Any Update to the Update Yet?

[FANG]

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks the poll is 100% acccurate; but to say that this poll hold little water is inaccurate too.

This is one of the most active, if not the most active forums on the Spyder and up until the update a great many of us (that 40%) we basically happy with our rydes. Not everyone has a ton of mods that has voted. Not everyone that voted is complaining but 40% complaining on a most active forum would be somethjing that caught my attention.

BRP has not spent alot of money on advertising - the owners have been their biggest salesman -- if we are unhappy we don't recommend their product.

My :spyder2: ran much better before the update - steering issue was resolved but they have created another whole can of worms with the other things done during the update and many of us are not happy with the way our rydes are working.

I am not a statistic lover - but I do know that people who have not complained about their :spyder2:s in the past - don't like the way they are running and would like to have the :spyder2: set back to pre update settings -- THAT'S ALL

The poll indicates something, but not much.

• Is it all owners? Could non-owners vote? Did people create new IDs and vote again and again?
• It is from a point in time - some Spyders had a problems develop later - some got better - the numbers are not current/right now.
• Did everybody from this forum with a Spyder vote? and is Spyderlovers.com a good representative sample of owners?
• Was it the update, or something else? "I had the update done when my Hindle was installed, now my Spyder is too loud - even my neighbors are complaining" or "None of my Juice Box settings are working after the update and my Spyder runs like crap!" or "After having the update and service done, my brakes squeal - I am not a happy camper!"
• Another set of numbers from the forum shows 154 people have entered ESI's September contest - 279 have voted in the Update Poll. Are both numbers representative of forum active Spyder owners? Of Spyder owners world-wide?

So, what would be more "accurate"? I would guess that BRP would have the number. Total # of Spyders on the road. Total # of Spyders with the Update. Total number of complaints/problems reported resulting from the update.

Given the amount of data collected by the Spyder's computer and what is probably uploaded to BRP, they probably have lots of info (dealer, general rider driving habits, model, customer settings, general geographic location and maybe even operating temps.

All this "data" can be analyzed and cross referenced with part batches, run time hours, dealer update success rates, sensor settings and come up with some patterns of update failure to research and test further and fixes.

They probably don't have info on add-ons, gas grades, modifications, total vehicle weight, general vehicle condition. BRP is not psychic.

Key to all of this is that problems be reported to BRP, not just posted on an internet forum or by a phone call to a dealer. If BRP does not have your VIN and a description of what you are experiencing, you do not have a problem. And, resolutions - "Oh, my Spyder is running fine now - I'm good!" - so only problem cases can be focused on.

To keep it all in perspective, the problems that most are referencing are engine "tuning problems" and the worse cases I have heard of are computer failures.

People are having problems since the update. The solutions are not coming fast enough for them.

My opinion is BRP could have done a better job on the update - but not knowing the real number of issues it has generated or why, I don't know how much better. Personally, I would prefer more communication, but if BRP does not have anything it can to commit to yet, that probably will not be seen as helpful to the owners who are waiting.

I also think they are behind the curve on customer management on this problem. If they had an owners section where you could register a problem post update and track it, that might help - at least those with computers.

So, Bones, that ( and more ) is why this poll and lots of others like it are not worth a lot. If you want to believe it as fact or representational and supportive of your opinions, you can. For me, I know some riders are having problems, but I would not put any money on the poll numbers and ratios as being "good enough". I would put it on par with Daily Horoscopes.

Tom

 

[jwfranklin]

You know funny thing, when I called BRP to report mine having a problem. They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, and was told I was the only report of a problem they had. We know that is not true. Was told there was nothing but the DPS update in the software upgrade. Shouldn't run bertter or worse,I gave them my Vin # and was told to take it to my dealer and have him call with my vin#, where they told him any problems I had had nothing to do with the DPS update. ran fine before was less then 2 miles away when I knew it ran like crap. Got the impression if you personally report it to BRP, it is not reported. To be reported it has to be done by a dealer.
Don't know how acurate this might be. But I've noticed most of the ones having problems are from Hotter climates. Were the ones up north or from higher elavations seem to have have less, I beleive Bill (wbbrn1952) from Forida also mentioned this in an earlier post, and Brian (BJT) from Michigan said he didn't notice any broblems until he had it on a ride where it's temp reached 5 bars. I know mine is temp sensitive in the cooler mornings (our lows are high 60's to low 70's) it seems to run better, althought not as good as before the update. The warmer it gets (we still get to the mid to high 80's) the worst it runs. I feel in the next couple of months, when the temp get cooler. A lot of the problems will go away, but come Spring they will be back. As I have said before ALL I want from BRP is for my Spyder to run as good as it did before the update. I don't think that is to much to ask.

