying most of the effort depending on the conditions. Both arms are using the effect of centrifugal force as a counter-weight. But you still need to anchor your body well (Before you start into the turn). Momentum can help, or hurt. You can use it to your advantage if you prepare for it. Use your momentum. Don't let it use you.

Experimentation to find your preference is a good idea. Smooth is Fast! Fast is Safe! Safe is Fun!

I can tell you that you have more control pulling that pushing. If you use just one arm, you are using just one set of muscles for 100% of the input. This can fatigue you more quickly. When using both arms, you're using 2 sets of muscles in each arm, and reducing the effort each arm must exert to get you through the turn. It can also help you stabilize your body motions.

If you can get into a balanced rhythm, it helps.

I don't think anyone ever 'Arrives' on this. But when you get to where you're no longer having to think about it. You are getting very close.

 

[cptjam]

Looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. Looks interesting! Joe

 

[Circ]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

 

[PMK]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

As a suggestion that I base on decades of experience racing and testing setups on two wheeled vehicles and more. Simply, ensure the Spyder settings are correct regarding the basics of tire pressures, those electronics in question are nulled, and ideally, you have a correct front wheel alignment.

Adding a Band Aid by altering your riding style when any of those settings are in question is compromising not only the handling, but also the safety of you and the vehicle.

There are times when applying that Band Aid is needed, but in simple terms why fight with a poor setup of the vehicle.

When the chassis is correctly set up, the remarks about riding with a looser grip on the bars, body position, even weighting the outside floorboard when cornering, or clamping the dummy fuel tank with your knees, all those things become more natural and instinctive, vs being an overreaction to a bad setup.

A correctly set up Spyder is extremely easy to ride relaxed and with minimal effort, basically you control the vehicle and it does not object, except maybe a Nanny flash occasionally.

All the best, whatever you decide.

 

[Papa103]

As another poster suggested. You need to find someone who has experience with Spyders and swap machines. See if he has the same problem with yours or you have the same problem with his. If you both agree its your machine then you will at least know where to start. This may save you a lot of time and money chasing a ghost so to speak.

 

[Circ]

Cornering Nightmare Update

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

 

[PMK]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

Very cool you now have it sorted out. As you learned, and many others should follow, adapting your riding technique to overcome an improper setup is not a great solution.
Out of curiosity, did you happen to note beyond mechanically aligning the wheels, were the sensors far from nulled? Maybe Joe, did not do a before worked on settings check.
Regardless, glad you now have a safer, fun machine to enjoy.

 

[cptjam]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

 

[Pirate]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

Ever come to central Cal or So Cal?

 

[PMK]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

To be clear, are you headed to Deland to do alignments again, or headed to Florida for ambassador training?

 

[PMK]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

Other owners, you should heed what has been posted within these posts but also the reply above specifically. These machines are a series of several systems, both mechanical, electronic and physical.

Granted, physically a rider can induce poor handling, but that requires an effort to do that. As for the mechanical and electronic stuff, each must be correct for all to play well together. Mechanically, a poor wheel alignment can create serious handling concerns or tire wear. A correct alignment without having the electronics in tune can trigger all sorts of concerns including handling glitches by activating safety systems. Even something as improper tire pressure can make the best setup machine a turd to ride. Not telling anyone what to do, just something to consider on these machines that employ so much technology.

 

[cptjam]

To be clear, are you headed to Deland to do alignments again, or headed to Florida for ambassador training?

Neither. Doing a 2022 demo tour to select dealers to showcase the new models. We asked to go to Deland, and the schedule conflicted. I’m hoping my fellow Floridians (high school in St.Pete, Grad school in Melbourne) can come see us! Our tours are so much better when we see our friends! All 21 of our weeks had friends stop by, and share the joy. Hope to see you all!! Joe

 

[cptjam]

Ever come to central Cal or So Cal?

We do! We need 8 Spyders per day of travel, so SoCal is 1 day. We have been to Tracy many times. Set it up with your club, and we are there!!

 

[cyclerambler]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

Have you made any of the shock updates since you started (preload adjusters/springs/new package)? If so can you share any what improvements you noticed? Agree with earlier posters that tight corners at 65 is dangerous...the rt is a great machine...going straight!

 

[JRat]

Neither. Doing a 2022 demo tour to select dealers to showcase the new models. We asked to go to Deland, and the schedule conflicted. I’m hoping my fellow Floridians (high school in St.Pete, Grad school in Melbourne) can come see us! Our tours are so much better when we see our friends! All 21 of our weeks had friends stop by, and share the joy. Hope to see you all!! Joe

Do you ever come to Indiana?

 

[Peteoz]

Thanks Jim, I am currently a “push with the outside arm” guy. I’ll give this method a run :thumbup:

Pete

So, Jim…….after a couple of months riding using your pull rather than my past push method on the bars, I have to say that I am far more comfortable with your method. There is something about pulling with the inside arm that makes cornering at all speeds a little smoother for me. I believe it slightly moves my body weight to the inside. I still use both arms from time to time, but predominately use the pull method. Thanks very much for the suggestion :2thumbs:

Pete

 

[Circ]

Cyclerambler, I have not made any more modifications yet. I want to ride a bit more on my 'new' machine and learn to 'feel' how the changes I made affect the handling. I can still induce the nanny but it takes a pretty heavy off-camber corner to do so. I am leaning towards BajaRon preloads with a spring upgrade but need more seat time to make that decision.

Only dragsters go straight

 

[Lew L]

Cyclerambler,

Only dragsters go straight

Maybe you've never ridden a Gen 1 V-Maxnojoke Made some mods and it's better but not "good" Launches hard though.............