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2017 F3T fishtailing when hard braking - Is this normal?

Tazzel

New member
My F3S did not fishtail when hard braking but my 2017 F3T rear does. Is this normal? Is it the added weight in the rear on the F3T? I can handle it because I expect it now with anything but a soft brake. I will report it to dealer when I have my 3k checkup but was wondering if anyone else feels this on their F3T.
 
FISH-TAILING

My F3S did not fishtail when hard braking but my 2017 F3T rear does. Is this normal? Is it the added weight in the rear on the F3T? I can handle it because I expect it now with anything but a soft brake. I will report it to dealer when I have my 3k checkup but was wondering if anyone else feels this on their F3T.
.. Since the Spyder has " ABS " which prevents the wheels from locking-up..... and the " VSS " which has some control over fishtailing ....... I'm perplexed how yours is doing it ..:dontknow:.... Mike :thumbup:
 
Interesting. ...🤔

could it be the rear shock giving the sensation of fishtailing..? What tire/ and pressure do you have on the rear...? :agree: powering up I can see it my RS will do it all day , quick manuver over the median line will send the back end jiggling but hard braking I don't get as the fronts take the brunt of the braking . Not to say it is not happening to you but would love to hear what you find or if others have had this occur...:dontknow:
 
Tazzel, I'd guess that there is something significantly wrong with your Spyder's Nanny, its brakes, &/or its tires!! :shocked: There also might be an issue with your suspension, Power Steering &/or wheel alignment, but that shouldn't be the cause of you problem so much as just making it harder for the on-board systems to counter!

If the Vehicle Stability System (VSS), Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), & Electronic Brake Distribution System (EBD) are all working properly & your tires are behaving the way properly constructed & designed tires should, then you WILL NOT get any fish-tailing while braking, no matter how hard you brake, cos those systems & the tires are all designed & tested to work well together to stop just that sort of thing!! Dodgy steering input via an out of whack Dynamic Power Steering System or poor wheel alignment might make it harder for the other systems to keep it all under control, but the systems have all been designed to manage their job correctly despite a fair degree of poor inputs from any of those, like a blown tire, broken pwr steer, etc.... :dontknow:

So I reckon you've got something wrong with one or more of those things mentioned above, & your Dealer is probably the first place you need to see to get this sorted. In the meantime, your Spyder probably isn't safe to ride at all!! A significant failure in any or all of those systems/components could result in an uncontrollable accident, & until you know what it is & to what degree your Spyder's control systems are comprimised, you probably shouldn't ryde it!! :lecturef_smilie:

Ps: if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas, there are SERIOUS doubts amongst many in the Spyder Ryding community about their manufacturing quality & many of the 'sub-standard construction features that I've seen in them could well be the primary cause of your issues and any accident that might result. If it isn't rapidly clear that one of those other systems is the cause of your issues, you might want to seriously look at throwing the OE Kendas away & fitting a better quality car tire & running it at the correct pressure for the load your Spyder places upon it!! That pressure will likely be somewhat lower than the recomnended pressures for the OE Kendas, which are lightly constructed soft compound tires that require higher pressures to enable them to work as intended, but those lower pressures should be well within the capacity of the car tire to manage safely & work well! ;)

Good Luck! :thumbup:
 
Depending on the speed, my 2014 RTS will also do a quick zigzag if I lock them up. That got my attention the first time. I disagree that the front brakes take the main force. At 18K I replaced the back brake pads and BajaRon said don't worry about the front ones. I checked them and he was right very little wear on them. ABS IMO just keeps them from locking, not sure it spreads the braking force.
 
BRAKING & FISH-TAILING !!

Depending on the speed, my 2014 RTS will also do a quick zigzag if I lock them up. That got my attention the first time. I disagree that the front brakes take the main force. At 18K I replaced the back brake pads and BajaRon said don't worry about the front ones. I checked them and he was right very little wear on them. ABS IMO just keeps them from locking, not sure it spreads the braking force.
Bill, Bill, Bill :lecturef_smilie:... # 1... your Spyder can't lock-up the wheels , if it is something is wrong, ,.... #2. the front wheels - absolutely take the main braking force, during a panic type stop when the brakes are applied fully and fast , don't you notice that the spyder - nose dives .... I know mine does ...... #3. the reason the front pads don't wear as fast is because there are ....FOUR ... front pads....... PS Your first sentence says you " lock them " your last sentence " they don't " :dontknow: ........... Mike :thumbup:
 
Bill, Bill, Bill :lecturef_smilie:... # 1... your Spyder can't lock-up the wheels , if it is something is wrong, ,.... #2. the front wheels - absolutely take the main braking force, during a panic type stop when the brakes are applied fully and fast , don't you notice that the spyder - nose dives .... I know mine does ...... #3. the reason the front pads don't wear as fast is because there are ....FOUR ... front pads....... PS Your first sentence says you " lock them " your last sentence " they don't " :dontknow: ........... Mike :thumbup:


You right, I used the wrong semantics, when I slam on the brakes, in my mind I am locking them up, as we use to before ABS. I know that the tires don't actually lock up. The 4 brake pads makes sense, thanks for clearing that up. BUT right or wrong, the few times that I have slammed on the brakes, the bike seems to do a bit of a zigzag before it stops. Nothing that you can't control, or I am worried about. I would agree with Peter, that if it is an actual fishtail that we use to be able to accomplish when we were braindead and young/stupid then I'd get everything checked and hopefully you have a dealer that knows something.
 