 

[dabreitbach]

You know funny thing, when I called BRP to report mine having a problem. They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, and was told I was the only report of a problem they had. We know that is not true. Was told there was nothing but the DPS update in the software upgrade. Shouldn't run bertter or worse,I gave them my Vin # and was told to take it to my dealer and have him call with my vin#, where they told him any problems I had had nothing to do with the DPS update. ran fine before was less then 2 miles away when I knew it ran like crap. Got the impression if you personally report it to BRP, it is not reported. To be reported it has to be done by a dealer.
Don't know how acurate this might be. But I've noticed most of the ones having problems are from Hotter climates. Were the ones up north or from higher elavations seem to have have less, I beleive Bill (wbbrn1952) from Forida also mentioned this in an earlier post, and Brian (BJT) from Michigan said he didn't notice any broblems until he had it on a ride where it's temp reached 5 bars. I know mine is temp sensitive in the cooler mornings (our lows are high 60's to low 70's) it seems to run better, althought not as good as before the update. The warmer it gets (we still get to the mid to high 80's) the worst it runs. I feel in the next couple of months, when the temp get cooler. A lot of the problems will go away, but come Spring they will be back. As I have said before ALL I want from BRP is for my Spyder to run as good as it did before the update. I don't think that is to much to ask.

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Tom in NM]

I don't think anyone on this forum thinks the poll is 100% acccurate; but to say that this poll hold little water is inaccurate too.

This is one of the most active, if not the most active forums on the Spyder and up until the update a great many of us (that 40%) we basically happy with our rydes. Not everyone has a ton of mods that has voted. Not everyone that voted is complaining but 40% complaining on a most active forum would be somethjing that caught my attention.

BRP has not spent alot of money on advertising - the owners have been their biggest salesman -- if we are unhappy we don't recommend their product.

My :spyder2: ran much better before the update - steering issue was resolved but they have created another whole can of worms with the other things done during the update and many of us are not happy with the way our rydes are working.

I am not a statistic lover - but I do know that people who have not complained about their :spyder2:s in the past - don't like the way they are running and would like to have the :spyder2: set back to pre update settings -- THAT'S ALL

Bill, I don't like statistics or how they are generally used either.
I do think the Poll does indicate "heat" and "buzz" on this forum.

If I were BRP (insert sounds of cracking thin ice) I would be listening to it and it would hold a little more water than "What is your favorite mod?"

However, I (if I were BRP) would be VERY concerned about you though. Here is a good customer, an avid Spyder rider and he is now dissatisfied. Bill I have read your postings, you are a fair guy, you don't complain about little things, you fairly evaluate different enhancements and are very supportive to the other members on the forum and its sponsors. Even with problems, you still love your Spyder, but this update has been a big negative for you. On top of that, a "bunch" of other owners like you are having the same problems and personal reactions.

As a fellow Spyder owner, I do not like seeing what you or any the others I have come to know on this forum, are going through. The only help and support I can offer is:

1. Report it to your dealer. (then do #2)
2. Report it to BRP Tech Support AND http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141564&postcount=1
3. Try some of the fixes documented on the forum. (optional)​

For ugly situations like this, I always think of two Winston Churchill quotes;
"If you're going through hell, keep going." and "Never, never, never give up."

I wish there was more that I could do. It is also frustrating for all of us other riders watching this happen and not being able to do anything about it - but nowhere as bad as what you owners are going through.

Tom

 

[aubierules]

I won't go into a monologue about stats,

good because its been beat to death

 

[aubierules]

You know funny thing, when I called BRP to report mine having a problem. They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, and was told I was the only report of a problem they had.

they(brp) told me the same thing when i told them i, plus others had an se5 shifting issue.

 

[ArmyJoe]

You know funny thing, when I called BRP to report mine having a problem. They acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, and was told I was the only report of a problem they had. We know that is not true. Was told there was nothing but the DPS update in the software upgrade.

I no longer expect BRP to tell me the truth on service issues. I found an the transcript of an online chat with Marc R. Lacroix, Marketing Director for Can-Am Spyder, from March 15th, 2009 at http://spyder.brp.com/en-US/Share/C...?EntryID=1947693a-63b2-4982-9c3a-c4900689ce69

He says four times that, "BRP has conducted extensive tests on the Dynamic Power Steering system and related electronics, and is satisfied of the results." Note that this is the same info word-for-word each time, so I'm sure he's just copying and pasting this information.

Whenever he was pressed further by the audience, he would tell them, "If you should have any technical questions or concerns with your Spyder roadster, please visit your authorized Can-Am Spyder roadster dealer."

 

[Smylinacha]

Bottom line - we own the machines and it's up to us to have good dealers to fix them, or know a good gearhead to figure out what is going on with them.

BRP does not give a rat's a$$ in my opinion. If they did, they wouldn't be sneaky and cram in some secret update in the update. And I expect nothing will change with their process of doing things.:dontknow:

 

[spyme]

So, update or not?

As of September 11, 2009, I have not yet had the update applied to our Spyder. I'm not experiencing any problem I feel I need to fix. So, given the "issues," would you update or blow it off?

--SpyMe

 

[baxter2215]

waiting and worried it wont ever be the same

in my opinion and i'm assuming many others i would not have done the update if would have known how it would have affected my wifes spyder.:lecturef_smilie:

it ran perfectly before and the addition of a hindle made it even better! from what ive read and heard from others its obvious that there are some issues after the update.

waiting now to see what happens. paying 16 grand for a machine a year ago that now has problems from an update thats supposed to improve it has been very frustrating. ours has been in the shop for three weeks as our dealer says he is trying to get information on how to correct it.:banghead:

 

[Spydr in KS]

The update "2.0" should be up this week.

What's up Doc?

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[Batmobile]

As of September 11, 2009, I have not yet had the update applied to our Spyder. I'm not experiencing any problem I feel I need to fix. So, given the "issues," would you update or blow it off?

--SpyMe

After my troubles and fix of the update, I would check the track record the dealer has with the update. After having to change dealers because the first one I went to I had the surging and the second one redid it correctly and now the surging is gone, I strongly believe a lot of the problems are caused by the dealer not following directions completely. As I have stated before, How can one dealer I know of do over 20 updates with no problem and then another dealer does 6 and 5 have the surging? Coincidence? I find it hard to believe that one dealer just happens to have a bunch of bad spyders and another doesn't have any.

Just my .02

 

[bcspyder]

After my troubles and fix of the update, I would check the track record the dealer has with the update. After having to change dealers because the first one I went to I had the surging and the second one redid it correctly and now the surging is gone, I strongly believe a lot of the problems are caused by the dealer not following directions completely. As I have stated before, How can one dealer I know of do over 20 updates with no problem and then another dealer does 6 and 5 have the surging? Coincidence? I find it hard to believe that one dealer just happens to have a bunch of bad spyders and another doesn't have any.

Just my .02

This is also my point. If the update was bad why are we not ALL affected? Can't be a bad component because nothing but information is being installed. My dealer has done quite a few with NO problems related to the update. Yes, the update identified some faulty DPS units but didn't CAUSE the problem.

 

[mjw930]

After my troubles and fix of the update, I would check the track record the dealer has with the update. After having to change dealers because the first one I went to I had the surging and the second one redid it correctly and now the surging is gone, I strongly believe a lot of the problems are caused by the dealer not following directions completely. As I have stated before, How can one dealer I know of do over 20 updates with no problem and then another dealer does 6 and 5 have the surging? Coincidence? I find it hard to believe that one dealer just happens to have a bunch of bad spyders and another doesn't have any.

Just my .02

This is also my point. If the update was bad why are we not ALL affected? Can't be a bad component because nothing but information is being installed. My dealer has done quite a few with NO problems related to the update. Yes, the update identified some faulty DPS units but didn't CAUSE the problem.

:agree:

Our Spyder ran good before the update and now runs even better after it. The dealer has a very good Spyder specialist and he made a point of describing all of the patches that were being applied. He then re-ran the check to make sure everything was at the most current level.

Firmware updates are tricky and if the process isn't followed 100% you end up with all kinds of erroneous errors. I would take it to another dealer and ask them to reflash the entire bike if it's not running correctly assuming it was correct before the first attempt as you say.

 

[Tom in NM]

This is also my point. If the update was bad why are we not ALL affected? Can't be a bad component because nothing but information is being installed. My dealer has done quite a few with NO problems related to the update. Yes, the update identified some faulty DPS units but didn't CAUSE the problem.

Agreed, but I am guessing that the updates "refined" and "narrowed" some of the parameters coming from the sensors or the mappings that calculate the control signals sent back to the engine. If the new configurations are more "sensitive", some components that were marginal or just slightly off-spec might now be "failing", like the DPS or GPS cases we have seen. Some add-ons like mufflers might also be pushing one reading beyond a given range and causing a control signal that creates an unbalanced operation of the engine. And a Juice Box puts another computer in the loop to fake out the computer in the Spyder - which, if you have problems might help you adjust the signals to get out of the performance problem or make it worse.

They could also have also just put in some default tables and bypassed the sensors or made them less sensitive.

Lots of guessing and plenty of ways to make a mess of it, on top of a poor install. And, perhaps only one thing causes a small issue, but as some things get compounded, operation can go from OK to bad in an instant.

Tom

 

[GeneralKaishi]

I have over 11k miles on my spyder and had the update over a month ago,
now I am having the same problem with the surging issue at around 3000-5000 rpm range. If you hammer on the throttle everything seems to be ok.
But when going 45 mph in 3rd or 4th gear you can feel the surging and hear the misfiring. Mine is not a well spyder

2008 SM5

 

[BeRight]

I have over 11k miles on my spyder and had the update over a month ago,
now I am having the same problem with the surging issue at around 3000-5000 rpm range. If you hammer on the throttle everything seems to be ok.
But when going 45 mph in 3rd or 4th gear you can feel the surging and hear the misfiring. Mine is not a well spyder

2008 SM5

You might consider taking it in for the update to the update (ECM). I've only read good reports about this second update. I had both updates done and all is well for my Spyder.

 

[bone crusher]

This is also my point. If the update was bad why are we not ALL affected? Can't be a bad component because nothing but information is being installed. My dealer has done quite a few with NO problems related to the update. Yes, the update identified some faulty DPS units but didn't CAUSE the problem.

Interesting point...my bike ran fine before the update and it still runs fine...I'm not sure if i should get the second update or not...

Any thoughts anyone?

I agree with others here that if certain parameters are tweaked, it could hit the edge of a tolerance and could lead to certain issues...this should affect a minority of vehicles.

In regards to the poll, it is useless...as others pointed out, those who don't even own a bike can vote...I agree that those who have problems will get online and find others with the same issues to work together to find solutions. I'd say maybe 5% of all Spyder owners have issues, but then again, that's about as valid as the poll....:shocked:

The second update should fix the issues that the first one didn't fix (or created)...as far as EVERYONE getting the new update, my dealership told me that only those with problems are eligible for the update...I'll keep riding to see how things go...would anyone here get the update even if all is okay at this time?

 

[NancysToy]

...would anyone here get the update even if all is okay at this time?

I have not had the first update done. Couldn't schedule it before my surgery. Then a significant number of people had problems...more with modified Spyders, but some with stock units. It also brought some previously unknown DPS and SAS problems to light. The result was a number of Spyders that either had ongoing problems requiring dealer attention. Having no desire to have trouble, then have to try to schedule an appointment again, and ride 35 miles each way to the dealer, perhaps with a chase car to bring me home while they kept the Spyder, I waited for the second update. My preference would be to get both at once, unless they wish to compensate me for my time, gas, and inconvenience if I need to return. It is absurd to refuse to provide the second update, since it takes so little time to download while the Spyder is hooked to BUDS.

As to the vent hose, it is my feeling we all need it. I know with my numerous complaints to the dealer about the gas smell since our Spyder was brand new, we sure want it and deserve it. If they are installing that, the ECM update takes far less time, and can be done almost concurrently. If I can't get everything brought up to date at once, I will find another dealer.

 

[Spydr in KS]

Interesting point...my bike ran fine before the update and it still runs fine...I'm not sure if i should get the second update or not...

Any thoughts anyone?

Just gitrdone:2thumbs:

I don'e see why any dealer would say no to the second upgrade if you ask. Mine reported no problems with any of the first upgrades, but when I asked if they could do both the response was "right on!"