Anyone changed their 1330 trans filter yet?

[PaSpyderRyder]

I changed mine last summer and did not have Buds ........ no issues with it in the past year since I changed it out.

 

[El Dorado]

I did mine this summer, no buds and no issues at all

 

[Jetfixer]

I changed mine for the 28k service. It's not hard, but there are a couple of bolts that are a challenge to reach. Expect a bit of a mess, also. I also have BUDS. There is certainly a procedure that the computer follows to bleed air from the circuits. Is it necessary? The engineers that built the engine think so. A lot of the internet based engineers say it's not needed, but who knows for sure, right?

 

[BajaRon]

I changed mine for the 28k service. It's not hard, but there are a couple of bolts that are a challenge to reach. Expect a bit of a mess, also. I also have BUDS. There is certainly a procedure that the computer follows to bleed air from the circuits. Is it necessary? The engineers that built the engine think so. A lot of the internet based engineers say it's not needed, but who knows for sure, right?

Since I sell quite a few of these SE6 Trans filters and zero of my customers have had any issues without using BUDS. And we've herd no complaints from anyone here on Spyderlovers.com. I'd say the matter has gone beyond the 'Who Know's' stage and is pretty much settled. So, my question would be. Why does BRP say that you need BUDS to do this service? I'm not sure we'll ever get an answer to that one.

 

[CBXBob]

Changed myself 10,000 miles ago, ( a little early ). No buds , no air( I hope), no problems.

 

[Jetfixer]

Since I sell quite a few of these SE6 Trans filters and zero of my customers have had any issues without using BUDS. And we've herd no complaints from anyone here on Spyderlovers.com. I'd say the matter has gone beyond the 'Who Know's' stage and is pretty much settled. So, my question would be. Why does BRP say that you need BUDS to do this service? I'm not sure we'll ever get an answer to that one.

I bought my filter from you, Ron! My educated guess would be that since air can be compressed, the venting process done by BUDS is intended to prevent abnormal pressures building up within the valve body of the HCM and then getting "slugged" out, possibly causing either damage or accelerated wear on the HCM components. Also, compressed air in any hydraulic system can cause "foaming" of the fluid (oil in this case), which can continue through the hydraulic passages of the valve body until it gets back to one of the oil sumps to settle out. Personally, I don't leave air in brake or clutch systems, why leave it in an automatic transmission system?

 

[BajaRon]

I bought my filter from you, Ron! My educated guess would be that since air can be compressed, the venting process done by BUDS is intended to prevent abnormal pressures building up within the valve body of the HCM and then getting "slugged" out, possibly causing either damage or accelerated wear on the HCM components. Also, compressed air in any hydraulic system can cause "foaming" of the fluid (oil in this case), which can continue through the hydraulic passages of the valve body until it gets back to one of the oil sumps to settle out. Personally, I don't leave air in brake or clutch systems, why leave it in an automatic transmission system?

Thanks for the input. Very helpful.

 

[wd8ajj]

Local shop said as long as you see no filings in the oil can go 50K or more. Use GOOD full syn oil, Amsoil oe equiv. Follow regular oil and filter changes.

 

[El Dorado]

I think it would be a good idea to fill the HCM filter with oil before installing. The port is at the top of the filter and it should be easily done without making a mess. This would go a long way towards eliminating any air issues. Letting your engine idle for a minute or 2 after changing oil would also be a good idea. Pretty much a good idea with any oil service on any vehicle. Gives you a chance to inspect your work and check for any leaks. Though I have not had any customer experience any issues with this process. I am going to add these additional steps to my instruction sheet. Maybe overkill. But can't hurt.

Thanks for the input. Very helpful.

That seems like the way it should be done I did that when I changed mine.........

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Since I sell quite a few of these SE6 Trans filters and zero of my customers have had any issues without using BUDS. And we've herd no complaints from anyone here on Spyderlovers.com. I'd say the matter has gone beyond the 'Who Know's' stage and is pretty much settled. So, my question would be. Why does BRP say that you need BUDS to do this service? I'm not sure we'll ever get an answer to that one.

WHY ???? … :roflblack: … Lawyers + CYA + it's helps to fund dealers ….. I did mine awhile back - No BUDS - No Dealer - No issues …… Mike hyea:

 

[PMK]

I bought my filter from you, Ron! My educated guess would be that since air can be compressed, the venting process done by BUDS is intended to prevent abnormal pressures building up within the valve body of the HCM and then getting "slugged" out, possibly causing either damage or accelerated wear on the HCM components. Also, compressed air in any hydraulic system can cause "foaming" of the fluid (oil in this case), which can continue through the hydraulic passages of the valve body until it gets back to one of the oil sumps to settle out. Personally, I don't leave air in brake or clutch systems, why leave it in an automatic transmission system?

