Amsoil 10w-40 metric oil - what do you think?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Kinda of a no brainier. If you admit to using a 10w40 oil in a engine with the OEM recommends a 5w40 they will win. No law degree just common sense. I know the 10w40 is a great oil and I use it. But in a law suit anything that isn't following OEM specs. You went on your own knowingly the spec is 5w40 and you pick 10w40. No where in the Can Am book do they say that you can use a 10w40.
David

The problem with your argument is that BRP "recommends" 5W-40. They DON'T "require" it be used. Recommend does not carry the legal weight that require does. In contract law you can't hold one of the parties in breach of contract if they don't adhere to a recommendation. If they don't follow a requirement then that is a breach of the contract.

 

[Warlock]

The problem with your argument is that BRP "recommends" 5W-40. They DON'T "require" it be used. Recommend does not carry the legal weight that require does. In contract law you can't hold one of the parties in breach of contract if they don't adhere to a recommendation. If they don't follow a requirement then that is a breach of the contract.

In my book it says the below copied info. Doesn't say recommended. There are several claims on the internet showing where people lost warranty due to using wrong viscosity oil. I have always used 10w40 in mine an will always use it. But in a case of engine failure you must provide good info on oil changes, oil used, etc. They could void the warranty if they choose. You might could win the battle in court, but that would take probably more than a year for a decission. We hope that most shops will not rat on the customer just to get out of paying for a engine. Also if they recommend a certain wt oil the ball is still in their court. Then it would be up to you to prove the oil didn't cause the failure being you used a different viscosity oil and that expense is out of your pocket unless like Amsoil steps in the pick up the cost and prove it wasn't their oil.

Use BRP XP-S 5W40 synthetic oil
(P/N 293 600 039) or an equivalentmotorcycle
oil meeting the requirements
for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container.

 

[Warlock]

This also applies to motorcycles.

https://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/

Just food for thought.

Also, right out of my book:

3. EXCLUSIONS–ARE NOT WARRANTED
The following are not warranted under any circumstances:
– Replacement of routine maintenance items such as, without limitation, oil and
lubricants, filters and spark plugs.
– Normal wear and tear, such as, without limitation, wear and tear of the tires, battery,
generator brushes, sealed beams and light bulbs, clutch plates and facings,
drive belt, brake pads, brake linings and rotors and sprockets.
– Tune ups and adjustments including without limitation adjustments of belt,
alignment and wheel balance.
– Damages related to the appearance of the Product, including without limitation
scratches, dents, fading, flaking, peeling and damages to seat cover material.
– Damage caused by failure to provide proper maintenance or storage, as described
in the Operator’s Guide.
– Damage resulting from removal of parts, improper repairs, improper service or
improper maintenance, modifications, alterations that are outside of the original
specifications of the Product, or damage resulting from repairs done by a person
that is not an authorized servicing Distributor / Dealer.
– Damage resulting from the installation of parts with specifications that differ
from the original Product parts, such as, without limitation, different tires,
exhaust system, wheels or brakes.
– Damage resulting from abuse, abnormal use, neglect or operation of the
Product in a manner inconsistent with the recommendations of the Operator’s
Guide.
– Damage resulting from water ingestion, accident, road hazards, submersion,
fire, theft, vandalism or any act of God.
– Damage resulting from operation with fuels, oils or lubricants with specifications
different than as recommended in the Operator’s Guide.
– Damage resulting from corrosion from road salts, battery acid, environmental
influences or treatment contrary to the Operator’s Guide.
– Incidental or consequential damages, including without limitation, expense
for gasoline, expense for transporting the Product to and from the authorized
Distributor / Dealer, mechanic’s travel time, trailering or towing, storage,
telephone, cell phone, fax or telegram charges, rental of a like or replacement
Product during warranty services or down time, taxi, travel, lodging, loss of or
damage to personal property, inconvenience, cost of insurance coverage, loan
payments, loss of time, loss of income, revenue or profits, or loss of enjoyment.

David

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

In my book it says the below copied info. Doesn't say recommended.

Would you like to search your owner's manual for yourself and find the ~ half dozen uses of the phrase "recommended oil", or do you want me to do it? Both the 2014 and 2018 RT manuals use the phrase 4 to 6 times. I didn't bother to count them.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

– Damage resulting from operation with fuels, oils or lubricants with specifications
different than as recommended in the Operator’s Guide.

"Damage resulting from..." That would be nigh impossible to prove. Lack of oil, easy peasy, 10w instead of 5w, pretty much impossible.

There's that pesky word, recommended. It doesn't say required, does it?

