Internet Explorer 10 question...

[pro10is]

When I first looked at the data you showed above, my experience with my customer base made me suspect the accuracy of what you posted. I know that Chrome has surpassed IE Worldwide, but I haven't seen that in my practical experience. And even Worldwide, I suspected that the gap was much closer than you represented.

Since I didn't see a source for your data, I did my own search. I actually found your data source and a few others. I'll present all of those below. I don't disagree with you that Chrome is a more user friendly browser. However, it is still true that many applications,,, that are business related,,, still rely on IE9, and perhaps even older versions of IE to be fully functional. It may not be what is ideal, but it is a fact. Heck, even the Federal Reserve wire application was DOS based until a few short years ago. It takes the business world a bit longer to utilize the latest and greatest because the ramifications of loss due to a platform change is much more substantial. Again, I am not an IE fan, I am just presenting what I know to be a fact in the area of business that I specialize in.

Your data was sourced from: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp The following disclaimer could be found just below your uncited source.

View attachment 70942

So I continued my search a bit further and here is a source that is a little less progressive and I think a bit more accurate. It still shows Chrome as the Worldwide leader. http://www.sitepoint.com/browser-trends-march-2013/

View attachment 70943


To continue, I wanted to see if another source would support the conclusion and it did. Chrome has a Worldwide lead in the range of 37% to IE of 30%. However, further parsing of the dataset shows that IE is still the dominant browser in the United States, irregardless of business versus consumer. The United States is where I do business as a small Community Bank.

See below (1) the Worldwide Stats then (2) breakdown of how each browser is used by world region.
If the graph doesn't show clearly, Green is Chrome, and Blue is IE.
Source: http://gs.statcounter.com/

View attachment 70944
View attachment 70945


So, statistics can be misleading and we shouldn't rely upon the first thing we come across.

In my business, I rely on what is actually happening in my own customer base. So I will present that below. I think you will see that predictions of impending doom and my customers leaving me in their rear-view mirror may be a bit premature. Please note that the graph below represents the entire universe of visits to our site. Business owners, who (unfortunately) are required to use IE9 only make up a small percentage of this total universe. The overwhelming number of usage on our site is from the Consumer Customer base, which by the way is not limited to IE. So the numbers accurately reflect what is "real" in my business.

View attachment 70946


I am confident that you are a brilliant programmer and that you absolutely know your business in writing complex applications. But I also know what is going on in my own customer base. Chrome will eventually be fully functional in the Business applications we use. Being a small community bank, we outsource those to a very large 3rd party provider. But the reality is that in many business applications,,, change to the latest and greatest,,, comes at a much slower pace due to the potential for financial impact. Consumer based apps move much more quickly.

Lastly, I would say that the choice of browser is far less important to the hard-core business customer than you might suspect. What is important to them is that they are able to pay their 300 employees accurately and timely. If the business loses their payroll administrator, and I then personally drive to the business to help their new employee process and submit that payroll, then I have just earned that customers respect and gratitude that won't be lightly tossed aside because they can't use Google Chrome. :thumbup:

Sigh. I really don't want to get into this with you but you keep coming at me so now I have to respond. Everyone else please forgive me and go ahead and skip this post if you're already weary of technological mumbo jumbo and browser wars.

I say this with absolutely no malice intended, so please don't take it the wrong way: You are in serious technological denial. You've done all this research just to try to deny my assertion that Internet Explorer is rapidly on its way out? It's not me or anyone else on this forum you should be worried about, it's your business and your customers you need to think of. When it comes to the internet you must never focus your business model on what was or even so much on what is, you must always focus on what is coming so you can plan ahead and be ready. If you don't you'll always be one giant leap behind your competition. If you had done this your current application would already be working with Chrome which, by even the stats you yourself supplied above, is already the world's leading browser. If my bank tried to force me to use an already outdated version of the worst browser in order to access my obviously vital financial records I would immediately close my all accounts and find a bank that wasn't so restrictive and behind the times. I wouldn't keep my life's savings in any bank that I even remotely suspected was technologically inept. Your business's web application is its store window to the online world, it's how everyone online perceives your business vitality and decides if they want to do business with you. This is especially true when deciding to trust a business to hold, conduct transactions, and keep safe one's money. You're honestly telling me that you're comfortable with the fact that the first thing you tell your customers (who have to call in to complain that your web app doesn't work) is that they must use a down level version of a browser they've already abandoned and do not wish to use, because it's the only one that'll work with your application?? Wow. Again, with no malice intended, you seriously need to rethink this through. Do not let any shortsightedness and possible inaptitude of your 3rd party software provider become your business's problem. As a software engineer I'm telling you that there is no technological reason why any web application cannot be made to run on all browsers. This is called cross browser compatibility and it should be in the top 3 requirements you spec to your application designer. If they can't guarantee cross browser compatibility you do not want to do business with them.

