Amsoil 10w-40 metric oil - what do you think?

[BajaRon]

Actually the major difference is that HD and alike (including the older BMW boxer bikes) have a separate oil for the engine and transmission, and in HD's case a separate oil reservoir for the engine, transmission, and clutch/primary change drive.

Good point. And you can add air cooled to many of them as well.

Certainly there are differences. Higher viscosity if nothing else. Yet all of the 'V-Twin' Amsoil products feature wet clutch compatibility which creates an unnecessary price increase if it were truly only for the compartmentalized motorcycles.

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times. :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

While I have no problem with Amsoil where they can get you is stated a 5w40 rated oil and you are installing a 10w40. They are slick on their wording. I know and you know the difference between the 2 is a hill of beans. But in a law suit they will win based just on the 5w40 vs 10w40.
David

I don't think so. They would have to prove that the bike was started at temperatures cold enough that the 10w didn't lube as required and as well as the 5w, and that the the 10w didn't lubricate the engine as well as the 5w at operating temps. That would be an awfully long reach for them.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times. :thumbup:

:agree: Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!! :roflblack:

 

[BajaRon]

I don't think so. They would have to prove that the bike was started at temperatures cold enough that the 10w didn't lube as required and as well as the 5w, and that the the 10w didn't lubricate the engine as well as the 5w at operating temps. That would be an awfully long reach for them.

The low number, in this case 5w, only reflects the oils characteristics at cold startup. Other than that. A low number relative to the upper number only indicates a less stable, less able to resist shear and oil degradation than say a 10w-40 or even better, a 15w-40. This is universally true when comparing similar oils. Because it is the modifiers added to the oil that give it the viscosity spread. These additives are not lubricants. And as they break down the oil will change properties.

True synthetic oils, engineered at the molecular level during the refining process, need very little in the way of modifiers. So they tend to be more stable and more able to resist degradation than mineral oils with an additive package.

Once the oil begins to warm, and certainly at operating temperature. A low cold start number is actually a detriment to lubrication and protection. So at operating temps. A 10w-40 will protect better than a 5w-40.

While it is very important to have good lubrication at startup. A true synthetic like Amsoil will flow, lubricate, etc., better than a mineral oil at low temps. Not to mention that a true synthetic stays with metal parts better than a mineral based oil. Which means there is more oil where it needs to be before the engine even starts to turn.

Plus, as I mentioned. Unless your oil temperature has reached sub-zero temps. You don't even need a 0w or 5w oil. I would guess most Spyders don't even see freezing conditions at cold startup. 10w true synthetic oil is good well below freezing.

It is also interesting that no one has chimed in here bewailing the dire issues they have suffered under the scenario we are discussing. Nor have I ever encountered it in real life or any other forum that I visit. I think the reality is that unless you do something really stupid with your oil. It just isn't something the manufacturer can win in court. It's much easier to frighten the customer at the dealership level.

 

[2dogs]

Just don't and let them think you did...

In some cases, it's best not to ask questions you may not want to know the answer to. Just keep your mouth shut and let them think you did if you didn't, or you didn't if you did, and let the other party prove otherwise.

 

[Easy Rider]

:agree: Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!! :roflblack:

I think that is closer to the truth than you realize.

 

[BajaRon]

:agree: Maybe they make the distinction so that the owners of American made V-twins don't have to buy an oil made for "rice burners" when they want to use Amsoil!! :roflblack:

Exactly!

They are still getting 'Rice Burner' oil. They just don't have to know it!

 

[johnny canuck]

Picked up the bike today... and had a conversation with the service department re: Amsoil MCF 10w40. Their argument is BRP (Can-Am) ?may? not honor the warranty if anything happens to the engine/transmission because... It's NOT "5"W-40 like their BRP oil. They state that everything inside is hydraulically driven, and the oil may be TOO thick being a 10W. I showed them the pour point specs of -45 F (took a printed spec sheet with me). And I "jokingly" said if it's below 40F it's too cold for me to be out in it. He said it didn't matter and that he was putting the work order info into a file in-case Can-Am needs it in case of a warranty claim. Guess they want to play hard ball. We NEED a MAG/MOSS law here in Ontario.

