1330 OIL REPORT

[ulflyer]

I hope the lab didn't lose my oil sample. It was only going one state over. Maybe tomorrow......

Doc, I've had them take up to two weeks, but usually its much quicker. Should have it sometime this week...hopefully.

In case you don't have this, here is a viscosity chart for you:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Awesome! Thanks!

 

[Bill_1]

Amsoil

From the report you should be fine as it looks like a quality oil :2thumbs:

Amsoil is not a full synthetic it is 100% synthetic.Does anyone in really know the difference between the full and the 100%?

 

[Bill_1]

SYNTHETIC OIL MYTHS

Myth: Once you switch to synthetic oil you can never switch back. This is one of the most persistent myths about synthetic oil—and completely untrue. You can switch back and forth at any time. In fact, synthetic blends are simply a mixture of synthetic and conventional oils. It is advisable that you use the same oil for top-ups if needed, thereby giving you the best protection from the oil that you have chosen.
Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle. The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not. Again, completely untrue. Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines.
Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil before you start using synthetic oil. Again, there’s no manufacturer we’re aware of that makes this recommendation. Mercedes, Porsche, Corvette, some Cadillacs, Volkswagen, Hyundai and many other manufacturers’ cars come from the factory with synthetic oil.
Myth: Using a synthetic oil voids a car’s warranty. Untrue. The only engines that specifically exclude the use of a synthetic motor oil are some Mazda rotary engines.
Myth: Synthetics made from Group III base oils are not true synthetics and are not as good as PAO-based synthetics in Group IV. Again, untrue. Synthetics made from Group III oil can, in some cases, outperform those made in Group IV oils in some areas of performance.

Maybe some one has learned something from your post..

 

[Bill_1]

Mobil 1 vs. AMSOIL Independent ASTM Certified Laboratory Testing

Mobil 1 vs. AMSOIL
Independent ASTM Certified Laboratory Testing of the new Mobil 1 Extended Performance vs. AMSOIL (and nine other major brand name motor oils) has been completed. AMSOIL is the clear winner.


Mobil 1 EP Evaporates 38% Faster Than AMSOIL, Mobil 1 EP Allows 18% More
Cold Start Friction and Mobil 1 EP Allows 22% MORE Wear


In addition, on the TFOUT test, the "Thin Film Oxygen Uptake Test" (ASTM D-
4742), which provides a very good correlation to the drain interval
capability of an oil, AMSOIL passed the 500 minute cut-off mark with flying
colors and still going strong, while Mobil 1 fell
short at only 469 minutes. Once again, we say that Mobil 1 is a good
quality product, however it does not compare to AMSOIL and the test data
clearly shows this.

 

[Highwayman2013]

It would be nice to find out who did these tests. I'm still using the BRP oil in my 2012.

 

[PW2013STL]

A while back it was generally accepted that Castrol was the supplier and that the summer BLEND was a 10-40 and the winter SYNTHETIC was a 5-40.

Castrol is one of the few that make a motorcycle synthetic in 5-40. However, not long ago when I mentioned the above, someone (forget who) corrected me and said BRP had changed their supplier a couple years ago. Thats why I mentioned Bel Ray above.

How long ago was it that you saw the pallet of Castrol?

Do I believe BRP makes their own oil? Absolutely not!
Do I believe they spent a million or so developing it? Absolutely not...marketing hype is the name of the game.

How will we know how good their Blended oil is? When DocHumprey gets his lab report back, that will go a long way to tell us what the quality is. If it comes back showing the viscosity is still 40W or near that, I'll post an apology to everyone and beg BRP's forgiveness for doubting them!

Furthermore, I'll provide a prepaid test kit to anyone who does their own oil changes and has 9000 miles on the Blend if they will send it in and post the results here.

You'll need to get the sample immediately when it starts draining (not out of the drain container as that would be contaminated), or preferably siphon some out with a clean hose.

Any takers?

PS: I'm not knocking BRP oil. I'm saying that I firmly believe that NO approved motorcycle oil, whether its Blended, full synthetic, or Dino, will make it to 4000 miles maintaining its viscosity of 40W in either the 998 or 1330 motor.

In answer to your question -

I started this thread about the results of BRP's blended oil after 6000 miles. Every thing looked good, but it sheared DOWN TO 20w.

It did not hold it's 40w rating!

In one week I will be changing my oil again and sending in a sample of Mobil 1 10-40 full synthetic that will also have 6000 miles on it to be tested. I will report the results when I receive that report back.

At this oil change I will be trying the BRP full synthetic 0-40w oil and will do the same in 6000 miles. The results of this one will not happen until next year as winter is fast approaching.

The reason I am doing this is to find the best oil for me to use.

