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AMSOIL or BRP oil
- Thread starter Chazzman
- Start date
lyonsden
Member
Oil Filters
I was getting 31 and now 37?? :yes:We'll see how long it last. I just find it hard to believe it will continue.
I buy mine from BajaRon. Great price and delivery was quick. No complaints. I did go with the Castrol Full Synthetic and I am having a hard time believing my mileage increase of 6 miles to the gallon.
I was getting 31 and now 37?? :yes:We'll see how long it last. I just find it hard to believe it will continue.
amsoil
I've said this before Amsoil works great I have been a customer since 2006 started it in my motorcycle at 8000 miles it now has 49.950 miles stills runs like new. Change oil and filter every 5 to 6000 miles never a problem. Compression readings are still like a new bike would be. I also use it in my truck.
I've said this before Amsoil works great I have been a customer since 2006 started it in my motorcycle at 8000 miles it now has 49.950 miles stills runs like new. Change oil and filter every 5 to 6000 miles never a problem. Compression readings are still like a new bike would be. I also use it in my truck.
BajaRon
Well-known member
Point well taken Scotty and a fact that I have never discounted. Still, I think the risk is extremely small. With all the issues documented here on Spyderlovers, I believe we've seen very few lubrication failures, and even those were not oil related, if I remember correctly.
Dispite the appearance, I am not trying to talk anyone into, or out of a particular oil. I don't make anything on Amsoil so my opinions are not market driven (so to speak). I think getting the facts on the table helps each person make an informed decision. I hope it comes off as a discussion and not an argument.
Warranty lubricant specifications and oil change intervals are designed to maintain minimum lubrication reqirements. Yes, a manufacturer can, on a technicallity, attempt to deny coverage based on not meeting the letter of the contract. But at the same time it can easily proven that the warranty requirement of maintaining at least minimum lubrication has not only been met but exceeded.
If your primary concern is avoidance of any warranty issue, no matter how remote the possibility, then you should definitely follow all warranty requirements to the letter and keep very good documentation. If you want superior lubrication then you may want to consider Amsoil.
If you want the best possible lubricant combined with lower operating costs and you're willing to take the (IMHO) extremely small risk of a possible engine failure that BRP may deny warranty coverage for, then Amsoil and 5~6K change intervals is a very good option.
Everyone has to proceed based on their priorities and comfort levels. There is no right answer, just options.
hyea:
BajaRon
Well-known member
The Amsoil web site has a lot of great test data. I love charts! This one shows how well different oils maintain their viscosity when hot or what is actually going on inside your engine. It really is surprising how many oils simply don't live up to their numbers.
Amsoil also has charts showing how well different oils lubricate after they have a few thousand miles on them, how well they protect from corrosion, rust, combustion pollutants and all kinds of other real world criteria. These guys are very serious about oil.
As you can see, Castrol (the oil Honda and BRP uses) does not fare well in this category.
Information is knowledge and knowledge is power!
Amsoil also has charts showing how well different oils lubricate after they have a few thousand miles on them, how well they protect from corrosion, rust, combustion pollutants and all kinds of other real world criteria. These guys are very serious about oil.
As you can see, Castrol (the oil Honda and BRP uses) does not fare well in this category.
Information is knowledge and knowledge is power!
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Sorry but i just don't believe the Amsoil hype. I'm not going to say that it isn't a decent oil as it truly is, however Amsoil is in the business to make money, period end of story. Advertising, testing etc, cost's money. BRP is in oil for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to protect their engine's. By making quality oil they will lower warranty claims not to mention raise customer satisfaction by making a reliable product. XPS is developed and made in the U.S. by lube-tech. BRP as a company along with their engineer's could care less how this oil performs in any other application other than there own. No need to pay for commercials touting the quality, race teams, etc. Trust me, you can extend oil change intervals with XPS no problem as i can guarantee that during testing they push the limits far past the specified interval.
I'm not looking to start a fight here, just saying Amsoil works really hard and spends a lot of money in advertising and marketing to make you believe in their product which like i said before is very good, but if you want the BEST oil for your Spyder look no further than XPS.
I'm not looking to start a fight here, just saying Amsoil works really hard and spends a lot of money in advertising and marketing to make you believe in their product which like i said before is very good, but if you want the BEST oil for your Spyder look no further than XPS.
opcorn:
SteveMac
MOgang Member & Monster Member,
I don't know about the hype. I can only speak from experience with both oils. My Spyder ran smoother and shifted more smoothly when I did an oil change with Amsoil versus a dealer changing with BRP oil. I have no empirical data, nor do I have any affiliation with Amsoil. I'm just saying that it was a definite and perceptible difference to me.
