Can I use Mobil1 10W/40 Synthetic oil (Not MC) in my Spyder?

[ghostrdr]

I have a 1998 Honda Valkyrie, other than what ever came in it from the factory, it has had nothing but Mobile 1 15/50 in it. It has 102,00 + miles on it with no problems. It is the Moly and "Energy Conserving" additives that cause clutch issues. There is a member on the online owners group that has 660,000 + miles on one with no clutch issues. I recently purchase a 2012 RTs Sm5 that will be getting Mobile 1 at the next oil change.

 

[troop]

I have a 1998 Honda Valkyrie, other than what ever came in it from the factory, it has had nothing but Mobile 1 15/50 in it. It has 102,00 + miles on it with no problems. It is the Moly and "Energy Conserving" additives that cause clutch issues. There is a member on the online owners group that has 660,000 + miles on one with no clutch issues. I recently purchase a 2012 RTs Sm5 that will be getting Mobile 1 at the next oil change.

I also use this version of M1 oil. I didn't mention it as I stuck to specific M/C rated oils.

 

[BajaRon]

I'm currently using M1 10w40 4T motorcycle oil. Can't go wrong with Amsoil 10w40 m/c oil either. If you opt for Shell Rotella T6, I'd go for the 15w40 version over the 5w40 version. The 5w40 is notorious for shearing down in grade. Not the best choice IMHO. Since BRP recommends 5w40, I'd stick with 10w40 full synthetic.
This is a great price on (6) quarts of 10w50 oil. I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-Powe...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1
Want to stick to OEM recommended 5w40 ? Here ...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISDII/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

The larger the spread between the low an high numbers. The more susceptible the lubricant is to degradation and sheering. Optimally, you want an adequate low number for the condition (cold start up temperature) but not lower than needed. 10w is good down to zero for cold start-ups. Most Spyders never see a cold start-up below zero. So a 10w/40 or even a 15w/40 is actually a better option than a 5w/40 for the Spyder. For a snowmobile, which can sit outside in much colder weather, not so much. But the Spyder is not a snowmobile (at least without doing some significant modifications).

Different oils of the same viscosity will flow at different rates on start-up so these numbers are not universal. But the rule of thumb is 5w down to -30 F, 10w down to 0 F and 15w down to 15 degrees F. A true synthetic oil will flow better cold than a mineral oil with an additive package (labeled 'Synthetic) with the same cold start viscosity rating. And a mineral oil 'Synthetic' will flow better than a blended oil with the same viscosity rating at cold start-up.

We are talking cold start-up only here. The outside ambient temperature has no affect on the engine oil once it reaches operating temperature. You can ride (if you are crazy enough to do so) in sub-zero temps with a 10w, 15w or 20w low number oil without issue. Because once the oil starts to warm, you begin to move towards the high number in the viscosity spread. The oil only cares what the outside temperature is at cold start because it has assumed that same temperature. Yes, you want a lubricant that flows fast enough to protect engine parts and function hydraulic components. But you also want an oil thick enough to protect them at the same time. Don't forget, a good oil will retain a protective film on components between operations. Giving you protection during the start-up phase until pressurized oil arrives. Which happens very quickly. At start-up, there is little to no load on components, and a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

 

[troop]

The larger the spread between the low an high numbers. The more susceptible the lubricant is to degradation and sheering. Optimally, you want an adequate low number for the condition (cold start up temperature). 10w is good down to zero for cold start-ups. Most Spyders never see a cold start-up below zero. So a 10w/40 is actually a better option than a 5w/40. Different oils of the same viscosity will flow at different rates so this is not universal. But the rule of thumb is 5w down to -30 F, 10w down to 0 F and 15w down to 15 degrees F. A true synthetic oil will flow better cold than a mineral oil with an additive package (labeled 'Synthetic) with the same cold start viscosity rating. And a mineral oil 'Synthetic' will flow better than a blended oil with the same viscosity rating at cold start-up.