 

[johnny canuck]

From the Owners Manual - Pg.128 "Under Engine Oil." Quoted from manual.

Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (P/N 293 600 121) "OR" a 5W-40 semi-synthetic "OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service able on the oil container.

Quotation marks on the word OR are mine.

"OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service label on the oil container.

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Johnny

Thoughts please. Yea, I know it's all open to interpretation.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Strictly, and legalistically, speaking I don't believe it is "certified". Certified has a specific meaning in that the organization that does the certifying issues a certificate stating that such and such a product meets such and such a standard. As I mentioned above Amsoil does not submit its oils to API for certification because they don't want to deal with the bureaucratic requirements of API. But, there is no doubt in my mind they have had labs verify that Amsoil meets the specifications of the API. If you look closely at their label it does not have the API seal on it nor do they use the word "Meets" in the box where they list the specifications it conforms to.

Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries? If they did that would imply that they have McDonald's stamp of approval. And you and I both know McD will never say another company's fries meets their specifications!

You could argue that we're splitting hairs. But when it comes to certifications and specifications strict adherence to definitions is critical.

 

[fatenhappy]

Pg.128 "Under Engine Oil." Quoted from manual.

Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (P/N 293 600 121) "OR" a 5W-40 semi-synthetic "OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service able on the oil container.

Quotation marks on the word OR are mine.

"OR" synthetic oil certified JASO-MA may be used as an alternative to the recommended oil. Always check the API service label on the oil container.

Amsoil Metric MCF 10w-40 is JASO MA and MA2 certified.

Johnny

Thoughts please. Yea, I know it's all open to interpretation.

Exactly!

 

[fatenhappy]

Strictly, and legalistically, speaking I don't believe it is "certified". Certified has a specific meaning in that the organization that does the certifying issues a certificate stating that such and such a product meets such and such a standard. As I mentioned above Amsoil does not submit its oils to API for certification because they don't want to deal with the bureaucratic requirements of API. But, there is no doubt in my mind they have had labs verify that Amsoil meets the specifications of the API. If you look closely at their label it does not have the API seal on it nor do they use the word "Meets" in the box where they list the specifications it conforms to.

Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries? If they did that would imply that they have McDonald's stamp of approval. And you and I both know McD will never say another company's fries meets their specifications!

You could argue that we're splitting hairs. But when it comes to certifications and specifications strict adherence to definitions is critical.

"Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries?..." I get where you are coming from here but that really is not how this/that works is it? …. Can Am themselves are specifying a certain International Standard as 'their' accepted alternative … As long as you 'live up to that / their quoted International Standard' you would be rock solid. You can't say we will accept 'This and This' as our minimum replacement Standard and then say ...'oh no we won't' after publicising it !

 

[KX5062]

Good point. And you can add air cooled to many of them as well.

Certainly there are differences. Higher viscosity if nothing else. Yet all of the 'V-Twin' Amsoil products feature wet clutch compatibility which creates an unnecessary price increase if it were truly only for the compartmentalized motorcycles.

Just my possibly wrong opinion that I think marketing has taken into account the ego of some who own a certain brand of V-Twin motorcycle.

In the end, it's all good! I just think it a bit amusing at times. :thumbup:

So true, you can never discount the marketing factor.

 

[Mr. White]

I have used Amsoil in my 2 Gold Wings and 3 Spyders. My dealer changes my oil and filters and uses my oil. They never said a word about Amsoil. I am 85 and do as I please. If anyone does not like what I do, they can meet me at the flag pole at high noon! :yes: :clap: :roflblack: :spyder2:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

"Anyone can produce french fries that match McDonald's fries. But would they be able to say "Meets" McDonald's specifications for french fries?..." I get where you are coming from here but that really is not how this/that works is it? …. Can Am themselves are specifying a certain International Standard as 'their' accepted alternative … As long as you 'live up to that / their quoted International Standard' you would be rock solid. You can't say we will accept 'This and This' as our minimum replacement Standard and then say ...'oh no we won't' after publicising it !