 

[Warlock]

Would you like to search your owner's manual for yourself and find the ~ half dozen uses of the phrase "recommended oil", or do you want me to do it? Both the 2014 and 2018 RT manuals use the phrase 4 to 6 times. I didn't bother to count them.

I found it in my book. But the way the use it is a catch 22. They could use it in their favor. But the bottom line is I'm not disagreeing on the 10w40 not hurting the engine just on the wording that BRP uses. My book doesn't have a oil chart but I have seen them in some of my other motorcycle books. If BRP had used the wording saying it you live it this climate you could use 10w40, but in my 08 book it doesn't say that anywhere. As in law suit wording can be a deal breaker and it states in the link I posted in the previous response. As in politics I will not convince you to see my way and I will not see your way. No big deal and it doesn't get under my skin. We could continue the disagreement for ever. I just hope no one ever has to do battle with this in a court room. I think it would be a dealer to make the waves as did the reason this thread started. I use the 10w40 and like ya'll would tell the dealer he is full of it. Just wording can throw a wrench into the gear works.
David

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I found it in my book. But the way the use it is a catch 22. They could use it in their favor. But the bottom line is I'm not disagreeing on the 10w40 not hurting the engine just on the wording that BRP uses. My book doesn't have a oil chart but I have seen them in some of my other motorcycle books. If BRP had used the wording saying it you live it this climate you could use 10w40, but in my 08 book it doesn't say that anywhere. As in law suit wording can be a deal breaker and it states in the link I posted in the previous response. As in politics I will not convince you to see my way and I will not see your way. No big deal and it doesn't get under my skin. We could continue the disagreement for ever. I just hope no one ever has to do battle with this in a court room. I think it would be a dealer to make the waves as did the reason this thread started. I use the 10w40 and like ya'll would tell the dealer he is full of it. Just wording can throw a wrench into the gear works.
David

I say we're good!

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMHO, in the US I don't think BRP can make a case against 5W, 10W, 20W, 50W OR 100W oil - because BRP MUST prove that whatever OIL is in the Spyder is what CAUSED THE DAMAGE - PERIOD ..... So now you can continue Speculating about it for another 50 posts :roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: ... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Easy Rider]

Just wording can throw a wrench into the gear works.
David

Of course it can. Using the right words is important.
But in this specific case unless you have some actual evidence that it IS or has been a problem your assertion is just wild speculation.

And has been pointed out by several people, in the US the burden is on the MANUFACTURER to prove that whatever was done actually caused the failure......if they try to deny a warranty claim.

So......what exactly do you think you are accomplishing by continuing to harp on something that likely doesn't apply ???

 

[pegasus1300]

Check out this statement from Amsoil about the FTC warning to Hyundai regarding their warranty wording that implied users had to use OEM parts & lube!

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/ar...a8f&esid=4ce072fc-916d-e811-90fb-005056988f87

Hey Johnny, I realize you are in Canada, but this might be fun to show to your dealer, and for anybody else who is having trouble with a dealer insisting on their parts.


[FONT=&quot]The FTC’s action against Hyundai is a victory for consumer freedom. As we remind consumers at amsoil.com/freedom... [/FONT]

• It is illegal to tie warranty coverage to whichever brand of parts or lubricants you use. Manufacturers that do so must provide the parts or lubricants free of charge
• You have the freedom to choose how you protect your vehicles and equipment, including use of products formulated for extended drain intervals
• Manufacturers can’t deny warranty coverage without showing the aftermarket part or lubricant caused a failure

 

[R FUN]

My dealer in Canada had an Amsoil banner on their wall. I made comment about it as I use Amsoil in everything I run. The dealer said BRP told them that if they are selling BRP products they are to sell only their products including BRP oil. The dealer still recommends Amsoil over BRP oil.
When I rode Harleys, Harley said DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL as it would destroy the engine. My dealer recommended Amsoil. Then when Harley came out with there own synthetic oil, they recommend ONLY use synthetic. Go figure.
Roger

 

[marty1096]

When I change my oil (once a year no matter the miles) I use Amsoil 100% synthetic metric motorcycle oil, SAE 10W-40 JASO MA/MA2. Thanks for the overview. :clap: :clap: :bowdown:

 

[FROGMAN]

New to the Spyder world (2024 RTL) but I have been riding Harleys since '75 and a BMW 1600 since '21. I live in Northern Idaho and average 10K a season (6 months). Changing oil with my Harley RK is simple, the BMW 1600 goes to the shop (too much plastic for my simple lift. Now the Spyder is a new adventure and I’m planning to change oil myself. I’ve used Amsoil and Schaeffer for my HD and the BMW shop uses BMW TwinPower Turbo Engine Oils.

