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Another one bytes the dust... Front Sprocket Failure - Red Dust!

Per my research on this issue, the problem (fretting) occurs due to movement between the splines of the pulley and the output shaft and concentrated pressure, causing microscopic friction points that temporary weld then fracture, creating the "red dust" phenomenon. The cure: lubricate the splines or immobilize the movement between the splines. My plan: If/when I find evidence of fretting, I will replace the pulley and apply Loctite 660 retaining compound to immobilize the pulley to output shaft interface. In the mean time, I run belt tension on the low side to mitigate the pressure on the splines. So far, so good at 9,300 miles.

pulley3.jpg
 
Hello guys and gals. Just finished installing a new front sprocket, washer, and bolt, on my 2015 F3. There was a little evidence of red dust, but not too bad. Everything torqued to specs, again not too bad, however getting the belt to line up and not touch the inside flange of the rear sprocket was another thing. After quite some time, I was able to get the belt, just barely off of the inside flange. Just have to go for a ride now, and see how the belt reacts. I installed a vibration dampener, LED fog lights, and LED Headlights. I would like to thank everyone for your help and information. Thanks again...Clint
 
Well, reading about all the failures of these drive sprockets, I decided this morning to head down to the cave and see what all this hype is about.
Took the plastic cover off expecting to find a sprocket covered in red oxide dust. Not a spec to be found. Sprocket manufacture date says 2015 on it. 8000 miles on it.
Maybe I got a got one out of batch of heat treated ones and then the furnace broke down for the rest of them. JK
 

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Front Sprocket Replacement (Red Dust)

Recently replaced the front/drive sprocket on my wife's '18 F3-T and thought I would pass on the info that I ended up putting together. She started hearing a rattle at low speed during deceleration. Pulled the cover and sure enough, Red Dust of Death on the sprocket.

Parts...
Did some checking, revised sprocket is part #705503239 and bolt #250001017. Part of the problem is getting the sprocket & bolt in a reasonable amount of time. In Vegas, nobody seems to stock it on the shelf and would need to be ordered out of Canada. When I checked on-line, I found every place I contacted said the same, would be ordered out of Canada. With ordering to Canada, everyone seems to be saying to expect 3-4 weeks to get the parts. When I talked to a local dealer, they were able to search inventory of other dealers and gave me a couple that listed as having in stock. Found a dealer in Texas that had the parts on the shelf and was at my door in 4 days.

Assembly...
There is a lot of info on what to use during reassembly. The latest info from Can-Am is to use a Moly Paste. This is an assembly lubricant. My research has shown there are only two products that should be used 1) Kluber - Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 (this is what Can-Am calls for) or 2) Loctite Moly Paste (also known as Loctite 8012). DO NOT use any other Loctite products. I was not able to find anybody in Vegas that had stock of any moly paste. Turns out, Can-Am now sells the Kluberpaste under Can-Am part #420297616. Dealer ordered it for me, had it in 2 days.

I hope this info is helpful to someone.
 
iskion1 said:
Recently replaced the front/drive sprocket on my wife's '18 F3-T and thought I would pass on the info that I ended up putting together. She started hearing a rattle at low speed during deceleration. Pulled the cover and sure enough, Red Dust of Death on the sprocket.

Parts...
Did some checking, revised sprocket is part #705503239 and bolt #250001017. Part of the problem is getting the sprocket & bolt in a reasonable amount of time. In Vegas, nobody seems to stock it on the shelf and would need to be ordered out of Canada. When I checked on-line, I found every place I contacted said the same, would be ordered out of Canada. With ordering to Canada, everyone seems to be saying to expect 3-4 weeks to get the parts. When I talked to a local dealer, they were able to search inventory of other dealers and gave me a couple that listed as having in stock. Found a dealer in Texas that had the parts on the shelf and was at my door in 4 days.