Very true, but the issue is certification. Since Amsoil does not have the API seal on the bottle we have to rely on their own or commissioned lab tests to know that they meet the standards. Verifying and demonstrating are not the same as certifying. If a dealer wants to be an a** and say that Amsoil is not acceptable because it is not certified by API that's his right. If he says he won't use Amsoil because it doesn't meet the API specifications then he would have to substantiate that assertion, something he can't, or can't afford to, do. BRP would be in same position, at least in the US. For BRP to deny a warranty claim because the owner used Amsoil they would have to prove that Amsoil is lying when they say their oil meets or exceeds the standards required by BRP.

Think of certification as the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If it bears the seal, the organization that controls the use of the seal has required the company to jump through a bunch of hoops before the seal can be applied. Now in the real world does certification prove compliance? Probably nearly 100% of the time it does, but if a company is dishonest it can find ways to fudge the submitted results and get a certification for a product that doesn't meet the specifications. In the world of contracts certification is prima facie evidence of compliance for products, and of proficiency for doctors, lawyers, etc.

If you've never dealt with certification then you may not realize just how meaningful and important issues related to it can be.

 

[BLACK REV 800 X]

Check out this statement from Amsoil about the FTC warning to Hyundai regarding their warranty wording that implied users had to use OEM parts & lube!

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/ar...a8f&esid=4ce072fc-916d-e811-90fb-005056988f87

 

[Warlock]

Pure speculation.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that in advance.

Not speculation if you admit to using it YOU will lose. Now if you hadn't said you was using the10w40 it would be hard to prove

 

[Warlock]

and had a conversation with the service department re: Amsoil MCF 10w40. Their argument is BRP(can-am) ?may? not honor the warranty if anything happens to the engine/transmission because.............. it's NOT "5"w-40 like their BRP oil. They state that everything inside is hydraulically driven and the oil may be TOO thick being a 10W. I showed them the pour point specs of -45 F (took a printed spec sheet with me). And I "jokingly" said if it's below 40F it's too cold for me to be out in it. Said it didn't matter and he was putting the work order info into a file incase Can-am needs it in case of a warranty claim. Guess they want to play hard ball. We NEED a MAG/MOSS law here in Ontario.

That was the point I was making. They can win on that. But we know the Amsoil will not do this

 

[RVG RT1]

Hi everyone; I just bought a 2014 RT LTD w/12K mi., I have after 65 years of motorcycle riding switched to the Can Am and love it so far. I have been involved in the oil debates on many motorcycle sites and all are the same (MINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS) when it comes to oil. I have had motorcycles by almost every brand from Vincent, HD, Suzuki, Yamaha, Norton, BSA, Triumph, and a whole lot of Honda's (GL1100A, GL1200A 2ea, GL1500A 2ea, GL1800A and Valkyrie plus many other Honda's. In the last 25-30 years I have used only Diesel oils in my bikes and trucks and cars for the simple reason they make the best oil on the market IMHO. I have ridden over 2 million miles total on my bikes and never ever had an engine problem or a tear down and I rebuild engines as a hobby for many years and restored both motorcycle, Mustangs, and Camaros. I have found Rotella T6 synthetic to give me the best shift quality and quiet running of my bikes. Standard Rotella T for you non-synthetic guys and old loose engines work great. I won't go into all the details why the Diesel oil is the best, but I can tell you it is IMHO. Below I will give you a web site that for anyone that really wants to find out about oil this is it, go to the lower section on diesel oil and you will really understand why I only use Diesel oil. Sorry to be so long winded and will try to hold it down. Bob G. :bowdown:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

 

[Warlock]

Where did you get your law degree ??

In the US, not only do they have to prove that you did something wrong but they also have to make a strong case that what you did CAUSED a failure.
Guesses are not allowed.

YOU lose.

Kinda of a no brainier. If you admit to using a 10w40 oil in a engine with the OEM recommends a 5w40 they will win. No law degree just common sense. I know the 10w40 is a great oil and I use it. But in a law suit anything that isn't following OEM specs. You went on your own knowingly the spec is 5w40 and you pick 10w40. No where in the Can Am book do they say that you can use a 10w40.
David