I’ve read a lot of threads here pertaining to “what oil to use”, with responses from in-depth research to “this is what I use”. There are many variables that determine those responses and why. Oil, like gas and tires are subject to personnel opinions and cost. I do believe these three items determine your annual cost and have the most direct impact on your bike. Yes, we do spend a lot on the “I need this item”.

How much do you want to spend and how often do you want to change your oil, is it 5K or 10K. Does your choice of oil last 10K? There are riders that take the time and cost to have their oil analyzed, which tells us what oil last longer than others. Thank you for sharing your findings! If you change your oil every 5K, then it’s less likely higher end oils are needed. I said needed, not justified.

Warranty has been discussed; I have the extended warranty. So does that mean I must use what BRP recommends? “No”, as long as I meet or improve on their requirements. I’m much older now, I do not enjoy laying on the floor and turning wrenches. Thus, the 10K oil change is my preference. From what I’ve read “Amsoil 10W-40 Full Metric Synthetic is the better choice. It cost more, but lasts longer.

What is your opinion? :bowdown:

 

[Woodaddict]

Thus, the 10K oil change is my preference. From what I’ve read “Amsoil 10W-40 Full Metric Synthetic is the better choice. It cost more, but lasts longer.

What is your opinion? :bowdown:

recommended oil change is 9,300 on a 1330cc engine, so 10,000 not far over. Amsoil is a better grade and can go the 10,000 miles if you want. there has been discussion about Amsoil being better grade and going the distance

 

[BajaRon]

My dealer in Canada had an Amsoil banner on their wall. I made comment about it as I use Amsoil in everything I run. The dealer said BRP told them that if they are selling BRP products they are to sell only their products including BRP oil. The dealer still recommends Amsoil over BRP oil.
When I rode Harleys, Harley said DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL as it would destroy the engine. My dealer recommended Amsoil. Then when Harley came out with there own synthetic oil, they recommend ONLY use synthetic. Go figure.
Roger

This is an old thread, but it brought back memories.

When my 2008 GS started missing badly in 2009, I decided to change the spark plugs. I was surprised to see old school copper core spark plugs in there and changed them out to the NGK Iridium equivalents. I also built my own wires after seeing the very low-quality wires BRP was using. But that's another story.

I recommended that people upgrade to the NGK IX plugs when they changed out their spark plugs, and many took my advice. But then some started complaining that their 998 ran worse after installing the Iridiums than it did with the worn-out OEM's. I told them that the problem was the low-quality ignition wires. But understandably, some thought I was just trying to sell them a wire set.

Then BRP came out with an advisory bulletin (probably because they were getting so many calls from customers who had done the IX upgrade). The bulletin stated that the IX plugs I had recommended (it didn't name me, just the plugs) would not work in the 998 Rotax engine and BRP highly recommended that they NOT be used.

I definitely took some heat over that as (rightfully so) most felt the issue had been resolved. But I protested, that's ridiculous, I exclaimed! The engine doesn't know what spark plug you installed! As long as the heat range, dimensions and resistance are the same (which they were) there's no way those spark plugs could be a problem.

I also pointed out that regardless of who's wire set was used, those who replaced the wires with the IX plugs were reporting the improvements I spoke of. But the Spyder community, as a whole, seem to be quite risk averse and many went with the OEM plugs for a while. That is until BRP started putting Laser Welded Iridium spark plugs in at the factory! I believe that was in 2013. And all of a sudden BRP touted Iridium plugs as an advantage (which they are) and the world continued to spin.

I was very happy that BRP finally came around to reality!

 

[Mikey]

New to the Spyder world (2024 RTL) but I have been riding Harleys since '75 and a BMW 1600 since '21. I live in Northern Idaho and average 10K a season (6 months). Changing oil with my Harley RK is simple, the BMW 1600 goes to the shop (too much plastic for my simple lift. Now the Spyder is a new adventure and I’m planning to change oil myself. I’ve used Amsoil and Schaeffer for my HD and the BMW shop uses BMW TwinPower Turbo Engine Oils.

I’ve read a lot of threads here pertaining to “what oil to use”, with responses from in-depth research to “this is what I use”. There are many variables that determine those responses and why. Oil, like gas and tires are subject to personnel opinions and cost. I do believe these three items determine your annual cost and have the most direct impact on your bike. Yes, we do spend a lot on the “I need this item”.

How much do you want to spend and how often do you want to change your oil, is it 5K or 10K. Does your choice of oil last 10K? There are riders that take the time and cost to have their oil analyzed, which tells us what oil last longer than others. Thank you for sharing your findings! If you change your oil every 5K, then it’s less likely higher end oils are needed. I said needed, not justified.