Your brake or clutch system on a manual gearbox setup, neither are recirculating fluid and filtering it. Since the HCM filter is filtering oil that is recirculated constantly, any air in the system should self purge, including any small amount possibly trapped in closed ends of the system.

Your brakes, while essentially an open system, for the most part move fluid back and forth, not continuously flowing with use. I bring this up, not focused at you even though I quoted you, but just as general knowledge.

 

[jtoro1]

I have change my transmission filter twice the bike has 66K running fine no buds got mine from baja ron

 

[irvin48]

I changed the HCM filter myself, no BUDS. I did have shifting issues for about one or two miles but it cleared itself up.'

i had the same problems.cleared up soon, just like yours. thanks for all the info everyone !

 

[BajaRon]

i had the same problems.cleared up soon, just like yours. thanks for all the info everyone !

What procedure did you use? Did you let the engine idle for a few minutes before riding away? Did you shift into 1st and reverse and let it idle in both gears before riding away? Just curious because some experience this shifting issue. And others do not. I am thinking it might be due to a difference in the process used.

 

[irvin48]

just let it warm up for a few minutes. backed out of the shop, and slowly shifted the first 3 gears up an d down.
kinda had a mind of its own. went about 5 miles shifting up and down. back to normal after less than a mile.
i came back and let it idle for a minute with the dipstick out in case a bubble or 2 needed to escape.got over 400 miles since.

 

[BajaRon]

just let it warm up for a few minutes. backed out of the shop, and slowly shifted the first 3 gears up an d down.
kinda had a mind of its own. went about 5 miles shifting up and down. back to normal after less than a mile.
i came back and let it idle for a minute with the dipstick out in case a bubble or 2 needed to escape.got over 400 miles since.

OK. Sounds like a prudent approach. I am trying to quantify why some have shifting issues and others do not. I'm not finding any pattern in this. I'm either missing something. Or, this is just a random issue.

 

[irvin48]

oh, and thank you for the trans and oil filters, brake pads ,and plugs. always good
service !-irv

 

[spyder01]

I just saw this thread and thought theres something I know about.I have been a transmission rebuilder for over 30 years.Heres my opinon as to why BRP says BUDS is needed.What is going on inside .When a shift is ordered by TCM a solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow into a piston that pushes the clutch into its disengaged position,then another solenoid moves the shifter arm to go up or down a gear or into reverse.After the gear position sensor confirms that the gear has changed another solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow to the other side of the piston causing the clutch to engage again, shift done,seems easy right but no so.The problem is that oil viscosity changes with temp and clutch friction levels change also and clutch thickness changes and gets thinner as the bike ages.The first automatic clutch I worked on was in VW Squareback wagon 1961 I think.It was a clunky quirky POS but it worked without a computer.Hydraulic control systems now use Pulse Width Modulated solenoids so that the TCM can control the speed that the fluid enters that piston chamber.They also use RPM sensors put in certain places so they can tell when full clutch lockup has occured or full disengagement has occured.They record the amount of time it takes for these events to happen and plug that info into a data table to get ready for the next shift.Now when you change that filter pockets of air get in the system,air compresses unlike fluid which instantly changes data in those tables which can react to the changes but not that quickly so it takes a few miles of shifting to bleed the air out which it is designed to do and get the data tables back to what they were before.The clunks/jerkiness that you sometimes feel is a result of TCM programming that isnt spot on,and that could be addressed by a computer flash update but this would cost BRP a lot and still would not fix the clunk into reverse or 1st when cold,that is caused by a problem where a heavy shaft is turning fast and simply does not have time to slow down to match the speed of gear its trying to go into.That would require a bit of redesign that I dont think they care that much about.As far as the filter goes some folks have it backwards,filters nowadays are very high quality usually 5 micron, large surface area dacron or polyester filters,whereas 50 years ago many so called filters were actually a brass screen which was a little tighter than a window screen.The reason for the change was bc old oil was thick,very thick when cold.The new oil is thin and stays thin at low temps.Also these control systems demand clean fluid.The reason why the dealer wants to reset your computer after a filter change besides making money is bc they can cycle the solenoids to get the data tables correct without actually causing any wear and tear,there is a real possibilty that if someone were to go out and "jump"on it during the first few shifts after a filter change they might cause a little wear on the clutch or get a hard clunk into a gear.When I had my shop we had scan tools to reset most cars but if we got an oddball we just drove it easy for a while and I never had a problem. IMHO,just change your filter if you can,check for leaks and take it easy on the initial test ride.If you beat on your bike and dont change the oil much you probably should change that filter at 28k,but if you go easy and change you eng oil filter when your told then maybe you can go a little longer on the trans.I like to save my work for the winter.