We are talking cold start-up only here. The outside ambient temperature has no affect on the engine oil once it reaches operating temperature. You can ride (if you are crazy enough to do so) in sub-zero temps with a 10w, 15w or 20w low number oil without issue. Because once the oil starts to warm, you begin to move towards the high number in the viscosity spread. The oil only cares what the outside temperature is at cold start because it has assumed that same temperature. Yes, you want a lubricant that flows fast enough to protect engine parts and function hydraulic components. But you also want an oil thick enough to protect them at the same time. Don't forget, a good oil will retain a protective film on components between operations. Giving you protection during the start-up phase until pressurized oil arrives. Which happens very quickly. At start-up, there is little to no load on components, and a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

Not disagreeing. As stated above, I use 10w40 oil. That said, some owners don't want to stray from what the MFR recommends. That's why I showed the link to the 5w40. After I deplete my current inventory of 10w40/20w50, I might pull the trigger on a six pack of the 10w50

 

[BajaRon]

Not disagreeing. As stated above, I use 10w40 oil. That said, some owners don't want to stray from what the MFR recommends. That's why I showed the link to the 5w40. After I deplete my current inventory of 10w40/20w50, I might pull the trigger on a six pack of the 10w50

True, many do tend to go with what the manufacturer recommends. And I am not here to say they are wrong. I do think that if people realized manufacturers tend to sell what they have as opposed to the best possible fit. And if they educate themselves about how lubricants function, there would be less adherence to the OEM.

For example. There are still some who think BRP, Honda, Ford, etc., make their own lubricants. Not true. The only thing BRP about BRP oil is the bottle that you throw away. BRP has been using Castrol products since the beginning. Nor am I here to bad mouth Castrol products. My only intent is to put out accurate information so that those interested in making a more informed decision are able to do so.

 

[ButterSmooth]

... a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

In ancient times, when you poured pure 60 weight oil into your engine (think Harley), it was almost a solid when cold. Too many revs on startup would snap the oil pump shaft. Castrol GTX 5w-20 for example, has a cold crank viscosity of 4601 at ~0° (PQIA numbers).

 

[BajaRon]

60 weight oil is Road Tar!

 

[wingit3611]

I believe I have seen 60 weight for sale in the late 70's in New Mexico for use in Harley's. Hard to believe.

 

[Possible]

Not such a big deal for Harley's. They ran roller bearing cranks so all they needed was oil flow, pressure was relatively unimportant
Much different animal from the plain bearing cranks that require high pressure/flow. Put an oil pressure gauge on an old Harley and
you'd be lucky to see much measurable pressure at all.

 

[Navydad]

My Guzzi calls for 10w60 synthetic. I use 15w50 synthetic, much easier to find and dealer recommends Mobile 1. Doesn't need to be motorcycle specific because the Guzzi has a dry clutch. Valves checked/adjusted, oil and filter changed at 5000 miles. Takes all of 30 minutes for all start to finish. Simplicity at its finest. Nothing simple about my RT, but I still enjoy doing my own maintenance.
View attachment 185708

 

[BajaRon]

Not such a big deal for Harley's. They ran roller bearing cranks so all they needed was oil flow, pressure was relatively unimportant
Much different animal from the plain bearing cranks that require high pressure/flow. Put an oil pressure gauge on an old Harley and
you'd be lucky to see much measurable pressure at all.

Higher viscosities will give you higher oil pressures. Higher viscosities also tend to put more distance between lubricated parts. But higher viscosities do not dissipate heat as well as lower viscosities. As always, everything is a trade-off.

Components that have highly accurate tolerances do not need as thick an oil to keep them apart. What a lot of people do not realize is, a high quality oil in a well built engine actually keeps the hard parts from ever actually touching each other.