That is why I will only use Amsoil in my Wing also. Works for me! :thumbup:
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MikeinGA
New member
I tested about 2 yrs. ago, when I was looking for a better oil and cheaper oil. It tested OK, but it had a note that read. It's good for 5,000 or 6,000 mile oil change and not much more. I know guy that runs the BRP Full Synthetic and he changed it every 7,000 miles, then he changed to Amsoil just that it was as good or a little better than the BRP brand to save $$$ and it's comes to his front door. The engine and the SE5 transmission was designed to use full synthetic oil. That's IMHO.
Mike
BajaRon
Well-known member
The original GS spec was for BRP's full synthetic. Later on they changed and now spec their blended oil. Personally I do not like blended oils. From what I've read you usually get about 10% mineral oil based synthetic and 90% regular oil. None have more than 30% synthetic in the mix.
Why dilute a better oil with a lower quality oil? To me it's just marketing, but then that's just me.
The bad thing about synthetic is the way marketing plays fast and loose with the term. Most 'Synthetic' oils are not true synthetic. They are doctored mineral oil (Group III base). They take standard mineral oil and mix in an additive package. The oil quality depends on the quality of additives.
Amsoil, and a few others, are true synthetic oil engineered from Group IV base stock. The oil is engineered from the beginning and has few if any additives because they are simply not needed. There is a big difference but with today's marketing the customer has to do some research to know the difference.
These pseudo 'Synthetic' oils almost never list their Base Stock Group number because they want you to focus on the term 'Synthetic'. They are usually good lubricants and cost less than true synthetics. But they are not as good as a true synthetic oil made from Group IV, Ester base stock.
Oils that are engineered from Group IV base stock will say so because they want you to focus on the quality of the product.
Wikipedia has a short, general rendering of this subject here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil
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willey
New member
Just my experience here.My wife and I traveled for four years with a Ford Power Stroke ,pulling a 33 ft camper with the bike in the bed.Our first oil change was done by a dealer in Fla.I asked him if he would use Amsoil Which he did.I asked him about change intervals.He said 10,000 miles,change filters and go another 10,000.That truck today has 250,000 miles with no engine failure.My son has had the truck for the last two years and he pulls a bigger camper than we did.
AHA!! That's really the question, isn't it?? I use Amsoil in all of my vehicles, but have an unbreakable rule that while a vehicle is under warranty, including extended warranty, I will not exceed the manufacturer's recommendation for oil change interval.
Just so you know, the new BRP recommended oil change interval for all :spyder2: before 2014 is 4600 miles, not 3000.
Highwayman2013
New member
:bdh:
Everything Amsoil says about their product is correct, IF YOU ARE AN AVERAGE DRIVER. I used to spend a lot of time on Bob Is The Oil Guy. One of the oil analysis reports posted there was from a 3000 mile run using Amsoil. The TBN was below 1.0 and the % water and % gasoline in the oil were dangerously high. In other words, the Amsoil was beyond shot. Turns out the woman who drove the car lived in Minnesota and drove the car about a mile to work every morning, a couple of blocks back and forth to a restaurant at lunch, and a mile home every evening. Sometimes she would stop at the grocery store which was about 6 blocks from her house on the way home to buy groceries. Because of these extremely short trips her engine never warmed up; she was constantly running a rich mixture; and she never boiled off the water of combustion. No oil in the world would have protected her from this driving pattern for 3000 miles.
Let me say the possibility of an engine or transmission problem due to extending change intervals when using Amsoil is very low. HOWEVER, if you have an engine or transmission failure and BRP determines you've been running extended oil change intervals, the first thing they will do is void your warranty due to failure to follow manufacturer's recommendations. Now Bad Dog6 or BajaRon may trot out the Magnuson-Moss act. What they probably won't tell you is that it is your responsibility to prove, in court, that BRP is wrong. AND to even get in court, the loss to you must exceed $25,000; a value which most used :spyder2: will never achieve. Even if you manage to get your case into a state court, your :spyder: will be confiscated as evidence and you'll be fighting the legal department of a major corporation in an attempt to prove to a jury that the failure was not your fault. During the trial, BRP will bring in numerous expert witnesses who will testify that the damage is your fault. Ask BajaRon, Bad Dog6, or Amsoil just how many expert witnesses they will provide, free of charge, to help you win your case.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think Amsoil is some of the best oil in the world. I abhor the fact that Group III oils can be refined to the point they can be marketed as "fully synthetic." However, that being said, these 'fully synthetic' oils are very good oil because of the advanced additive packages that are available today.
The point I'm trying to make is that running extended oil change intervals while a vehicle is under warranty is not a good idea if your pocketbook cannot pay for a new engine or transmission for your :spyder:. If you want the best protection for your :spyder:engine and transmission then use a Group IV oil like Amsoil and change it at BRP's recommended interval.
wyliec
New member
This is so true. :thumbup:
DaddySniper
New member
BRP, not ar my local dealership
I asked my local dealership what oil they put in spyders; they use Polaris, not BRP in the spyders. If I want BRP, I have to purchase it and then they will use it.
