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Another one bytes the dust... Front Sprocket Failure - Red Dust!

MakoShark2

MakoShark2

Member
We're just going out of lockdown here (Portugal, Western Europe), doing a little Spring maintenance and just found this...

20210406-193654-800.jpg


Totally aware of the problem been doing routine checks at 5000km/3100mi intervals.

For stats it's a 2018 F3-S euro model with 27000km/16777mi not using any belt tensioner, kept in a garage and driven 80% with no rain and mostly two-up.

Now I could take it to the dealer and have them replaced the pulley or I could do it myself...

For 2018 according to this: https://www.brppartspitstop.com/oemparts/a/cam/5b609e7687a8661c747aa5e4/rear-drive

I'll need:
Sprocket 28 Thooth #705502134
Screw-Hex.Flange Din.6921 S.Grip #250001017 (was #705502292?)

Strangely according to this: https://www.brppartspitstop.com/oem...0b1905e/drive-rear-common-parts-international

Sprocket part number has changed since Sep.2020
Sprocket 28 Teeth #705503239

Is this an improved version? Which one should I get?

Also there's seems to be two options when applying a paste:

Molly Paste:
Loctite 51048 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound /Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound

While Lamonster seems to have a different approach and recommend Loctite 648 bonding/retaining compound.

Any evidence or thoughts about this?

Finally, I'll certainly need a pulley puller - of any particular type? what kind works with the Spyder sprocket?

Any other tool I should have?

Also is there any videos or some kind of step by step doc about the procedure... probably asking too much but that would be great.

Thank you to all.
 
705503239 is the sprocket. 250001017 is the flanged bolt.

Doubt you will need the puller.

I used Honda M77 molly paste. Not sure on Loc-Tite numbers
 
EdMat said:
705503239 is the sprocket. 250001017 is the flanged bolt.

Doubt you will need the puller.

I used Honda M77 molly paste. Not sure on Loc-Tite numbers
Click to expand...

:agree: ... be very careful what paste you use I don't think Anti-seize compound is going to work .... and PRP had the same issue and used some WD-40 on the shaft and it slid right off .... be sure to get the splines Clean before using the Moly ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:
 
I used this paste on mine after premature pulley failure at 10k miles. I blame the dealer for the initial issue, but had them add this Loctite branded moly paste and reduce my belt tension. I've put 5k miles on it since. Still looks the same, just dust from dirt collecting on it..
 

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Just ordered the new sprocket and bolt today so I guess I'll be doing it myself.

153€+14€ = 167€ or around $200... not cheap.

Looking for the Moly Paste and it's not easily available here... will keep searching.

Thank you.
 
BRP Recommended

I don't know if this will help. BPR recommends Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It my be easier for you to find.
 
I just did mine last weekend. 2015 F3S with only 6700 miles. From the outside it looked ok but I had already purchased the new white pulley so decided to pull the old pulley, you will definately need a puller, I bought an $18 gear puller at auto parts store said it fit 4 inch gear and it was perfect. There I could see the red dust starting to form. I am glad to catch it when I was ready to deal with it. Took the bolt out with tire on ground and break on, raised the rear tire and rolled the belt off, pulled the pulley and then reversed the steps. I used the Honda 77 paste and was very carefull to clean the shaft well. Be sure to torque the bolt properly, i think 115. Not a difficult task. Good luck.
 
jiffy said:
I don't know if this will help. BPR recommends Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It my be easier for you to find.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but while it may be more readily available, the stuff does not hold up or last. My opinion is using Kluberpaste makes the reinspection and relube interval to be accomplished at each oil change.
 
So in terms of what should be applied we have:

Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound (or Loctite 51048/51049)
Kluberpaste 46 MR 401
Honda M77 (which replaced Honda M60) used for Honda shaft transmissions.

Now LB8012 apparently meets the requirement of 60% molybdenum disulfide (which is the main stuff we're all after).

A bit of controversy about Honda's M77 seems it does not meet the minimum needed 40% as the previous stuff (M60) would
see: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/m77-replaces-moly-60-apparently-so.163897/

Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 seems to not have any...

But they do have another product listed as Molly paste: https://www.norelem.com/us/en/Produ...7-Klüber-molybdenum-disulphide-lubricant.html

At this time, LB8012 seems the safest options...
 
MakoShark2 said:
So in terms of what should be applied we have:

Loctite LB8012 Moly Paste Anti-Seize Compound (or Loctite 51048/51049)
Kluberpaste 46 MR 401
Honda M77 (which replaced Honda M60) used for Honda shaft transmissions.

Now LB8012 apparently meets the requirement of 60% molybdenum disulfide (which is the main stuff we're all after).

A bit of controversy about Honda's M77 seems it does not meet the minimum needed 40% as the previous stuff (M60) would
see: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/m77-replaces-moly-60-apparently-so.163897/

Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 seems to not have any...

But they do have another product listed as Molly paste: https://www.norelem.com/us/en/Produ...7-Klüber-molybdenum-disulphide-lubricant.html

At this time, LB8012 seems the safest options...
Click to expand...

Kind of interesting to see you finding references to percentage of moly in the paste. Not sure where that info came from.

From experience using various moly pastes, assembly lubes, and greases, I would be more focused on a moly product that retains some viscosity vs drying out or so thin it runs out. Often it seems higher densities of moly tend kind of gum up, while greases tend to dry up as the carrier base is worn away.

Of the products you listed, my choice would be the Honda 77 which should be Molykote77.

Regardless, Crisco cooking lard would likely outperform Kluberpaste.
 
LB8012 explictly says +65% in it's datasheet: https://www.werkenmetmerken.nl/docs/Loctite_LB_8012_TDS.pdf

Now if Honda M77 is Molykote M77 then I think it may have other issues as the datasheet states:
"Suitable for lubrication points with low to moderate loads and low speeds that are subjected to water and extreme temperatures; at
temperatures above 230°C (446°F), the carrier volatilizes leaving virtually no residue, and the remaining dry sliding film itself takes over the lubrication up to +400°C (+662°F).
Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils.
Used successfully on metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates and the brake pistons of disc brakes."

datasheet here: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/...uments/en/MOLYKOTE M-77 Paste 71-0186G-01.pdf
 
MakoShark2 said:
LB8012 explictly says +65% in it's datasheet: https://www.werkenmetmerken.nl/docs/Loctite_LB_8012_TDS.pdf

Now if Honda M77 is Molykote M77 then I think it may have other issues as the datasheet states:
"Suitable for lubrication points with low to moderate loads and low speeds that are subjected to water and extreme temperatures; at
temperatures above 230°C (446°F), the carrier volatilizes leaving virtually no residue, and the remaining dry sliding film itself takes over the lubrication up to +400°C (+662°F).
Suitable for lubricating parts consisting of materials that are not resistant to mineral oils.
Used successfully on metal/metal combinations with frictional and contact surfaces, brake anchor plates and the brake pistons of disc brakes."

datasheet here: https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/...uments/en/MOLYKOTE M-77 Paste 71-0186G-01.pdf
Click to expand...

Not so much curious about the percentage of moly within the product vs where is the published data stating the amount required.
 
Oh that will never know as the paste BRP recommends seems to not have any.

For me now it's more a question of getting the right stuff at the right price.

Found LB 8012 and Honda M77 on ebay, both coming from the UK.

454g/16Oz/1lbs of LB 8012 at 84,47€/$100
or
75g/2.6Oz of Honda M77 at 41,5€/$50

I surely won't need 1 pound of paste and paying $100 for it seems a bit too much when I have already $200 in parts.

The Honda stuff is much more expensive, but still half that what I would spend for the Loctite. Would a 2.6Oz tube be enough to lubricate the splines?
 
RosieridderKy, I couldn't find those part numbers on BRP website, is that where you purchased the parts, or somewhere else? Thanks in advance...Clint
 
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