Look, I was just trying to tell a few good folks here not to waste their valuable time using an outdated, poorly performing, incompatible, dying browser. I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your business. But if you continue to try to make a case why I'm wrong or didn't state accurate facts, or why they, or anyone else should continue to use IE, I just have to speak up because it's one of my areas of expertise and I can't let bad advice lie. So if you don't like my advice that's ok, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Please.

 

[wyliec]

I decided to try Chrome before going back to IE9. However, I found Chrome to be much quicker on the internet when going from one site to another and even within a site, which was actually the way it was even prior to IE10.:dontknow:

 

[darkduck]

Sigh. I really don't want to get into this with you but you keep coming at me so now I have to respond. Everyone else please forgive me and go ahead and skip this post if you're already weary of technological mumbo jumbo and browser wars.

I say this with absolutely no malice intended, so please don't take it the wrong way: You are in serious technological denial. You've done all this research just to try to deny my assertion that Internet Explorer is rapidly on its way out? It's not me or anyone else on this forum you should be worried about, it's your business and your customers you need to think of. When it comes to the internet you must never focus your business model on what was or even so much on what is, you must always focus on what is coming so you can plan ahead and be ready. If you don't you'll always be one giant leap behind your competition. If you had done this your current application would already be working with Chrome which, by even the stats you yourself supplied above, is already the world's leading browser. If my bank tried to force me to use an already outdated version of the worst browser in order to access my obviously vital financial records I would immediately close my all accounts and find a bank that wasn't so restrictive and behind the times. I wouldn't keep my life's savings in any bank that I even remotely suspected was technologically inept. Your business's web application is its store window to the online world, it's how everyone online perceives your business vitality and decides if they want to do business with you. This is especially true when deciding to trust a business to hold, conduct transactions, and keep safe one's money. You're honestly telling me that you're comfortable with the fact that the first thing you tell your customers (who have to call in to complain that your web app doesn't work) is that they must use a down level version of a browser they've already abandoned and do not wish to use, because it's the only one that'll work with your application?? Wow. Again, with no malice intended, you seriously need to rethink this through. Do not let any shortsightedness and possible inaptitude of your 3rd party software provider become your business's problem. As a software engineer I'm telling you that there is no technological reason why any web application cannot be made to run on all browsers. This is called cross browser compatibility and it should be in the top 3 requirements you spec to your application designer. If they can't guarantee cross browser compatibility you do not want to do business with them.

Look, I was just trying to tell a few good folks here not to waste their valuable time using an outdated, poorly performing, incompatible, dying browser. I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your business. But if you continue to try to make a case why I'm wrong or didn't state accurate facts, or why they, or anyone else should continue to use IE, I just have to speak up because it's one of my areas of expertise and I can't let bad advice lie. So if you don't like my advice that's ok, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Please.

pro10is,


I'm sorry my friend, I do intend to be antagonistic. You are thinking crazy if you think that IE is on it's way out. I've been
a professional developer for years and keep up with all of the current standards and do make my applications compatible with
IE, Chrome, and Firefox however I only support back to IE 7 which is well enough. Now while working for an international aviation company
I figured out real quick that some of the largest aviation manufacturers would only support IE6 and no further do to the fact that they had
custom software that has worked just fine for years and can only run on IE6. If they were to jump up to chrome or IE10 then that would cost
millions of dollars and probably years of development. So with that being said, I'm pretty sure that you have never work in a professional
enterprise setting and truly don't understand how large corporations run and have to stay on older systems for now. One final note if IE was going out
then why in the hell are they now going to support WebGL and HTML5(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/bg182636(v=vs.85).aspx). I would guess
because they are going to shut it down.

-- DarkDuck

 

[Firefly]

BROWSER FIGHT !!!!!! :roflblack:

----------------------------

I have tools in my toolbox from various makers... they all work well and depending on the project I may select a certain tool over another.

IE will be around for years to come, but will continue to lose market share unless they really get their act together. Microsoft runs hot and cold with OS versions and browser versions. Some are great... some suck. We still run XP pro on many machines because of how great it is. Hated Vista so didn't run it. Don't care for Windows 8 so I stick with Windows 7 most the time.