 

[Possible]

Yeah, all things being equal, you'll have higher temps with a 20W-50 than with a 10W-40 or 15W-40. With the old air cooled engines
it was always a trade off: better resistance to viscosity drop with a thicker oil and subsequent loss of oil film, or cooler running but
the possibility of parts actually touching with the lower weight oil, and too much loss of film strength. After many years of running 20W-50
Castrol GTX, I finally dropped down to a 15W-40 oil. It never caused me any oil related engine/transmission damage.

 

[Cobwebs]

The larger the spread between the low an high numbers. The more susceptible the lubricant is to degradation and sheering. Optimally, you want an adequate low number for the condition (cold start up temperature) but not lower than needed. 10w is good down to zero for cold start-ups. Most Spyders never see a cold start-up below zero. So a 10w/40 or even a 15w/40 is actually a better option than a 5w/40 for the Spyder. For a snowmobile, which can sit outside in much colder weather, not so much. But the Spyder is not a snowmobile (at least without doing some significant modifications).

Different oils of the same viscosity will flow at different rates on start-up so these numbers are not universal. But the rule of thumb is 5w down to -30 F, 10w down to 0 F and 15w down to 15 degrees F. A true synthetic oil will flow better cold than a mineral oil with an additive package (labeled 'Synthetic) with the same cold start viscosity rating. And a mineral oil 'Synthetic' will flow better than a blended oil with the same viscosity rating at cold start-up.

We are talking cold start-up only here. The outside ambient temperature has no affect on the engine oil once it reaches operating temperature. You can ride (if you are crazy enough to do so) in sub-zero temps with a 10w, 15w or 20w low number oil without issue. Because once the oil starts to warm, you begin to move towards the high number in the viscosity spread. The oil only cares what the outside temperature is at cold start because it has assumed that same temperature. Yes, you want a lubricant that flows fast enough to protect engine parts and function hydraulic components. But you also want an oil thick enough to protect them at the same time. Don't forget, a good oil will retain a protective film on components between operations. Giving you protection during the start-up phase until pressurized oil arrives. Which happens very quickly. At start-up, there is little to no load on components, and a reason you should not rev the engine immediately after it starts.

Just trying to get my head around this. When does most wear occur, at start up or during hot running? I always thought at start so you wanted the easier flowing oil for tight tolerance engines. That the oil breaks down quicker because of the viscosity spread is the worse of the two evils is what you are advocating so better to use 10w ?

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

FWIW, I recently came across are report on BITOG where a guy with a '16 F3L, 29K miles on it, changed his Amsoil with 9,600 miles on it; the Blackstone oil report showed it still good and recommended he try 12K next change. I know some folks can run their 1330's that long but I get in a dither if it gets to 5K. LOL

I know it's not directly applicable, but the oil change interval for a 1990 Acura I owned was 15,000 miles. And that was before full synthetics were an everyday on the shelf oil!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

50 years ago Sinclair dino 30W oil would be so thick at -10F that you could take a pan of it and hold it upside down and nothing would fall or drip out!

 

[ButterSmooth]

Just trying to get my head around this. When does most wear occur, at start up or during hot running? I always thought at start so you wanted the easier flowing oil for tight tolerance engines. That the oil breaks down quicker because of the viscosity spread is the worse of the two evils is what you are advocating so better to use 10w ?

My understanding is that viscosity spread is more of an issue with dinosaur oils, and not so much with synthetic. Some synthetics are actually dinosaur oils with extra refinement (group III), but if you use a PAO or Ester based oil the spread isn't so important. The argument there is for 0w as the bottom number. 0w oils still have a viscosity in the thousands (cSt) at 0°, but have a lower pour point. YMMV (I'm not over my head, but I'm up to my hairline)

 

[Cobwebs]

My understanding is that viscosity spread is more of an issue with dinosaur oils, and not so much with synthetic. Some synthetics are actually dinosaur oils with extra refinement (group III), but if you use a PAO or Ester based oil the spread isn't so important. The argument there is for 0w as the bottom number. 0w oils still have a viscosity in the thousands (cSt) at 0°, but have a lower pour point. YMMV (I'm not over my head, but I'm up to my hairline)

So if Mobil 1 or Amsoil which I presume are PAO/Ester based were available in a 5w40 they would be superior to a 10w40 in same in that they would cover a wider range of temperatures fluctuations and provide better start up lubrication without penalty or does the viscosity spread thing still win?
I know this all probably only means my engine is going to die at 300,000 miles rather than 299,000 but damn it it's an oil thread you know the rules!