 

[BajaRon]

I just saw this thread and thought theres something I know about.I have been a transmission rebuilder for over 30 years.Heres my opinon as to why BRP says BUDS is needed.What is going on inside .When a shift is ordered by TCM a solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow into a piston that pushes the clutch into its disengaged position,then another solenoid moves the shifter arm to go up or down a gear or into reverse.After the gear position sensor confirms that the gear has changed another solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow to the other side of the piston causing the clutch to engage again, shift done,seems easy right but no so.The problem is that oil viscosity changes with temp and clutch friction levels change also and clutch thickness changes and gets thinner as the bike ages.The first automatic clutch I worked on was in VW Squareback wagon 1961 I think.It was a clunky quirky POS but it worked without a computer.Hydraulic control systems now use Pulse Width Modulated solenoids so that the TCM can control the speed that the fluid enters that piston chamber.They also use RPM sensors put in certain places so they can tell when full clutch lockup has occured or full disengagement has occured.They record the amount of time it takes for these events to happen and plug that info into a data table to get ready for the next shift.Now when you change that filter pockets of air get in the system,air compresses unlike fluid which instantly changes data in those tables which can react to the changes but not that quickly so it takes a few miles of shifting to bleed the air out which it is designed to do and get the data tables back to what they were before.The clunks/jerkiness that you sometimes feel is a result of TCM programming that isnt spot on,and that could be addressed by a computer flash update but this would cost BRP a lot and still would not fix the clunk into reverse or 1st when cold,that is caused by a problem where a heavy shaft is turning fast and simply does not have time to slow down to match the speed of gear its trying to go into.That would require a bit of redesign that I dont think they care that much about.As far as the filter goes some folks have it backwards,filters nowadays are very high quality usually 5 micron, large surface area dacron or polyester filters,whereas 50 years ago many so called filters were actually a brass screen which was a little tighter than a window screen.The reason for the change was bc old oil was thick,very thick when cold.The new oil is thin and stays thin at low temps.Also these control systems demand clean fluid.The reason why the dealer wants to reset your computer after a filter change besides making money is bc they can cycle the solenoids to get the data tables correct without actually causing any wear and tear,there is a real possibilty that if someone were to go out and "jump"on it during the first few shifts after a filter change they might cause a little wear on the clutch or get a hard clunk into a gear.When I had my shop we had scan tools to reset most cars but if we got an oddball we just drove it easy for a while and I never had a problem. IMHO,just change your filter if you can,check for leaks and take it easy on the initial test ride.If you beat on your bike and dont change the oil much you probably should change that filter at 28k,but if you go easy and change you eng oil filter when your told then maybe you can go a little longer on the trans.I like to save my work for the winter.

:agree: It isn't like BUDS does nothing on a HCM filter change. It just isn't necessary if you take a bit of prudent precaution. After any oil change (engine only or HCM) let the engine idle for 60 seconds or so before revving at all. You should do this anyway for any oil change. This allows oil to refill all the passages, expel any air, and bring oil pressure back to operating levels. Residual oil on moving parts is enough to protect the engine at low stress, idle, until the system is purged. It usually takes only about 5 seconds or so. 60 seconds is way overkill, but doesn't hurt.

As Spyder01 explains, restoring operational pressures and expelling air pockets is a bit more complicated with the hydraulic solenoids which control shifting on an SE model. I recommend shifting between 1st & Reverse a few times, sitting still before riding easy and shifting through all the gears. You're going to do it anyway, at some point. So, just go easy that first run to give everything a chance to purge the system.

As for mileage. If you do a decent job of maintaining and servicing your Spyder. It won't hurt to go a little farther than 28,000 miles on the HCM. But, for warranty reasons, I recommend changing it. This is one area where they could give you grief on a warranty issue. Just keep record of Date, Mileage and components used and you'll be fine.

 

[PatrickH]

Hello PW,
I'm about to replace my transmission filter. When you do a 1330 transmission filter replacement, is the gasket alone adequate to seal the cover plate against leaks? Or do I need to get some gasket sealer before I replace mine?
Regards, PatrickH