Hell, I still run some DOS apps every day because they're fast, accurate and no Windows version has come close to the ease of use.

If the Windows phones and tablets do well, you will see IE perhaps even gain some market share.

I still avoid it like the plague, but to each their own. If you're in development, you'd have to be nuts to drop support for IE.

 

[Firefly]

Another point..... BING. No... not Bob's BING!..... but the search engine. I've hated it from day one.... refused to go back and see how it's doing. Well, many tech people I know are now moving towards using it rather than Google.... so I wouldn't count MS as down and out anytime soon.

 

[SteveMac]

Sigh. I really don't want to get into this with you but you keep coming at me so now I have to respond. Everyone else please forgive me and go ahead and skip this post if you're already weary of technological mumbo jumbo and browser wars.

I say this with absolutely no malice intended, so please don't take it the wrong way: You are in serious technological denial. You've done all this research just to try to deny my assertion that Internet Explorer is rapidly on its way out? It's not me or anyone else on this forum you should be worried about, it's your business and your customers you need to think of. When it comes to the internet you must never focus your business model on what was or even so much on what is, you must always focus on what is coming so you can plan ahead and be ready. If you don't you'll always be one giant leap behind your competition. If you had done this your current application would already be working with Chrome which, by even the stats you yourself supplied above, is already the world's leading browser. If my bank tried to force me to use an already outdated version of the worst browser in order to access my obviously vital financial records I would immediately close my all accounts and find a bank that wasn't so restrictive and behind the times. I wouldn't keep my life's savings in any bank that I even remotely suspected was technologically inept. Your business's web application is its store window to the online world, it's how everyone online perceives your business vitality and decides if they want to do business with you. This is especially true when deciding to trust a business to hold, conduct transactions, and keep safe one's money. You're honestly telling me that you're comfortable with the fact that the first thing you tell your customers (who have to call in to complain that your web app doesn't work) is that they must use a down level version of a browser they've already abandoned and do not wish to use, because it's the only one that'll work with your application?? Wow. Again, with no malice intended, you seriously need to rethink this through. Do not let any shortsightedness and possible inaptitude of your 3rd party software provider become your business's problem. As a software engineer I'm telling you that there is no technological reason why any web application cannot be made to run on all browsers. This is called cross browser compatibility and it should be in the top 3 requirements you spec to your application designer. If they can't guarantee cross browser compatibility you do not want to do business with them.

Look, I was just trying to tell a few good folks here not to waste their valuable time using an outdated, poorly performing, incompatible, dying browser. I certainly don't want to tell you how to run your business. But if you continue to try to make a case why I'm wrong or didn't state accurate facts, or why they, or anyone else should continue to use IE, I just have to speak up because it's one of my areas of expertise and I can't let bad advice lie. So if you don't like my advice that's ok, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Please.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


Wow. I don’t even know where to begin.

You assert that I keep coming at you, when you first quoted me.:dontknow:...Uh Yeah.

I guess since I didn’t just immediately cower down and let you have the last word, then that classifies me as coming at you. So be it. I’m sorry you feel that way. You can have the last word after this.

I have agreed with you on several occasions that Chrome is a better browser. So I am not trying to steer anyone into antiquated technology. I was simply trying to help Wyliec with a browsing solution. God, I wish that I hadn’t now.

As for me “doing all this research”...
Yep. I did a Google search (ironic) for “Browser Usage Statistics”. Probably the exact same search you did. Anyone here can do it as a test. The first site in the search result was the very one that you selected data from. The next two were the ones I cited. I’d say that search took about 5 minutes to compile the data, or 4.5 minutes longer than it took you.

I am sorry if I embarrassed you by pointing out your flawed data source, but you were misrepresenting the facts to enforce your point. That is totally on you and not me. You should have chosen your supporting data with more care and thought, just as you should go back and re-read this entire thread with more care and thought. You will see that we agree on what is a better browser, but we disagree on what is still being used in many industries.
WOW that is a major point of contention, and beyond me why it is even a debate. :shocked:

I am really not sure why you refuse to accept that there are still many business applications that are reliant upon older versions of IE, but there simply are. I don’t promote that, I don’t like it, but it is a fact. I can’t do anything further to help you understand that. Others above have said the same thing is true in their industry.