 

[Gwolf]

Just my opinion........ Most of the previous discussions of oil and weights is general information, with no allowances for the weather conditions in the area were the oil is most likely to be used. Maybe it doesn't matter so much if, you put the bikes away in winter anyway, it seems the weight of oil being used should consider the average temperature of the area. If you are traveling, then the average temperatures will vary and you make a choice. An area where the temperature rarely drops below freezing in winter and the temperature in summer averages 95 to 100 degrees in summer, would not require the same oil weights as an area where the summer riding season was very short and the winter temperatures drop well below zero. Like I said, maybe it doesn't matter if you store the bikes when it is freezing, but not all bikes are stored, even in freezing winter weather. Not so much the street bikes like the Spyders, but dirt bikes/ATVs/UTVs/etc. used on farms, for riding fence lines, checking livestock, or used by Forestry where roads are not in good condition, would still run in winter months. I know some people up north who ride street bikes right on through the winter, if the roads are plowed.

With a search engine of your choice, you can find hundreds of charts with the recommended oil weights in relation to the average temperatures to be encountered. Some of the charts are for cars, trucks, some for diesel, but there are also charts from many of the motorcycle manufactures. There is not one simple answer to such a complicated question. Any oil is better than no oil, but trying to match the weights to the average temperatures you expect should also play a role in selecting your oil. Saying one weight range fits all situations is leaving out a lot of the info the decisions are based on.

 

[ButterSmooth]

So if Mobil 1 or Amsoil which I presume are PAO/Ester based were available in a 5w40 they would be superior to a 10w40 in same in that they would cover a wider range of temperatures fluctuations and provide better start up lubrication without penalty or does the viscosity spread thing still win?
I know this all probably only means my engine is going to die at 300,000 miles rather than 299,000 but damn it it's an oil thread you know the rules!

Mobil 1 is a Group III oil, not a PAO or Ester. It started out as a Group IV (true synthetic), but soon changed. The hydrocarbons used to formulate Mobil 1 come from crude oil, so it is a 'Super Dino' oil. Amsoil doesn't release any information about their formulation. Keep in mind that almost any of these oils far exceed the requirements of modern engines.

Gwolf hit a very important consideration. My motorcycles are stored in my shop, which never sees temps lower then 45°, so I don't worry about the low number. But, if you park your rig outside, live where it gets cold, and have occasion to start the engine when cold, personally I'd use a 0w synthetic or as close as I could get. In my conditions 15w40 Rotella T6 would be great -- no worries about 5w40 T6 either. My Blackstone reports show no significant loss of viscosity (breakdown) and they always say 'go further next time.'

 

[BajaRon]

Just trying to get my head around this. When does most wear occur, at start up or during hot running? I always thought at start so you wanted the easier flowing oil for tight tolerance engines. That the oil breaks down quicker because of the viscosity spread is the worse of the two evils is what you are advocating so better to use 10w ?

Most wear does occur at start-up. All things being equal in a sound engine. So, you want an oil thin enough to be delivered quickly at start-up. But it is not as simple as just going to the thinnest oil possible. The oil's cold start temperature is the determining factor. As long as the oil flows well at the cold start temp, that is all you need. Since a 10w oil flows well down to zero degrees. This is more than enough for most Spyders.

A thinner oil will also have a lower pressure than a thicker oil. A thicker oil (as long as it is flowing well) will give you better lubrication and protection. If you don't need the thinner oil, you're better off with a higher viscosity. Add to this that you are narrowing the viscosity spread, improving oil life and longevity. And you get a win-win situation.