I am very interested in hearing Doc's results as well.

 

[PW2013STL]

I hope the lab didn't lose my oil sample. It was only going one state over. Maybe tomorrow......

Doc what lab are you using? I used Blackstone.

 

[PW2013STL]

So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of :cus:?

5800 miles on full synthetic with out any issues and yesterday I purchased BRP's full synthetic from the lead Spyder tech at the dealer and he sure did not give me any BS about it not working with the clutch.

Short answer to your question is - Yes it is a bunch of :cus:

 

[Bill_1]

Amsoil !00% Synthetic Oil & Filters

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda®, Kawasaki®, Yamaha®, Suzuki®, BMW®, Husqvarna®, Victory® and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.
Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I got the kit from Napa. In the container there were 3-4 different addresses that you could use to ship to. I figured that the lab in Ohio would be the closest, so the report would come back quicker. Still waiting...... The actual name of the lab is down at the shop. I'll post it tomorrow. They need to hurry up!

 

[Highwayman2013]

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda[emoji768], Kawasaki[emoji768], Yamaha[emoji768], Suzuki[emoji768], BMW[emoji768], Husqvarna[emoji768], Victory[emoji768] and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.
Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.View attachment 96780

Starting to look like an ad.

 

[PW2013STL]

Starting to look like an ad.

IT IS!

Look at all his posts

 

[BajaRon]

Amsoil is not a full synthetic it is 100% synthetic.Does anyone in really know the difference between the full and the 100%?

Not sure if your question is straight up or rhetorical. I'll treat it as the former.

After the Castrol vs Mobil 1 lawsuit decision, this has become a very murky subject.

Before the lawsuit an oil had to be specifically 'Engineered' at the refining stage to be called 'Synthetic', which Mobil 1 (and a few others) were.

Castrol started taking standard, Type III mineral based oil and combining it with an additive package. Kind of like taking standard oil and adding Slick 50 or STP to it. A bit crude but it gets the general point across. Castrol marketed this product as 'Synthetic'. Since this required a less expensive production process, Castrol was able to sell this oil for less than the True Synthetics like Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc.

So, Mobil 1 sued Castrol for misleading marketing and false advertising. At the time everyone thought it was a slam dunk for Mobil 1 since it was considered ridiculous that a non-synthetic oil could be marketed as 'Synthetic'. But, to the surprise of many, Castrol prevailed. So now you have 2 very different oils both being marketed as 'Synthetic'. Very confusing. This is only legal in the US. No other country allows a Castrol like product to be marked as 'Synthetic'.

The quality of what I call Doctored Dyno Oil depends on the additive package which is designed to protect the inferior Type III mineral oil because it breaks down too quickly. When the additive package goes away, so does your lubrication. Some additive packages are very good. Others are not. But they will all be sold as 'Synthetic'.

Since engineered synthetic oils like Mobil 1 and Amsoil are much stronger, they need little or no additives or modifiers.

All of today's modern oils are light years ahead of lubricants from the past. And a good thing too because the stress placed on lubricants from today's power plants is much greater than in the past. Most any 'Synthetic' oil will do a good job regardless of which method of production is used as long as you change it frequently enough.

Typically, a Type IV, engineered synthetic will out last and out lubricate a Type III additive package synthetic oil.

 

[jcthorne]

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.

The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.

 

[Highwayman2013]

IT IS!

Look at all his posts

He should sign up as a sponsor.

 

[BajaRon]

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

True.

Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs.

True.

The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.

True.

Not attempting to be the final word in any oil conversation as there are a lot of details in all of this. And things are changing all the time. Just saying that my research agrees with yours.

I did, admittedly, paint with a broad brush in my post. Results can buck the trend on a product by product basis.

Good post!

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

THIS IS GOOD NEWS

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.

The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.

:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike :thumbup:

I use it in everything we own EXCEPT our 2013 Spyders. Lab results always great. Still unsure about its use on the older Spyders with the centrifugal clutch. Not enough data either way and its a small amount of oil in the overall scheme of things. We will stick with the Valvoline Motorcycle Synthetic there for now. In your 1330, I don't think you could pick a better oil. It will stand up to shear as well as any out there. Diesels are tough on oils and contain as many gears as your transmission and under much higher load to shear the oil. Its nothing new in that market. There are other good oils out there too, but its nice to be able to stock ONE and use it in most everything. Lawn mowers to my GT and everything in between......

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc what lab are you using? I used Blackstone.

Napa couldn't tell me the name (yet) and I cannot find my paperwork. I may be out that $15. I sent a request in to Blackstone for a container. May have to send in the sample I have in the bike now. Oil and filter will need changed within 1200 miles. Soon after Spyder in the Smokies I will do so.