Since the 3 wheel ABS is pretty sophisticated and wants each wheel to turn or stop

My F3S did not fishtail when hard braking but my 2017 F3T rear does. Is this normal? Is it the added weight in the rear on the F3T? I can handle it because I expect it now with anything but a soft brake. I will report it to dealer when I have my 3k checkup but was wondering if anyone else feels this on their F3T.


Tazz, I would check first to see if your tires pressures in the fronts are EXactly equal. BRP recommends that they be within 0.5 psi of each other, and the contact area and stopping characteristics are very dependant on having very close to equal pressures in them. Of course there is also the possibility of some tire defect, or issue with the ABS system, but balancing the front tire pressures is pretty easy to start with. Just a thought.
 
Two wheels, three wheels, four wheels, it doesn't matter. The laws of physics and weight transfer result in front brakes doing the lions share of the work. If they didn't the vehicles' stopping distances, at any speed, would be substantially greater, potentially fatally greater than they are as presently designed.
 
Exactly, and since the fronts handle the majority of the braking forces, if one side

Two wheels, three wheels, four wheels, it doesn't matter. The laws of physics and weight transfer result in front brakes doing the lions share of the work. If they didn't the vehicles' stopping distances, at any speed, would be substantially greater, potentially fatally greater than they are as presently designed.

If one side or the others braking force, contact area or VSS or brake fluid distribution is greater than the other, it can cause a back and forth correction that might throw the rear end around. IMO
 
I just Traded my 2015 F3S for the 2017 F3T and only have 500 miles so far. I am not sure if it is actually fishtailing but the sensation is there. I will be checking tire pressure but it sounds like a trip to the Dealership is fast approaching just to have it check over. I just wanted to know if anyone else had this issue or sensation that has a F3T or possible an F3LTD. Does not sound like anyone else has it so need to have it checked out.
 
If one side or the others braking force, contact area or VSS or brake fluid distribution is greater than the other, it can cause a back and forth correction that might throw the rear end around. IMO

The VSS and ABS should, I would think, compensate for the concerns you express. That's why, if there is a decided fishtail as the OP says a trip to the dealer is definitely in order.
 
So I called my dealer to book an appointment while I was still at work yesterday. He said he had never heard of fish tailing on any Spyder and as everyone else suggested in the forum, to check Air pressure all around. When I got home I found that the left front was at 11psi and the right 13psi and the rear at 25.5

Dealer said the correct settings were 23 for the front and 26 for the rear. I told him that seemed out of line according to the Forum with the preferred settings at 18 for the front and 30 for the rear. He said that recently BRP had bumped the fronts to 23 and for tire ware and grip to keep the rear at around 26.

I am embarrassed to say I had not checked the air pressure. This is not my first rodeo. This is my 3 Spyder and I am well versed in Spyder protocol but I had just picked it up from the dealer and I would not have expected the tire pressure to be so out of speck. Its been raining in Colorado for the past 3 days so I am waiting to take a ride to see if getting the tire pressure up will solve the fish tailing. I will keep you posted.

Dealer said to bring it in if nothing improves.
 
23 and 26 are what we try to run

Our dealership sets our tires to that every time we go in, and we try to keep them around those pressures between visits. We haven't had any issues with the tires. Hope your issue was just the pressure.
 
23 for the front seems high to me???? I've just gotten a FOBO system, so checked my operator's manual for the recommended pressures and it said 15 =/-2 (for a 2016 F3-T).

That seems a bit low for me so I shoot for 18 psi. Might be different for a 2017?
 
23 for the front seems high to me???? I've just gotten a FOBO system, so checked my operator's manual for the recommended pressures and it said 15 =/-2 (for a 2016 F3-T).

That seems a bit low for me so I shoot for 18 psi. Might be different for a 2017?

ours are both 2015 F3's. if you read up in this thread you'll see that BRP recently changed their recommendations. We've been running the 23/26 for the entire time we've had the F3's.
 
Thanks Tazzel for the followup on your 17 F3 fishtail

"found that the left front was at 11psi and the right 13psi and the rear at 25.5"

I was surprised to read in the manual for wifes 16 F3T that the recommended front pressures were 15 psi +/-2 psi and the rear was 28 I think still since I had been groomed on the 18 psi fronts and 28 psi rear pressure from the RTs. Now if BRP and Dave at RPM is saying 23 for the fronts, I may have to re-eval my choices for pressures. For now my wifes pressures on her F3 are at 16 in the front and close to 26 for the rear at 80 degree ambient temps. Yes it has been rainy here in CO this summer...DSCN2159.jpg

Let us know if balancing the pressures helps with the fishtailing issue, or if further work is needed at the dealer.
 
ours are both 2015 F3's. if you read up in this thread you'll see that BRP recently changed their recommendations. We've been running the 23/26 for the entire time we've had the F3's.

Hmmm.....I wasn't aware of that. Would you have a link to that announcement from BRP? Right now, the ryde feels pretty good at the pressures I'm at. How would increasing the pressure to 23 (an approx. 25% increase) affect the ryde?

Thanks!
 
23 for the front seems high to me???? I've just gotten a FOBO system, so checked my operator's manual for the recommended pressures and it said 15 =/-2 (for a 2016 F3-T).

That seems a bit low for me so I shoot for 18 psi. Might be different for a 2017?

The manual for my 17 F3T still says 15 +/- 2
 
My F3S did not fishtail when hard braking but my 2017 F3T rear does. Is this normal? Is it the added weight in the rear on the F3T? I can handle it because I expect it now with anything but a soft brake. I will report it to dealer when I have my 3k checkup but was wondering if anyone else feels this on their F3T.

Did you put any air in the rear air bag?
 
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