Can I use Mobil1 10W/40 Synthetic oil (Not MC) in my Spyder?

[BajaRon]

I know it's not directly applicable, but the oil change interval for a 1990 Acura I owned was 15,000 miles. And that was before full synthetics were an everyday on the shelf oil!

Your Accura does not run the engine oil through the transmission gear gauntlet. Transmissions are much harder on oil than an engine.

 

[BajaRon]

My understanding is that viscosity spread is more of an issue with dinosaur oils, and not so much with synthetic. Some synthetics are actually dinosaur oils with extra refinement (group III), but if you use a PAO or Ester based oil the spread isn't so important. The argument there is for 0w as the bottom number. 0w oils still have a viscosity in the thousands (cSt) at 0°, but have a lower pour point. YMMV (I'm not over my head, but I'm up to my hairline)

It is true that true synthetic oils (engineered at the molecular level during refinement like Amsoil, Schaffer and a few others) have much less trouble with viscosity spread. This is because they can accomplish it with a very small amount of additives. Most 'Synthetic' oils are not really synthetic. They are the old mineral (dinosaur) oil with a large additive package. Since the oil molecules in mineral oil are relatively fragile, the additives are designed to give them a coating which helps protect them, for awhile, from crushing force. When these protective additives wear out, the oil shears quickly and you will usually lose about 1/2 of your viscosity rating within a relatively few miles. When you get a 'Blended' oil (like the BRP XPS), you're getting 90% straight mineral oil with about 10% mineral oil that has an additive package. I compare it to taking tap water and adding 10% pure spring water. Are you really improving the product all that much?

 

[BajaRon]

So if Mobil 1 or Amsoil which I presume are PAO/Ester based were available in a 5w40 they would be superior to a 10w40 in same in that they would cover a wider range of temperatures fluctuations and provide better start up lubrication without penalty or does the viscosity spread thing still win?
I know this all probably only means my engine is going to die at 300,000 miles rather than 299,000 but damn it it's an oil thread you know the rules!

It is my understanding that a true synthetic 10w oil will flow better than a 5w mineral oil with an additive package 'Synthetic'. It is a bit confusing because you would think all 5w oils would flow the same regardless of compound. You have to go to the actual flow numbers to get an accurate idea of each product. And who has time for that?

 

[BajaRon]

Just my opinion........ Most of the previous discussions of oil and weights is general information, with no allowances for the weather conditions in the area were the oil is most likely to be used. Maybe it doesn't matter so much if, you put the bikes away in winter anyway, it seems the weight of oil being used should consider the average temperature of the area. If you are traveling, then the average temperatures will vary and you make a choice. An area where the temperature rarely drops below freezing in winter and the temperature in summer averages 95 to 100 degrees in summer, would not require the same oil weights as an area where the summer riding season was very short and the winter temperatures drop well below zero. Like I said, maybe it doesn't matter if you store the bikes when it is freezing, but not all bikes are stored, even in freezing winter weather. Not so much the street bikes like the Spyders, but dirt bikes/ATVs/UTVs/etc. used on farms, for riding fence lines, checking livestock, or used by Forestry where roads are not in good condition, would still run in winter months. I know some people up north who ride street bikes right on through the winter, if the roads are plowed.

With a search engine of your choice, you can find hundreds of charts with the recommended oil weights in relation to the average temperatures to be encountered. Some of the charts are for cars, trucks, some for diesel, but there are also charts from many of the motorcycle manufactures. There is not one simple answer to such a complicated question. Any oil is better than no oil, but trying to match the weights to the average temperatures you expect should also play a role in selecting your oil. Saying one weight range fits all situations is leaving out a lot of the info the decisions are based on.

I think it is a matter of 'One size fits all'. Most customers do not want to delve into oil viscosities, flow rates, manufacturing methods, etc. They just want someone to tell them what oil to use and go on. 5w/40 will work in most situations that a Spyder will encounter. Yes, it may be too thin for warmer areas, or too thick for some extremely cold areas if you are starting you Spyder in sub-zero temps. But, though probably not ideal, neither is is likely to create any large issues.

If the customer would like an oil more tailored to their needs. The information and products are out there to accomplish this. Like everything else. Lubrication is very important to some. And a waste of time to others.