I asked my local dealership what oil they put in spyders; they use Polaris, not BRP in the spyders. If I want BRP, I have to purchase it and then they will use it.
ulflyer
Active member
The Only Way to Know is to have it TESTED
We can speculate all day but the only way any of you will know what works best on YOUR machine is to have it tested. Pesonally, I don't think we can say all our machines are the same.
For those that have done the testing, more than once, and find their oil of choice is good for extended miles, they have firm data to base it on. However, I couldn't extrapolate that date to necessarily work for my machine.
Heres why: I've sent six samples in at 3000 miles (at 2k for Castrol) on oil changes I've done and it comes back with a "caution" flag because the viscosity of the oil has sheared down into the low 30 weight. I change at 4000.
I've used Amsoil predominately but also tested Valvoline and Castrol Actevo Blend. Amsoil held up slightly better than Valvoline and much better than Castrol Blend. I tried the blend since BRP seems to put so much stock in theirs who many say is made by Castrol. I wondered if there's something special in a Blend.
The upside to Castrol, which I'm running now, is that shifting of the transmission has become incredibly smoother compared to it more clunky sounds when the other oils were used.
IF you spend much time reading BITOG you'll find that 10-40 oil simply does not hold up well in machines with wet clutches. Unfortunately, BRP doesn't warrant a heavier oil like 20-50 which would hold up for extended changes.
The lab I use with WIX prepaid samplers is ALS Tribology. You find the WIX kits on Ebay. Another good one is Blackstone. Email them for a free sample kit and you pay when you send the sample in, about $23 the last time I looked.
I'd love to hear the results of testing by others.
We can speculate all day but the only way any of you will know what works best on YOUR machine is to have it tested. Pesonally, I don't think we can say all our machines are the same.
For those that have done the testing, more than once, and find their oil of choice is good for extended miles, they have firm data to base it on. However, I couldn't extrapolate that date to necessarily work for my machine.
Heres why: I've sent six samples in at 3000 miles (at 2k for Castrol) on oil changes I've done and it comes back with a "caution" flag because the viscosity of the oil has sheared down into the low 30 weight. I change at 4000.
I've used Amsoil predominately but also tested Valvoline and Castrol Actevo Blend. Amsoil held up slightly better than Valvoline and much better than Castrol Blend. I tried the blend since BRP seems to put so much stock in theirs who many say is made by Castrol. I wondered if there's something special in a Blend.
The upside to Castrol, which I'm running now, is that shifting of the transmission has become incredibly smoother compared to it more clunky sounds when the other oils were used.
IF you spend much time reading BITOG you'll find that 10-40 oil simply does not hold up well in machines with wet clutches. Unfortunately, BRP doesn't warrant a heavier oil like 20-50 which would hold up for extended changes.
The lab I use with WIX prepaid samplers is ALS Tribology. You find the WIX kits on Ebay. Another good one is Blackstone. Email them for a free sample kit and you pay when you send the sample in, about $23 the last time I looked.
I'd love to hear the results of testing by others.
Oh boy, another oil thread and it's usual banter. And more AmSoil parroting and (their own "can't be biased") data to back up their claims. And yet, a recent used oil analysis on BITOG of AmSoil shows that after 3256 miles, in a Spyder, it sheared to a 20 weight. Sorry boys and girls, this engine and trans is proving itself to be a mixmaster of the nth degree. I've said it before, do not fall for the AmSoil (or Castrol, or Valvoline, or ANY) hype about extended drains. You are not doing yourself any favors. I just pulled a sample of my oil at 2000 miles for analysis. I'll have it back in a week or so, and that will determine if it stays for another 1000 (or zero) miles. But it's not likely it will make 3000 based on what I've seen. Blackstone kits are free as mentioned, then you send your oil and payment together. Schaeffer oils in Saint Louis has an on-site lab. Call them, they'll send a kit for a reasonable price. As well, Butler Labs (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/6/butler-machinery-sos-oil-analysis) will do a UOA also. Manage by fact. You spend a ton on a great machine, and probably lots more on farkles. What is 24 dollars or so to get a read on the health of your engine, and see if your oil is doing what is advertised?
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hchays
New member
I have to agree! I had a situation with my wife's car where the repair was a service bulletin and Mazda would not complete the repair without ALL service (oil change) records. I talked to several dealerships to see if this was true and they all stated the same thing. I was missing documentation for one oil change. Fortunately I found the records to prove it was done and within Mazdas recommended time frame. I like the idea of 6,000 mile oil changes, but it opens a door that the manufacturer can slam shut.
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