Canisterectomy

[NancysToy]

This is true. Though once you get liquid gas in the canister it ceases to function as designed. Theoretically as you continue to pull air thru the canister via the purge valve and into the throttle body it should eventually clear the liquid and return to function. Unfortunately since we refill our tanks on a frequent basis new liquid tends to get in there and keeping it from functioning.

My canister sat out in the sun for a day getting good and hot and it no longer smells much of gas. I'm guessing that I've probably evaporated the liquid out of it and if I put it back in it would probably function untill the next splash of liquid.

One other thought, I don't think that evap canisters are required in every country. Are there any Spyder owners that don't have a canister that came with the Sypder? If so how is the tank vented?

Actually, I believe the evap canisters contain activated charcoal, whose function would be completely used up by any spilled gas. That would render the canister ineffective from an emissions standpoint, even if no liquid gas remained.

 

[Dragonrider]

I have all the tupperware off my Spyder to install some new farkles, and performed the canisterectomy last night. I found a metal fuel filter (Shuck's $1.99) and vented the line to the rear of the Spyder. I didn't want the fumes (or gas overflow) in front of either the cooling fan or exhaust.

We have another triple digit front coming next week & I'll let you know if this does the job...

 

[Tom in NM]

I have written about this before . . . . .

I am curious and maybe somebody can point me to where I can get more information.

I HAD the heavy gas smell / vapor problem. Not just the odor of gasoline, but vapor strong enough to start a gag reflex. Also, when I would fill up the Spyder ( a new 2008 SE5 ) when the light came on, it would only take about 3.5 gallons, but the top bar and triangle never darkened. There would be at least one episode of gasoline vapors in every ride.

All that stopped around 2,650 miles a couple of months ago. No gas vapors. It now takes 4.5 to 5+ gallons at fill-up when the light comes on. All the bars are dark on the indicator.

In another posting, Scotty mentioned that it sounded like the Purge Valve could have been stuck and was now unstuck. I should have asked at the time, but since everything was fine, I didn't - but, where can I find out more on how the purge valve and evaporation canister work? I get the premise, but not the mechanics.

This mod sounds like a solution that works and you cannot argue with success, but I would like to know more - just in case the problem comes back.

Thanks

Tom

 

[krb1945]

You may be able to purge a...

evap canister that has been flooded by and over filled tank. Put it under your outside shed and focus a shop spot light on it at a close range. This will keep it nice and warm for a few hours and all the gas will evaporate.

 

[Dragonrider]

We'll see what the future brings (100 degrees coming again) - but NO FUMES for the first time!! :clap:

 

[Some Guy]

I HAD the heavy gas smell / vapor problem. Not just the odor of gasoline, but vapor strong enough to start a gag reflex. Also, when I would fill up the Spyder ( a new 2008 SE5 ) when the light came on, it would only take about 3.5 gallons, but the top bar and triangle never darkened. There would be at least one episode of gasoline vapors in every ride.

All that stopped around 2,650 miles a couple of months ago. No gas vapors. It now takes 4.5 to 5+ gallons at fill-up when the light comes on. All the bars are dark on the indicator.

That exact thing happened to me. No more gas smell...ever. :thumbup:

 

[Latemarch]

{Snip}
In another posting, Scotty mentioned that it sounded like the Purge Valve could have been stuck and was now unstuck. I should have asked at the time, but since everything was fine, I didn't - but, where can I find out more on how the purge valve and evaporation canister work? I get the premise, but not the mechanics.

Thanks

Tom

Spyder stopped. Power off. Purge solinoid closed.
Vapors and air from the tank flow out the vent hose and into the evap canister where the vapors are absorbed by the activated charcoal in the canister. The air, minus the gasoline vapors exits via the small curved vent hose on the top of the canister.

Spyder started. Power on.
The purge solinoid is controlled by the ECU. It will open the purge valve anytime a rich condition is allowable. Startup with a cold engine is typically a good time for a rich condition so the solinoid will open. This allows the vacume from the throttle body to draw air thru the short curved hose and into the canister and draw out the gasoline vapors from the charcoal and burn them in the engine.
Once the engine warms up and typically in a closed loop control circuit the solinoid will close. It will again open whenever a rich condition will not adversely affect emissions. So it will open and close at various times during a ride.

Clear as mud?

 

[Dragonrider]

Yep, got all that. Now it pull nothing, and any fumes are vented to the rear of the Spyder. BTW, the cold engine rough idle is now gone too.. Go figure.

 

[Firefly]

Here is my 'Canisterectomy'.

Was a bit surprized to notice that my stock fuel filter hose has 2 different clamp styles on it - I've been told 'normal' worm-type hose clamps shouldn't be used for fuel lines.

Seems to run fine.

Here are the pics.