 

[Cobwebs]

Most wear does occur at start-up. All things being equal in a sound engine. So, you want an oil thin enough to be delivered quickly at start-up. But it is not as simple as just going to the thinnest oil possible. The oil's cold start temperature is the determining factor. As long as the oil flows well at the cold start temp, that is all you need. Since a 10w oil flows well down to zero degrees. This is more than enough for most Spyders.

A thinner oil will also have a lower pressure than a thicker oil. A thicker oil (as long as it is flowing well) will give you better lubrication and protection. If you don't need the thinner oil, you're better off with a higher viscosity. Add to this that you are narrowing the viscosity spread, improving oil life and longevity. And you get a win-win situation.

Through the winter here I noticed much harder starting to the point of a momentary oh crap the battery is dead, oh hang on no its right we're away.....just.
Cold battery or oil or both but makes me think a 10w would only exacerbate the problem.Here's what I use.
https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4ST%205W-40%20(100percent%20PAO%20&%20ESTER)%20.pdf

Interestingly the manufacturer stipulates no substitute allowed,but no explanation given. They do have a 10w40 in their range which is why I am questioning its use.

 

[askitee]

Have a read from Motul .... some good advice that might rub a few here the wrong way.

https://www.advpulse.com/adv-preppi...fA_H1zR-Tm5QPublPGynAwCRmj11C_Dm8X3c6CmRwJkJE

 

[ButterSmooth]

Through the winter here I noticed much harder starting to the point of a momentary oh crap the battery is dead, oh hang on no its right we're away.....just.
Cold battery or oil or both but makes me think a 10w would only exacerbate the problem.Here's what I use.
https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4ST%205W-40%20(100percent%20PAO%20&%20ESTER)%20.pdf

Interestingly the manufacturer stipulates no substitute allowed,but no explanation given. They do have a 10w40 in their range which is why I am questioning its use.

They seem to hit all the hot specs. Viscosity index of 178! How expensive is that stuff?

 

[Possible]

Have a read from Motul .... some good advice that might rub a few here the wrong way.

https://www.advpulse.com/adv-preppi...fA_H1zR-Tm5QPublPGynAwCRmj11C_Dm8X3c6CmRwJkJE

Wow, a representative of a motorcycle motor oil company recommending motorcycle specific oil. Whodathunk?

Some of his observations may be stretching it a bit. LOL

"Also, these (automotive) oils contain detergent additives, whose ash content is relatively high. If used in motorcycle engines,
these could result in the formation of deposits on the piston crowns as well as the valve train. Deposits can cause
pressure build up, leading to perforation and burning of components."

Why would it cause deposits on motorcycle piston crowns, but not on automobile piston crowns? Last time I checked
four strokes all work the same way. Just color me skeptical.

 

[Cobwebs]

They seem to hit all the hot specs. Viscosity index of 178! How expensive is that stuff?

Half the usual price of Mobil 1 or Amsoil if on special.3/4 if not.

 

[troop]

Through the winter here I noticed much harder starting to the point of a momentary oh crap the battery is dead, oh hang on no its right we're away.....just.
Cold battery or oil or both but makes me think a 10w would only exacerbate the problem.Here's what I use.
https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4ST%205W-40%20(100percent%20PAO%20&%20ESTER)%20.pdf

Interestingly the manufacturer stipulates no substitute allowed,but no explanation given. They do have a 10w40 in their range which is why I am questioning its use.

Not available stateside..

 

[Cobwebs]

Not available stateside..

Paging all entrepreneurs............opcorn:

 

[glennm]

Through the winter here I noticed much harder starting to the point of a momentary oh crap the battery is dead, oh hang on no its right we're away.....just.
Cold battery or oil or both but makes me think a 10w would only exacerbate the problem.Here's what I use.
https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/MC-4ST%205W-40%20(100percent%20PAO%20&%20ESTER)%20.pdf

Interestingly the manufacturer stipulates no substitute allowed,but no explanation given. They do have a 10w40 in their range which is why I am questioning its use.

That is what we use in the Spyder and my son's XVS however 10w40. Went with 10 due to the warmer (and less cold) climate up here. That may change if I spend the winter in Toowoomba rather than on the coast.