Warranty has been discussed; I have the extended warranty. So does that mean I must use what BRP recommends? “No”, as long as I meet or improve on their requirements. I’m much older now, I do not enjoy laying on the floor and turning wrenches. Thus, the 10K oil change is my preference. From what I’ve read “Amsoil 10W-40 Full Metric Synthetic is the better choice. It cost more, but lasts longer.

What is your opinion? :bowdown:

I have been using it since the first oil change and have never looked back! I use their products in everything in the dooryard. :2thumbs:

 

[FROGMAN]

If Amsoil is better, why not use the 5W-40 vice the 10W-40 and not deal with the legal issue of 5w vice 10w? Is there that much difference between the two?

 

[Mikey]

Do you ride in a cold climate? What legal issue are you going to have? What are you scared of?:dontknow:

 

[BajaRon]

If Amsoil is better, why not use the 5W-40 vice the 10W-40 and not deal with the legal issue of 5w vice 10w? Is there that much difference between the two?

View attachment 209910

1st, there is no legal issue. We've been over this many times so I won't belabor it here.

When BRP made a 10/40 oil, that's what they recommended for the Spyder. 10 weight oil is good down to zero degrees startup. Once your engine starts to warm up, it doesn't matter what the outside temperature is. If you want to ride in 20 degree below, your oil and engine don't care.

Yes, if your Spyder regularly sits in temperatures below 0 degrees, then you should use a thinner startup oil. However, if you are starting your Spyder in warmer temps, then a higher viscosity startup oil is a better fit. BRP used to make many different lubricants for their products. But they consolidated to just 2 several years ago. 2 oils cover everything from snowmobiles to our Spyders. They have to make thin oils for snowmobiles. And thin oils do OK in our Spyders. But the 5/40 XPS oil you're using shears down to 20 weight at about 5,000 miles. Our testing shows that Amsoil 10/40 stays at or above 35 weight at 10,000 miles in the Spyder. We feel this is significant and that's why we recommend Amsoil.

Many will say they have been using XPS for thousands of miles with no issues. And that is true as well. Though I find it interesting that people are so careful to get a 5/40 oil. But are not concerned to run over 4,000 miles on 5/20 oil. I am sure that the Amsoil 5/40 will hold up better than XPS. I would love to see the numbers from someone that runs it 10,000 miles in a Spyder. All I am saying is that a 5 weight oil is unnecessary for the majority of us and a 10/40 oil will retain the higher number better.

The greater the spread between the lower and higher number. The less resistant to breakdown a lubricant is. This goes for all lubricants including Amsoil. My feeling is that Amsoil now makes 5/40 oil because of demand produced by manufacturers recommending this weight. Not because it is necessarily a better fit for that vehicle. I found a long time ago that it's easier to give the customer what they want than to try and educate them. People are sceptical, for good reason. What you intend as enlightenment, they may perceive as a sales pitch. I'm just saying, it's human nature.

Finally, though I don't think this is BRP's motivation. Many manufacturers are recommending thin oil to help meet DOT fuel mileage requirements and not because it is the best weight for longevity of the vehicle. For example. Ford's 5.4L gas engine recommends 5/20 weight oil in their cars. But recommends 5/30 for this same engine in their trucks. Trucks do not have the same fuel mileage restrictions as do cars. That engine is notorious for wearing out the very expensive chain drive cam phasers in the cars. But they last forever in the trucks. Ford says the cars don't work as hard as trucks so they can run the thinner oil for better mileage. But the facts don't bear this out. Sure, you may get a mile or two more per gallon running the thinner oil. But is that savings worth it?

Yes, modern engines can run on thinner oil. But is it the best? And consider that the low number is only for startup. 99% of the miles you put on your Spyder are at the high number. So you would think maintaining that high number would be very important. You have to wonder if that high number is supposed to be 40. What happens when nearly 1/2 of the mileage on your Spyder is run at 20? I also think this is why many notice their engine is much quieter after an oil change. I can't help but wonder if noise equals wear.

Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should run in their Spyder. If it makes you feel better to run XPS, then by all means do so. I'm just putting the information out there so everyone can make an informed decision.

 

[jfischer]

Do you ride in a cold climate? What legal issue are you going to have? What are you scared of?:dontknow:

The manual calls for 5W-40, and 5W-40 only. If you use anything else, that potentially gives BRP a leg to stand on to deny warranty claims on the engine and transmission. That's what I'm scared of. I will only use 5W-40 with the correct specifications (not necessarily from BRP/Can-Am though) until warranty is up. Which is in six years, so for the foreseeable future

Everyone is free to decide what they want to run, but I am not going to give Can-Am any more ammunition to deny a warranty claim than necessary that's all.