Brake failure...again and again

[csmead]

Bike is back at the dealership after spending a week back home. The bike keeps (5 or 6th time since Dec) loosing the brake pressure, sends out alert which will remain until dealer clears it. The brakes will loose pressure once or twice during a long ride, pumping the brake returns most of the pressure. Like I said, the bike as been back and forth to the dealership. I don't want to give it back, just want it fixed. I told the dealer that I am bound for Hollywood, leaving on Friday. I must pick up the bike on Thursday or pick up a demo to take. :gaah:

Anyone else have issues with brake failure?
I have a ticket opened on this with BRP also, they will be calling the mechanics on Monday and said they will remote hook up to the BUDS to review the data. Has anyone seen a aftermarket code reader that will clear a code? Every few seconds I look down and see the word "failure" scroll across. I got enough of being called a failure by my parents, I don't need a constant reminder from my spyder!:lecturef_smilie:

 

[AMTJIM]

Believe me, I feel your pain. I am affraid to ride it anywhere and don't even like taking it to work for fear of limp mode and being late. Even my boss has had enough of this Spyder. Even though I am not sure this would work in your situation with losing brake pressure. I was thinking about this lately, why did they not make a by-pass card with dip switches that plugs into the BUDS port to by-pass the malfunctioning system so you don't have to be stuck hundreds of miles from home in "limp mode" and just have the owner sign a wavier at time of purchase.

 

[Firefly]

Sorry to hear you're having so many problems - I hope they can get you 100% back on the road.


Have not had any brake problems myself.

 

[NancysToy]

Sorry to hear your brake problems are back. This is a serious safety issue, and as far as I am concerned your dealer doesn't seem to be taking it seriously enough. Clearing the codes is not a repair! If they have to replace every stinking piece of brake hardware on the bike, so be it. They need to do it about yesterday! I know you want and need your Spyder this week, but I absolutely would not ride it until actual repairs are made. Disappointment is far easier to tolerate than injury. If I were you, I would report the problem to the NHSTA, then drop the Spyder at the dealer, and make sure they knew there was an NHTSA report. I would also email the BRP support email, and get Carlo involved. This machine either needs a new master cylinder or a master cylinder rebuild, or it needs a new VCM. Screwing around clearing codes because they haven't seen this kind of thing before, and their high tech diagnostics won't pinpoint a mechanical failure is risky, and your dealer should be ashamed. (End of rant.)
-Scotty

 

[csmead]

Hey Scotty, I will get back with you this evening with the part #'s you want.
I called Clawsons and they have not had the time to look at the bike yet. I am a stubborn woman, who despite having brake issues, took the bike on a 300 mile ride on Saturday through lower Yosemite (in one entrance and out the other). Testing the bike but not stressing the bike, I feel that I can make it. I told husband Bob to just sue if I end up driving off a cliff. I am sure the bike will get fixed then. I called the service dept. to remind them that I was picking up my bike or a loaner on Thursday morning after 10am. I have a caseworker from BRP assigned to the issue (called last Thursday) and have also spoke to the management at the dealership. She has a call into our area Rep, Tara. Of course, all that calling is not getting my bike fixed any faster and I don't believe they will have it ready for the trip. There is no way to order parts, etc, have them delivered and replaced in 36 hrs. No one wants to talk to me about a loaner.
Oh well, back to work... :dontknow:

 

[NancysToy]

Hey Scotty, I will get back with you this evening with the part #'s you want.
I called Clawsons and they have not had the time to look at the bike yet. I am a stubborn woman, who despite having brake issues, took the bike on a 300 mile ride on Saturday through lower Yosemite (in one entrance and out the other). Testing the bike but not stressing the bike, I feel that I can make it. I told husband Bob to just sue if I end up driving off a cliff. I am sure the bike will get fixed then. I called the service dept. to remind them that I was picking up my bike or a loaner on Thursday morning after 10am. I have a caseworker from BRP assigned to the issue (called last Thursday) and have also spoke to the management at the dealership. She has a call into our area Rep, Tara. Of course, all that calling is not getting my bike fixed any faster and I don't believe they will have it ready for the trip. There is no way to order parts, etc, have them delivered and replaced in 36 hrs. No one wants to talk to me about a loaner.
Oh well, back to work... :dontknow:

I was gonna PM you at a decent hour (CA time). Meanwhile, I'll hold my breath that you get something to ride in time...and that your ride is safe. No worse than me riding my old drum brake antiques, I suppose, as long as you allow lots of distance ahead, and know what to expect and how to cure it. Still, pumping up the brakes is worrisome. I'll PM you soon.
-Scotty

 

[csmead]

I was gonna PM you at a decent hour (CA time). Meanwhile, I'll hold my breath that you get something to ride in time...and that your ride is safe. No worse than me riding my old drum brake antiques, I suppose, as long as you allow lots of distance ahead, and know what to expect and how to cure it. Still, pumping up the brakes is worrisome. I'll PM you soon.
-Scotty

Hey guy are you there? Sent you a PM with ###

 

[Spyder#353]

I feel your pain. My spyder's brake failure kept coming on. Then I noticed brake fluid on the floor. I put fluid in and the failure code stopped. Bike has been in the shop for a week now. I even took off all the side skins. Thinking it would be fixed faster. No such luck. All they have to do is replace the master cylinder. The hard part is the ABS system. Thats what takes all the time. 6 hrs labor to adjust the brakes :yikes: Stupid BUD program:gaah:

 

[csmead]

I feel your pain. My spyder's brake failure kept coming on. Then I noticed brake fluid on the floor. I put fluid in and the failure code stopped. Bike has been in the shop for a week now. I even took off all the side skins. Thinking it would be fixed faster. No such luck. All they have to do is replace the master cylinder. The hard part is the ABS system. Thats what takes all the time. 6 hrs labor to adjust the brakes :yikes: Stupid BUD program:gaah:

A few months ago, they noticed that brake fluid had chewed away the paint off the frame. They took the bike in late Dec., tore it down and repainted the area, went through the brakes, no leaks, no loss of fluid but a loss of pressure, like air in the lines. It has been back 3+ times, (everytime) they tell me the cause was loss of brake pressure.

 

[AMTJIM]

Let me guess, they tried the "upgraded" reservoir caps(which were the original caps with a "U" shaped slit in the rubber):sour:

I feel your pain. My spyder's brake failure kept coming on. Then I noticed brake fluid on the floor. I put fluid in and the failure code stopped. Bike has been in the shop for a week now. I even took off all the side skins. Thinking it would be fixed faster. No such luck. All they have to do is replace the master cylinder. The hard part is the ABS system. Thats what takes all the time. 6 hrs labor to adjust the brakes :yikes: Stupid BUD program:gaah:

 

[spyryder]

A few months ago, they noticed that brake fluid had chewed away the paint off the frame. They took the bike in late Dec., tore it down and repainted the area, went through the brakes, no leaks, no loss of fluid but a loss of pressure, like air in the lines. It has been back 3+ times, (everytime) they tell me the cause was loss of brake pressure.

I'm wondering what they mean by "loss of pressure"? There's no pressure in a braking system until you step on the brake. Can you maintain pedal pressure or does the pedal slowly move down after applying the brakes?

 

[csmead]

I'm wondering what they mean by "loss of pressure"? There's no pressure in a braking system until you step on the brake. Can you maintain pedal pressure or does the pedal slowly move down after applying the brakes?

more like...driving, hit brakes, brake pedal bottoms out, alert starts scrolling (like I didn't know that I just had a brake failure), I pump brake immediately, and regain pressure but brake remains squishy and fails intermittantly.

 

[spyryder]

Is your parking brake ok? If it's out of adjustment it can also cause excessive brake pedal travel.