I have actually spoken to a friend about this very issue and I complained about our reliance on IE9 for some business applications. He works at a “major airline manufacturer” and he told me that they still have internally built web-based apps that require IE6. But, I suppose he is lying to me. Also, as I have mentioned there are many apps we use with the Federal Reserve that are only functional in older versions of IE. So, if you wouldn’t bank with us because of IE9,,,,,,,,, then I suggest you don’t fly on any airline, use any bank, oh and forgoe cash too!

You say you wouldn’t put your life savings in my bank. OK (thank goodness!).
But, as a consumer, you would have NO issue at my bank. All major browsers are supported. However, there are some cash management programs, for business customers, which are only fully functional in IE9. True at my bank and ((trust me)), true at many others.

For the life of me, I don’t know why you aren’t able to distinguish between what I am saying is the current real-world status for many businesses versus what ((I think we agree on)) you and I would both like to see in an ideal world.

You seem to think I am challenging you about which browser is best. Not so. Nor am I in “technological denial”. I have only related what I see in the working world. Shame on me. pps:

Early on in this thread, I simply stated that unfortunately IE is still the standard for many (not all) business applications.
You began this whole debate by quoting me and challenging that statement. So I countered with why I felt that was true. But somehow you have determined that I keep coming at you. :banghead:

I agree Chrome is a better browser, I don’t agree that IE is dying. I understand that you may be a hater of Microsoft, and that is cool, but I don’t agree that IE is dying. IE is still the browser that is standard on PC purchases and most people will use it by default. That will continue for the foreseeable future. Your own data source agrees with that statement. But I suppose you now disagree with your own source...:banghead:

I won’t post in reply to you after this. I will let you have the last word, as that is what you truly want. We all bow down before your uncontestable knowledge. :bowdown::bowdown:

Enjoy your day. I will most assuredly enjoy the rest of mine.

 

[SteveMac]

I decided to try Chrome before going back to IE9. However, I found Chrome to be much quicker on the internet when going from one site to another and even within a site, which was actually the way it was even prior to IE10.:dontknow:

I am very happy it all worked out for you. And I apologize that your thread degraded because of me. You will be very happy using Chrome as your browser of choice.

 

[SteveMac]

pro10is,


I'm sorry my friend, I do intend to be antagonistic. You are thinking crazy if you think that IE is on it's way out. I've been
a professional developer for years and keep up with all of the current standards and do make my applications compatible with
IE, Chrome, and Firefox however I only support back to IE 7 which is well enough. Now while working for an international aviation company
I figured out real quick that some of the largest aviation manufacturers would only support IE6 and no further do to the fact that they had
custom software that has worked just fine for years and can only run on IE6. If they were to jump up to chrome or IE10 then that would cost
millions of dollars and probably years of development. So with that being said, I'm pretty sure that you have never work in a professional
enterprise setting and truly don't understand how large corporations run and have to stay on older systems for now. One final note if IE was going out
then why in the hell are they now going to support WebGL and HTML5(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/bg182636(v=vs.85).aspx). I would guess
because they are going to shut it down.

-- DarkDuck

Laughing out loud here. :roflblack:

I re-read the thread and saw where you came on to post. I sent you the link only so you could tell me if I was off my rocker after our previous discussions.

Thanks my friend, but I can handle this! For the most part we have a very friendly board here and while I appreciate the sentiment, just resist the urge.

If you jump on here only to defend me, then you will be charged with TROLLISM! And rightfully so. :lecturef_smilie: I'll ask the Admin to ban you myself!

 

[pro10is]

pro10is,


I'm sorry my friend, I do intend to be antagonistic. You are thinking crazy if you think that IE is on it's way out. I've been
a professional developer for years and keep up with all of the current standards and do make my applications compatible with
IE, Chrome, and Firefox however I only support back to IE 7 which is well enough. Now while working for an international aviation company
I figured out real quick that some of the largest aviation manufacturers would only support IE6 and no further do to the fact that they had
custom software that has worked just fine for years and can only run on IE6. If they were to jump up to chrome or IE10 then that would cost
millions of dollars and probably years of development. So with that being said, I'm pretty sure that you have never work in a professional
enterprise setting and truly don't understand how large corporations run and have to stay on older systems for now. One final note if IE was going out
then why in the hell are they now going to support WebGL and HTML5(http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/bg182636(v=vs.85).aspx). I would guess
because they are going to shut it down.