Assembly...
There is a lot of info on what to use during reassembly. The latest info from Can-Am is to use a Moly Paste. This is an assembly lubricant. My research has shown there are only two products that should be used 1) Kluber - Kluberpaste 46 MR 401 (this is what Can-Am calls for) or 2) Loctite Moly Paste (also known as Loctite 8012). DO NOT use any other Loctite products. I was not able to find anybody in Vegas that had stock of any moly paste. Turns out, Can-Am now sells the Kluberpaste under Can-Am part #420297616. Dealer ordered it for me, had it in 2 days.

I hope this info is helpful to someone.
Click to expand...

Kluber Paste is not moly fortified.
FWIW Can Am previously advised adhesive bonding the pulley to the shaft using a Loctite retaining compound. They followed this by stating to use Kluber Paste. Per your info, Can Am finally pulled their head from their backside and read posts here from at least 2017 until now and recommends moly paste. Pretty typical Can Am...

Sadly, it does not appear Can Am has made this a required maintenance item to accomplish a remove, clean, inspect and reinstall wet if the pulley is serviceable. At a minimum, if not sooner, this needs to be accomplished at the 28k filter change, but I believe it should be sooner than that.
 
PMK said:
Kluber Paste is not moly fortified.
FWIW Can Am previously advised adhesive bonding the pulley to the shaft using a Loctite retaining compound. They followed this by stating to use Kluber Paste. Per your info, Can Am finally pulled their head from their backside and read posts here from at least 2017 until now and recommends moly paste. Pretty typical Can Am...

Sadly, it does not appear Can Am has made this a required maintenance item to accomplish a remove, clean, inspect and reinstall wet if the pulley is serviceable. At a minimum, if not sooner, this needs to be accomplished at the 28k filter change, but I believe it should be sooner than that.
Click to expand...

SpyderDeb's 2018 F3-l failed b4 21K miles, while my 2015 F3-S was in excellent shape yet at over 32K miles (I do not baby it). One of the differences, aside from the year of manufacture, was that the F3-L pulled a trailer for ~25% miles. I bought a 2018 F3-T with very low miles: it was looking dry and had some surface rust on top of the splines at ~2K miles. Absolutely agree with your recommendation to do the inspection and lube earlier that 28K.
 
another one bites the dust, front sprocket failure

FWIW, The Honda moly assembly paste is a high moly paste used on drive shafts and rear drives. Readily available at your local Honda parts center for ~ $20.00 a tube.

Al in Kazoo
 
Well another one. one of my friends 2020 F3 had a new "white" front fitted 3 moths ago and its already showing signs (noise and dust) He is 80+ years old, no throttle jockey, doesn't tow a trailer, doesn't take a pillion (doesn't need to seems to have a woman in every town we visit :) ). I was thinking it was my imagination that mine was noisy, fitted 3000kms ago and BINGO - its flogging out. I'm on my 3rd.

SO BRP? Do we have to add to the service schedule - right after the oil change "replace front drive sprocket", or would it be better near the fuelling instructions, after all we seem to be doing these in between oil changes and fuel stops.

BETTER STILL GET YOUR **** RIGHT!!!
 
Reliability ain't Spyder's strong point. But then, folks don't buy em for reliability coz they rightly expect it to come with the product. This has been going on for 13 years.
 
When I replaced my pulley, I was surprised at how small the splines were, considering all the power they must transmit. On a number of occasions I've seen mechanical designs that were great on paper, but failed in the real world -- even when there was a large design margin over the calculated requirements.

My pulley was fine, but it was changed to fix the belt whine. Glad I ride gently. I wonder what the failure statistics are that persuade BRP to not fix this problem.
 
I see the front sprocket dilemma posted around...Questions: My 12 RTL is part #705502137 front sprocket 28 tooth and has an additional "flywheel" that fits on the outside..so a 2 piece system which I assume the flywheel rarely needs replaced. My 2014 RTS is part # 705503239 which is a 28 tooth "all in One" component that includes the "flywheel" attachment....(this part # runs through 2021) . Will part # 70503239 the "all-in one" flywheel/sprocket fit on my 2012 if I need it to-these look and sound identical..
 
