trikermutha
New member
I always loved a good tire thread. 
opcorn:
opcorn:
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30 psi in frt tires
- Thread starter dsteve931
- Start date
I always loved a good tire thread.
lol....true.
The back-n-forth argument gets too funny at times.
Hey Mike. I am also as you stated...."an expert witness".
I (we) could not testify that we know better then a tire manufacturer, you would be laughed out of a courtroom if you did.
That testimony would only come from a tire manufacturer.
My statement, albeit harsh, was to demonstrate you are not an expert in that field.
PSI means little if the tread is too hard for the weight of the vehicle.
Adding another slight problem, the Spyder is 2000-3000 lighter then a car AND missing a tire.
That missing tire decreases traction and adding a harder tread is adding greatly to traction loss.
I have 20,000+ miles on my Spyder with the same front tires still going strong.
I am not going to mess with what BRP mandates because some random digits on my screen says BRP is wrong.
I am not going to let anyone I know put the wrong tires on anything that might cause them harm without my 2cents mentioned.
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
experts
:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ..... I have a feeling that you had a distant relative who was at " Kitty Hawk " and EXPERTLY remarked ............. that thing will never fly :lecturef_smilie:........:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ..... and PS the world isn't Flat ......and PPS " Butt " theory is as valid as Bar Stool - BS ....... also ....Happy New Year , Mike :thumbup:
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Hypurone
Active member
I was running at 19 on my AZ01's and it handled great but I have some injuries that beg to have lighter/less effort steering and I have moved up to 22psi cold. It still handles great but is soooo much easier to bend into the corners. I do feel it being a little more nervous at warp speed on a rough road but until I heal all the way (Please God, make this day come sooner!) the higher pressure is where it is at for me.
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nslowmotion
New member
Tire tread temperatures
I don't know why I hadn't thought of this earlier. I used to autocross and crew for a road race team. The way we dialed in pressures was by measuring tire temperature with a pyrometer.
You can either buy a probe type pyrometer, or if you have an instant read meat thermometer with a probe, that will also work. There are simple infrared surface thermometers that you can get, but the probe ones IMO work best. Surface temps lose heat too quickly to get a good read. Probes read the temperature inside the tread block, which are more stable without surface cooling playing a factor. Some electrical multimeters come with a temperature probe, too.
Go out on a warm day, and make a good loop with turns or multiple figure eights (equal left & right turns) to warm up the tires. If they feel warm to your bare hand, then there is enough heat to read. Do a few more figure 8's and immediately stop and get some temp readings.
Now, you each may have personal preferences about what pressure works best, and yes overinflating it so that the contact patch gets smaller will increase steering response. But, the optimum grip happens with the full width of the tread on the ground. The way to get that is measuring the tread temperature on the inside, middle, and outside of the tread. You're looking for the tire pressure that results in even temperatures across the tread. Realistically, temps change from the time you make the first reading until you make the last. A spread of 10 degrees C is acceptable. Also, if you make equal numbers of right and left turns, the readings of each tire should be similar. If you make left turns only, the right front is loaded harder and should read higher than the left front tire.
Pressure too high, and the middle temperature reading is the highest. Too low, and the outer edge temperatures are higher than the middle. Assuming you can't adjust camber or toe, playing with tire pressure and tread temperatures might help you dial in your optimum settings.
I don't know why I hadn't thought of this earlier. I used to autocross and crew for a road race team. The way we dialed in pressures was by measuring tire temperature with a pyrometer.
You can either buy a probe type pyrometer, or if you have an instant read meat thermometer with a probe, that will also work. There are simple infrared surface thermometers that you can get, but the probe ones IMO work best. Surface temps lose heat too quickly to get a good read. Probes read the temperature inside the tread block, which are more stable without surface cooling playing a factor. Some electrical multimeters come with a temperature probe, too.
Go out on a warm day, and make a good loop with turns or multiple figure eights (equal left & right turns) to warm up the tires. If they feel warm to your bare hand, then there is enough heat to read. Do a few more figure 8's and immediately stop and get some temp readings.
Now, you each may have personal preferences about what pressure works best, and yes overinflating it so that the contact patch gets smaller will increase steering response. But, the optimum grip happens with the full width of the tread on the ground. The way to get that is measuring the tread temperature on the inside, middle, and outside of the tread. You're looking for the tire pressure that results in even temperatures across the tread. Realistically, temps change from the time you make the first reading until you make the last. A spread of 10 degrees C is acceptable. Also, if you make equal numbers of right and left turns, the readings of each tire should be similar. If you make left turns only, the right front is loaded harder and should read higher than the left front tire.
Pressure too high, and the middle temperature reading is the highest. Too low, and the outer edge temperatures are higher than the middle. Assuming you can't adjust camber or toe, playing with tire pressure and tread temperatures might help you dial in your optimum settings.
tehrlich
New member
I did this very thing recently, and on multiple rides. Measured, measured, measured just as some experts said to do right here on these forums. They claimed that the heat signatures would be, as you said, high in the center at my "very unsafe" high pressures of my Yokohamas. So, I went out and measured by what they suggested. I didn't measure it that way.