 

[Cobwebs]

That is what we use in the Spyder and my son's XVS however 10w40. Went with 10 due to the warmer (and less cold) climate up here. That may change if I spend the winter in Toowoomba rather than on the coast.

Penrite's advice is..........''No substitute allowed'' means that Penrite only recommend that one product for that particular application.No other product in the range should be used where this message is shown on the product selector.

The product selector for 1330 engines says 5w40 regardless. No mention of temperature differences go to a 10w.Only guessing here but the additive package may be superior to alternative brands that require a bit of old school thicker is better thinking, don't know not a scientist.I'm sticking with 5w frew fick or fin

 

[glennm]

Thanks Cobwebs will look at giving the 5 a go next oil change which is just before winter 2021.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Considering the Spyder in question is Peggy's 2013 STS SM5, and waaaaay out of warranty, getting BRP to cover any warranty
issues is moot. And the engine in the Spyder is a detuned motorcycle engine, nothing special, and definitely not high performance,
or over stressed. There's nothing in the Spyder motor that necessitates any special oil. It's not much different from Harley-Davidson
recommending only Harley-Davidson oils for their tractor engines. All those oils are created by a few companies, unless BRP has their
own refinery, they are buying from somebody else.

Anyway, this is all just how I feel about motorcycle specific oils. I don't expect everyone, or maybe even anyone, to agree with me.
But I just feel I need to speak out when the motorcycle specific oil subject comes up. It comes up periodically on almost all motorcycle
forums I've ever been around for any time. I won't defend my views vociferously, because I just feel the way I feel. As always, freedom
of choice is a wonderful thing. Vote with your wallet, I do.

I may be late to this party, so all of my comments may have been said already.
It's all about the wet clutch plates, not the motor. The motorcycle specific oils don't have the friction modifiers that will cause the manual clutch to slip.
I think Harleys, as well as most cars, have a transmission that is separate from the motor. The Spyder transmission shares the same oil as the motor.

 

[GaryinWI]

I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.

 

[troop]

Well ... Now you did it As far as I know, BRP recommends 5w40 semi synthetic. Also, as far as I know, BRP is the only 5w40 semi syn oil that I know of. That makes it a monopoly of sorts on their end. You will NEVER go wrong, or do ANY harm, using a motorcycle specific 5w40 JASO MA/MA2 full synthetic oil in your Spyder. Especially at the recommended 9,000 oil change intervals. Quite a few m/c specific full synthetic 5w40's out there for less than the BRP oil. Not gonna get into the 10w40 debate. Heck, BRP loves it when you use their oils/filters/spark plugs/tires/etc. Just MUCH better options. YMMV ...

 

[fatboy]

i use belray 10-40 exs

 

[Possible]

I may be late to this party, so all of my comments may have been said already.
It's all about the wet clutch plates, not the motor. The motorcycle specific oils don't have the friction modifiers that will cause the manual clutch to slip.
I think Harleys, as well as most cars, have a transmission that is separate from the motor. The Spyder transmission shares the same oil as the motor.

Absolutely about the clutch, but so does nearly every other motorcycle manufactured in the last 50 years. You can find automotive oils without
the friction modifiers, and many, many people run auto oil in their bikes. Motorcycle specific oils have basically become prevalent in the last 20 or
30 years. So auto oils have been in use for a lotta years with few ill effects. I just hate spending big money for little effect.

 

[Possible]

I do not understand peoples desire to use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer? Do you think you know more than the manufacturer and the aftermarket is better?? Is it cost? Paid $30K for a bike and you risk damaging it to save a couple bucks every 10K miles? Is it so you can buy it at Walmart? You can order OEM kits on Amazon free shipping delivered to your door for same price as at dealership. Puzzled. Help me understand.

Not an issue, just show me where BRP has their refinery located. Somebody makes their oil to their specifications. You can find people who feel the same as you
when it comes to Harley oil, won't buy any oil that doesn't have the H-D label. Stay away from friction modifiers, and basically oil is oil.

On Edit:
It occurs to me that I didn't really answer the question why I "use oil other than what's specified by the manufacturer". It actually
boils down to the fact I hate getting ripped off. They specify the additive package, rebrand it to their label, and stick a big ol' price
on it. Irks me no end, so I don't buy it. I also don't buy Honda oil for my Interceptor, or Yamaha oil for my FJ when I had it.