 

[Firefly]

NOTE:

I just found out the Purge Solenoid needs to be left in place--- otherwise you get a check-engine light......

All is good now----

 

[NancysToy]

Here is my 'Canisterectomy'.

Was a bit surprized to notice that my stock fuel filter hose has 2 different clamp styles on it - I've been told 'normal' worm-type hose clamps shouldn't be used for fuel lines.

Seems to run fine.

Here are the pics.

Someone (dealer?) has apparently replaced one of your fuel hose clamps in the past. Our filter has Oetiker clamps on both sides, as do the illustrations in the service manual and parts fiche. The service manual cautions against use of anything but the proper (OEM) type of Oetiker clamp, and the fuel filter kit even comes with two new Oetiker clamps. I have never found the worm clamps in the proper size to be an issue, but Oetikers are a sure thing when properly installed, and will not loosen like a worm clamp, or cut into the hose. I'd get it replaced as soon as possible. If there ever were an issue of some sort, they could point a finger at this...and deny that they had installed it.

PS - This could explain why your fuel hose was so short and so close to the head. Perhaps they remove a bit after they found it loose.

 

[Firefly]

Someone (dealer?) has apparently replaced one of your fuel hose clamps in the past. Our filter has Oetiker clamps on both sides, as do the illustrations in the service manual and parts fiche. The service manual cautions against use of anything but the proper (OEM) type of Oetiker clamp, and the fuel filter kit even comes with two new Oetiker clamps. I have never found the worm clamps in the proper size to be an issue, but Oetikers are a sure thing when properly installed, and will not loosen like a worm clamp, or cut into the hose. I'd get it replaced as soon as possible. If there ever were an issue of some sort, they could point a finger at this...and deny that they had installed it.

PS - This could explain why your fuel hose was so short and so close to the head. Perhaps they remove a bit after they found it loose.

Yeah-- I don't know why in the heck it's like that-----sure as heck wasn't me! I'm sure with my other mods they would blame me for it------ so yes--- I better get it changed.

 

[Latemarch]

Yeah-- I don't know why in the heck it's like that-----sure as heck wasn't me! I'm sure with my other mods they would blame me for it------ so yes--- I better get it changed.

I've actually mulling over whether to get an Oetiker kit. If I do much more hose work it just might pay for itself.

And it'll keep em guessing as to whether or not they were the ones that made that modification.

 

[Firefly]

I've actually mulling over whether to get an Oetiker kit. If I do much more hose work it just might pay for itself.

And it'll keep em guessing as to whether or not they were the ones that made that modification.

I just bought the clamps at Pep-Boys near the fuel line that said 'Fuel Line' clamps. They are different than the worm-gear clamps. They just have a solid clamp ring - and a screw that you tighten.

 

[NancysToy]

I just bought the clamps at Pep-Boys near the fuel line that said 'Fuel Line' clamps. They are different than the worm-gear clamps. They just have a solid clamp ring - and a screw that you tighten.

I ordered an Oetiker clamp kit. When it gets here, we can install the correct type of clamp.

 

[sylblk]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

 

[Firefly]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

I'm running the O2 mod from Evoluzione ---- so this is a non-issue for me. The only code I got is when I removed the purge valve--- so I put it back in-- but not connected to anything.

Seems like the evap deal is just there to keep the tree-huggers happy. Stockpiling gas fumes for future use sounds pretty dumb to me - and I really think this area is where the fires are starting---

I never topped-off my tank--- so gas should not have been leaking into the evap can--- but obviously it has.

 

[Latemarch]

I ordered an Oetiker clamp kit. When it gets here, we can install the correct type of clamp.

What did you order, from where and how much!

This is the one I found.
http://www.sealfast.com/f_oetiker_service.html

 

[Latemarch]

recommend against. if the evap system on the spyder is anything like automotive systems, when the engine control module controls the purge solenoid, it is expecting a richer report from the o2 sensor. not noting one it will eventually flag a code and check engine light. is the smell there only when tank is full? if not, liquid overflow is not the problem. remove the plastics and sniff around... gas smell is very traceable. if there is a liquid seapege you will see the stains.

The Spyder system is nothing like on most cars. It is a very rudimentary system without all the self test and pressure checks typical of most cars.

Been running for a while now without the canister and no error codes yet.

 

[NancysToy]

What did you order, from where and how much!

This is the one I found.
http://www.sealfast.com/f_oetiker_service.html

The two-eared standard clamps in the kit you found are not really a suitable substitute, especially for fuel lines. They do not meet the BRP spec. I ordered a stepless one-ear clamp kit (Oetiker 18500060) from Drillspot.com. Have not received it yet, but did get shipping notice. Fastenal and some other possible suppliers did not have them in stock. Grainger lists them, but had none locally and had a wait time of several weeks.