I was measuring with the fronts at 26psi and the back at 30psi. The heat measurements were pretty consistent across the surface and corners. The rear tire heats up much more than the fronts.
Fat Baxter
Member
I have a 2014 RT-S, and I apparently had a set of the crappy Kendas all around. My rear lasted about 6500 miles; I replaced it with a General Altimax.
At 12,000 miles, I got tired of the twitchy front tires (still had lots of tread left) and replaced them with Kumho Solus KH16s. The difference in handling was DRAMATIC! The front end was vastly more stable and felt more planted in the curves. No more jiggling nervously down the road. Kenda had a run of bad front tires back then (separating belts; out-of-round; etc). I figured that's what my problem was. That's one reason Kendas have such a bad rep in this forum.
Yes, I hear that the current generation of Kendas is much improved. But my General will still last longer than the new Kenda rear tires, by perhaps double the mileage. How frequently do you want to pay the dealer $$$ to mount a new rear tire?
And FWIW, I run 18 psi in the front and 24 in the rear.
At 12,000 miles, I got tired of the twitchy front tires (still had lots of tread left) and replaced them with Kumho Solus KH16s. The difference in handling was DRAMATIC! The front end was vastly more stable and felt more planted in the curves. No more jiggling nervously down the road. Kenda had a run of bad front tires back then (separating belts; out-of-round; etc). I figured that's what my problem was. That's one reason Kendas have such a bad rep in this forum.
Yes, I hear that the current generation of Kendas is much improved. But my General will still last longer than the new Kenda rear tires, by perhaps double the mileage. How frequently do you want to pay the dealer $$$ to mount a new rear tire?
And FWIW, I run 18 psi in the front and 24 in the rear.
tehrlich
New member
I think BRP has the crappy Kendas on them because a Spyder is technically a "motorcycle." Motorcycles cannot have "automobile" tires on them. Basically a CYA.
The Kendas are functional. They roll, and propel forward with left and right turning. They also are able to stop.
Car tires do all of that and turn our Spyders into thoroughbreds.
The Kendas are functional. They roll, and propel forward with left and right turning. They also are able to stop.
Car tires do all of that and turn our Spyders into thoroughbreds.
I would assume the rear tire to heat up more than the fronts. The rear is loaded more heavily with rider and passenger, and does the main job of pushing the Spyder. Also the fronts are out in the breeze while the rear is "hidden" behind the mass of the Spyder and receives the engine / exhaust header heat.
Fat Baxter
Member
The story I read somewhere was that, when the Spyder was in development, BRP released a request to tire manufacturers to provide OEM tires. The only response they got back was from Kenda, known more for making tires for utility vehicles (off-road quads; forklifts; wheelbarrows; small trailers). I think, at the time, they also had some experience making low-end tires for the western Pacific region (itty bitty cars).
Everyone else likely concluded this was a niche market requiring non-standard sizes, hence not worth the investment. So BRP was stuck with Kenda. If BRP had designed the Spyder to use some slightly larger tires, more in line with what the larger manufacturers already produced, we might not have this problem.
tehrlich
New member
That would make sense for the initial start of the Spyder line, but there are many tires in our sizes. Why has BRP not worked new contracts with real tire manufacturers by now? Heck, the big "rumor" of the 10th anniversary announcement was a new tire option. But, alas, it was a Trans Am paint job. (Which I like!
)trikermutha
New member
I hear you on easier but found it a bit squirrely and hasher ride at 22. Heal safe :thumbup:
Easy Rider
New member
For me, this tells the whole story.
When you have no more facts or solid opinions to add to the discussion, you revert to insults and diversions.
It really accomplishes nothing useful and makes you look really bad.
AND.....puts everything you said earlier in the thread into question, even if it was the truth.
Mazo EMS2
Active member
When we first got our first Spyder, I tried the front tires at about 30 psi for a while. I found it to "bounce" and be a bit twitchy and harsh at hwy speeds. It makes sense though....the harder the tire, the more bounce and less road contact. So.....I slowly decreased pressure and have found that 21 psi works well for us. We ride two up most of the time. As for the rear tire, I've kept it at 28 psi the whole time. It's all about what works for YOU.
tehrlich
New member
no, no, no.. You don't get it.
There's no scientific way you could have a valid opinion because you've not testified for tens of dollars in court cases. The fact that you've ridden motorcycles, or driven cars, or ridden bicycles for years does not mean you understand any dynamics of an inflated rubber tube rolling on the ground. The "butt feel" you are experiencing is not real. It is unreliable. It tells you nothing, absolutely nothing. Do not even think for a second that your observations matter either. They can't be because you must take a couple of on-the-job classes for it.
The only acceptable tire pressure is what others ridicule you into accepting. Do it their way, or you will be mocked on Spyderlovers with emoji abuse.
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