-- DarkDuck

Wow, another severe case of denial (or with only one post here you may be just a troll) but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. IE is in fact on its way out - believe it. You don't need to take my word for it just take off your blinders and do your homework. Firefox and Chrome have already surpassed it and are gaining more steam every day. I give IE five more years tops unless Microsoft changes their ways. Oh, IE is not going away entirely, Microsoft won't let it, and it's a job to install Windows without it or even uninstall it entirely. It's just that so many people and businesses are no longer selecting it as their standard working browser. So it's well on its way to the insignificant software dump heap like Lotus 123, Wordperfect, OS2, Netscape Navigator, et al. Remember those? They're still around too, but no one cares. Lotus 123 was once -the- standard spreadsheet software and no one thought that would ever change. If Microsoft joins the rest of the world and finally embraces Web standards they could actually resurrect IE but that isn't likely. Microsoft still believes they can set their own web standards for the world, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and seems willing to bet the farm on it. They are giving in a little though, IE 10 sits halfway between the Microsoft standards and the Web standards, and as we've already seen, it handles neither very well.

Yes there are indeed plenty of sad, old applications and websites out there that still require IE and if they are of any importance they should be viable candidates for porting. Just imagine how difficult life is going to become for the unfortunate people and businesses who still need or cling to those applications. They'll have to keep a copies of IE 6, 7, 8, and/or 9 around for years while Windows Update constantly nags them to update to IE 10, 11 or 12. So even if IE hangs around in the corner for many years, even IE won't be compatible with the applications you mention. How sad is that? Unfortunately this is not even precedence setting, there are many, many such applications still around and in use, some still require FORTRAN or COBOL. That doesn't mean FORTRAN and COBOL are not obsolete dinosaurs.

I really got a good laugh when you said you were sure I that I have never worked in a professional enterprise setting and truly don't understand how large corporations run. Dude, I've worked for over 35 years for one of the the largest, oldest, and most respected IT Top Ten Fortune 500 companies in the world and I'm currently an Advisory Software Engineer there. So much for your keen instincts. It's standard business procedure for corporations to invest vast amounts of time and not only millions but billions of dollars in software development if they care about their business. In fact it never stops, ever. In this day and age any company that doesn't invest wisely in IT development severely risks being technologically obsolete.

In another post today someone mentioned a favorite philosopher of mine, Arthur Schopenhauer. He said:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

So true.

 

[pro10is]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


Wow. I don’t even know where to begin.

You assert that I keep coming at you, when you first quoted me.:dontknow:...Uh Yeah.

I guess since I didn’t just immediately cower down and let you have the last word, then that classifies me as coming at you. So be it. I’m sorry you feel that way. You can have the last word after this.

I have agreed with you on several occasions that Chrome is a better browser. So I am not trying to steer anyone into antiquated technology. I was simply trying to help Wyliec with a browsing solution. God, I wish that I hadn’t now.

As for me “doing all this research”...
Yep. I did a Google search (ironic) for “Browser Usage Statistics”. Probably the exact same search you did. Anyone here can do it as a test. The first site in the search result was the very one that you selected data from. The next two were the ones I cited. I’d say that search took about 5 minutes to compile the data, or 4.5 minutes longer than it took you.

I am sorry if I embarrassed you by pointing out your flawed data source, but you were misrepresenting the facts to enforce your point. That is totally on you and not me. You should have chosen your supporting data with more care and thought, just as you should go back and re-read this entire thread with more care and thought. You will see that we agree on what is a better browser, but we disagree on what is still being used in many industries.
WOW that is a major point of contention, and beyond me why it is even a debate. :shocked:

I am really not sure why you refuse to accept that there are still many business applications that are reliant upon older versions of IE, but there simply are. I don’t promote that, I don’t like it, but it is a fact. I can’t do anything further to help you understand that. Others above have said the same thing is true in their industry.

I have actually spoken to a friend about this very issue and I complained about our reliance on IE9 for some business applications. He works at a “major airline manufacturer” and he told me that they still have internally built web-based apps that require IE6. But, I suppose he is lying to me. Also, as I have mentioned there are many apps we use with the Federal Reserve that are only functional in older versions of IE. So, if you wouldn’t bank with us because of IE9,,,,,,,,, then I suggest you don’t fly on any airline, use any bank, oh and forgoe cash too!

You say you wouldn’t put your life savings in my bank. OK (thank goodness!).
But, as a consumer, you would have NO issue at my bank. All major browsers are supported. However, there are some cash management programs, for business customers, which are only fully functional in IE9. True at my bank and ((trust me)), true at many others.