From experience, the failure rate is about every 20,000 miles. I have over 85,000 miles on my F3-S and I am on my 5th pulley. My current pulley is the new "WHITE" pulley and has 6000 miles on it and there already is "red dust". I highly doubt the issue has been resolved.
 
SpyderF3-s said:
From experience, the failure rate is about every 20,000 miles. I have over 85,000 miles on my F3-S and I am on my 5th pulley. My current pulley is the new "WHITE" pulley and has 6000 miles on it and there already is "red dust". I highly doubt the issue has been resolved.
Click to expand...

Another member -" PMK " who follows this issue just told us that He read on Facebook that a NEW White pulley just failed :gaah: , just passing this on .... this leads me to believe that something changed after 2014 .... some possibilities are ... 1.- a different parts supplier was added and their sprockets are of poorer quality ..... 2.- the parts supplier for the " shaft " has changed and is of poorer quality .... 3.- the assembly paste has changed ..... 4.- the assembly procedure has changed .... I've been on this forum for quite awhile ( 2012) and I don't recall this being an issue PRIOR to 2015, so IMHO - BRP needs to investigate this A.S.A.P. ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:
 
I bought a new pulley a couple years ago at 10'000 miles but it didn't need it So a retorqued the New bolt to the new number about 13 lbs more than stock. I'm at 21'500 now so you all got me scared? I do have the New pulley and bought another bolt so I'm all set. I rarely go more than 50 miles from home and AMA covers 35 miles any destination ! The sm6 doesn't clunk as much as the SE in my experience if you shift smooth. Hope I wait for ever!!!
 
SpyderF3-s said:
From experience, the failure rate is about every 20,000 miles. I have over 85,000 miles on my F3-S and I am on my 5th pulley. My current pulley is the new "WHITE" pulley and has 6000 miles on it and there already is "red dust". I highly doubt the issue has been resolved.
Click to expand...

There's a ryder in Oz (member here too - Askitee ;) )who's been getting only about 3,000 kms before the sprockets start getting noisy on the shaft/failing, and he's already on his THIRD sprocket, so with you being on your 5th sprocket in 85,000miles, I don't think that '20,000 mile failure rate' is anything to bank on! :yikes:
 
Sarge707 said:
I bought a new pulley a couple years ago at 10'000 miles but it didn't need it So a retorqued the New bolt to the new number about 13 lbs more than stock. I'm at 21'500 now so you all got me scared? I do have the New pulley and bought another bolt so I'm all set. I rarely go more than 50 miles from home and AMA covers 35 miles any destination ! The sm6 doesn't clunk as much as the SE in my experience if you shift smooth. Hope I wait for ever!!!
Click to expand...

If you removed the pulley and cleaned the countershaft and pulley bore, then assembled wet with moly lube, you should be fine for a while. If your pulley was assembled dry, it is wearing, every time you ride. The bolt keeps the pulley on the shaft, the splines transmit the engine output to the rear wheel. Same as a car or truck drive shaft, propeller on a boat or the plastic pulley inside your computers printer. Splines do the actual work.
 
PMK said:
If you removed the pulley and cleaned the countershaft and pulley bore, then assembled wet with moly lube, you should be fine for a while. If your pulley was assembled dry, it is wearing, every time you ride. The bolt keeps the pulley on the shaft, the splines transmit the engine output to the rear wheel. Same as a car or truck drive shaft, propeller on a boat or the plastic pulley inside your computers printer. Splines do the actual work.
Click to expand...

When I took the bolt off at 10,000 miles to inspect I could not get the pulley off and it looked OK so I just put the New torque # on the New bolt and I have not seen any red dust as I take the cover off every 500 miles to check. I'm never far from home so no big deal but I wouldn't go 300 miles away!
 
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