 

[dvmdf]

There is a safety recall on NHTSA web site about the brake lines having too much air. The dealer must repair that at no cost. You can check all the rcalls on NHTSA web site

 

[spyryder]

There is a safety recall on NHTSA web site about the brake lines having too much air. The dealer must repair that at no cost. You can check all the rcalls on NHTSA web site

Yes, I believe that was in Nov. of '07 for the reservoir caps not being vented. Under certain conditions a vacuum could be formed in the braking system causing air to be drawn in past the piston seals. Make sure the diaphragms in the caps have slits in them. If not then the recall wasn't performed.

 

[gazey]

Yes, I believe that was in Nov. of '07 for the reservoir caps not being vented. Under certain conditions a vacuum could be formed in the braking system causing air to be drawn in past the piston seals. Make sure the diaphragms in the caps have slits in them. If not then the recall wasn't performed.

Well I'll be :shocked:

This is a good example of the type of info a rider can get from this site.
I bet you what you like that if I hadn't seen a mod like this one I would never have known there was a problem until I had some sort of trouble.
And even then I bet the bike would have been in and out of the shop while they tried to reinvent the wheel.
Keep up the good work guys & gals.

Spyder Lovers.com rocks.:2thumbs:

Sorry to get of topic but I think it should be said :doorag:

 

[NancysToy]

There is a safety recall on NHTSA web site about the brake lines having too much air. The dealer must repair that at no cost. You can check all the rcalls on NHTSA web site

This recall only applied to the very early PE Spyders, all of which were produced in '07, as I recall, and sold early on. No need to bug the dealer if you do not have an early PE. If you do, you were sent a recall letter.

more like...driving, hit brakes, brake pedal bottoms out, alert starts scrolling (like I didn't know that I just had a brake failure), I pump brake immediately, and regain pressure but brake remains squishy and fails intermittantly.

My best guess would be a bad master cylinder. These can leak by the piston, without leaking externally. Leaking calipers will generally show externally, and cause a loss of fluid. Possible cause could be the use of the wrong type of brake fluid when you had your previous leak. The wrong type can ruin master cylinder (and caliper) seals and cause corrosion of vital metal parts. If they used the wrong fluid, the entire braking system needs to be dismantled, and each component inspected, rebuilt or replaced. All lines have to be flushed with the proper fluid, then the system reassembled, filled, and bled.

If you are using brake fluid now, there is a leak somewhere, which may not be easily detected. That may make repairs simpler if it can be pinpointed, but it may not be the only problem. My money is on the master cylinder. Still a very dangerous situation. It could escalate and fail completely without warning.
-Scotty

 

[csmead]

This recall only applied to the very early PE Spyders, all of which were produced in '07, as I recall, and sold early on. No need to bug the dealer if you do not have an early PE. If you do, you were sent a recall letter.


My best guess would be a bad master cylinder. These can leak by the piston, without leaking externally. Leaking calipers will generally show externally, and cause a loss of fluid. Possible cause could be the use of the wrong type of brake fluid when you had your previous leak. The wrong type can ruin master cylinder (and caliper) seals and cause corrosion of vital metal parts. If they used the wrong fluid, the entire braking system needs to be dismantled, and each component inspected, rebuilt or replaced. All lines have to be flushed with the proper fluid, then the system reassembled, filled, and bled.

If you are using brake fluid now, there is a leak somewhere, which may not be easily detected. That may make repairs simpler if it can be pinpointed, but it may not be the only problem. My money is on the master cylinder. Still a very dangerous situation. It could escalate and fail completely without warning.
-Scotty

Scotty, It seems like they want to try all the cheapest fixes first, I guess that makes good business sense. There is no time left to order and replace a master cylinder before Hollywood. They did not work on the bike Monday, I called. They said that they were going to have to pull BRP in on this problem, they are stumped. However, they have never, ever replaced any of the braking parts, just changed fluid and re-pressurized the system.

 

[rkteck]

I have often had a "brake Failure" warning after using the emergency brake. It eventually goes away so I stopped using it.

 

[csmead]

I have often had a "brake Failure" warning after using the emergency brake. It eventually goes away so I stopped using it.

Rarely use the E-brake, before the recall it was a pain and never held...so I just got use to not using it unless on a hill.