For the life of me, I don’t know why you aren’t able to distinguish between what I am saying is the current real-world status for many businesses versus what ((I think we agree on)) you and I would both like to see in an ideal world.

You seem to think I am challenging you about which browser is best. Not so. Nor am I in “technological denial”. I have only related what I see in the working world. Shame on me. pps:

Early on in this thread, I simply stated that unfortunately IE is still the standard for many (not all) business applications.
You began this whole debate by quoting me and challenging that statement. So I countered with why I felt that was true. But somehow you have determined that I keep coming at you. :banghead:

I agree Chrome is a better browser, I don’t agree that IE is dying. I understand that you may be a hater of Microsoft, and that is cool, but I don’t agree that IE is dying. IE is still the browser that is standard on PC purchases and most people will use it by default. That will continue for the foreseeable future. Your own data source agrees with that statement. But I suppose you now disagree with your own source...:banghead:

I won’t post in reply to you after this. I will let you have the last word, as that is what you truly want. We all bow down before your uncontestable knowledge. :bowdown::bowdown:

Enjoy your day. I will most assuredly enjoy the rest of mine.

Unfortunately we've both no doubt used up all the patience of the good people of this forum on a subject that has nothing to do with motorcycles so we can't continue this discussion here or I would indeed love to counter your latest browser delusions. Now the trolls are coming so our time is up. I gave you the best advice I could but you just won't listen. You'll get no more from me. No hard feelings. Best of luck to you and your business.

 

[NancysToy]

Maybe it's time to cool off. The OP wanted a solution to his problem...not suggestions as to other computers or browsers, and I'm sure he didn't want a philosophical discussion or to start a browser war. Some things should be taken off forum. We have a PM feature that is more appropriate for private fueds. JMHO

 

[Flanker]

You can also click on settings and enable compatibility mode for all websites. Alternatively, while in IE10, hit the F12 key and select the option to run in compatibility mode or emulate IE9.

Sorry I'm not at a PC right now so I don't remember the exact steps. But this will get you in the right area.

There are LOTS of compatibility issues with IE10.

Chrome is a good option for browsing, but unfortunately, for many business or online banking applications, IE is the standard. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the heads up on the F12 key, and compatibility mode........worked for me with IE 10 and this forum! TY!

PS: Curse you Micro Soft; you Satan's spawn!! :joke:

 

[SteveMac]

Thanks for the heads up on the F12 key, and compatibility mode........worked for me with IE 10 and this forum! TY!

You're very welcome. Glad it helped.

 

[pro10is]

Maybe it's time to cool off. The OP wanted a solution to his problem...not suggestions as to other computers or browsers, and I'm sure he didn't want a philosophical discussion or to start a browser war. Some things should be taken off forum. We have a PM feature that is more appropriate for private fueds. JMHO

OP's don't always get what they asked for and posts often take on a life of their own, you know that and you yourself have been involved in such discussions, many of us have. It just means you have an opinion you want to share. It's not a bad thing even when discussions get a bit heated. They serve to entertain, add a touch of drama and humanity, and quite often to educate. Passion in what you believe in is a necessary part of life and will always be a factor in worthwhile discussions. We all can't all agree on everything and it would be a very boring and bland forum if we did.

Whoops, more philosophy. Sorry OP. :roflblack:

 

[SteveMac]

Maybe it's time to cool off. The OP wanted a solution to his problem...not suggestions as to other computers or browsers, and I'm sure he didn't want a philosophical discussion or to start a browser war. Some things should be taken off forum. We have a PM feature that is more appropriate for private fueds. JMHO

Yep Scotty. I agree. And I apologized to the OP earlier for my part. This was a total failure of communication and I should have given up long ago.

 

[pro10is]

Yep Scotty. I agree. And I apologized to the OP earlier for my part. This was a total failure of communication and I should have given up long ago.

You shouldn't apologize to anyone, and I for one was glad you didn't give up. You put up a good fight, made some good points, and hung in there when challenged. I may not have agreed with you but I respected you for that and appreciated your intellect and passion. You also offered a unique point of view, expanded the discussion, enlightened people on the difficulties of running a competitive businesses in the high tech world, and everyone had the opportunity to learn more because of it including the OP.

Well done, despite what anyone else might think. :thumbup:

 

[spyder3]

I am very happy it all worked out for you. And I apologize that your thread degraded because of me. You will be very happy using Chrome as your browser of choice.

thread hijacker:lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: