Mobil 1 racing 4T oil in the Spyder!!!!

[BLACK WIDOW]

Oil

:agree: with Scotty.

Don't read this if you are susceptible to migraines! :yikes:

Oil can be as simple, or as complicated as you want to make it. It doesn't have to give you a headache, but it can.

The oil we get in a can isn't what the Arab's send us in barrels. First, Chemical engineers play all kinds of games with it.

Then the marketing people get involved.

Clueless said in a previous post; "after the oil heats up you either 5W40 or 10W40 is the SAME weight running at SAE40 weight at operating temp so again no difference. So its a WIN WIN to use 5W40 over 10W40. all things being equal."

And, in a perfect world, and all things being equal, this would be a correct statement. But, unfortunatly, it isn't a perfect world, and all things are certainly not equal. If you dig deeper into oil testing you'll find viscosities can be all over the map and nowhere near what the label on the bottle states even after only a few hundred miles.

That article from Clueless is a good one, but the part about 40 weight being 40 weight is more intended theory than reality (as you'll see if you read further down).

It would be nice if it were that easy. And honestly, it should be. But honesty is part of the problem. You have to understand, the job of the oil manufactures is not to make oil, it is to SELL oil, and in doing so, make a profit. Bigger profit is better.

If you read down a little further in the excellent article posted by Clueless, you'll find that synthetic is not necessarily synthetic. In fact, the United States is the only country in the world that allows Group III based oils to be marketed as 'Full Synthetic' (which they are not).

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the only Group IV based oils (True Synthetic) that I know of (thought it's been sometime since I checked this).

Group IV is a more expensive base than Group III. And if you can sell the cheaper Group III as Synthetic (and make more money) then....

Group III based oils must have the same modifiers to get multiple viscosities as do so called Dyno oils. The greater the spread between numbers, the more modifiers are needed. These modifiers tend to break down, especially when you add a transmission to the equation.

As they break down, so does your effective viscosity and protection.

Group IV based oils do not need these modifiers so they maintain original specs much longer.

That is why, in my opinion, it is a shame to pass over a great product like Amsoil, or Mobil 1 for that matter, because of a 5w/10w difference. But, of course, this is just my opinion and it's always worth what it costs.

I am not saying that everyone should rush out and get Amsoil or Mobil 1. Or that other oils used by Spyder owners aren't going a great job. But knowing as much as you can will always lead you to the best choice for what you are trying to accomplish.

You are right on, my friend!!:doorag:

 

[IWN2RYD]

Man a lot of great info...

I hope we get even more and someone can answer the multiple rating question for us...:thumbup:

 

[BajaRon]

from Page 22 = "Motul and Royal Purple meet the JASO MA specification"

Meets BajaRon requirement = CHECK :doorag:


the rest of most of the oil websites including the one I posted if from is AMSOL marketing cr$p. like BajaRon said they (in this case AMSOL) can spin it to make their best features (i.e. what they test) as listed in their report and bury what they suck at by not showing that graph or chart.

I don't have any requirements, other than personal! hyea:

 

[Campverdefela]

Here is an oil that is Truly Synthetic rating in multiple countries. Made in France.

Motul 300V 4T

http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/4stroke09.html

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SAE/DOT Standard[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5W40[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Specification[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]API SL & JASO MA[/FONT]

Weight meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

Specs meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

:clap:


(disclaimer) I do not work for an oil company, marketing company, nor a supplier for any brand of oil. I am not a FanBoy of one brand or another ... LOL

I do like Mobile 1 V-TWIN oil for my Harley and I run Mobile 1 Gear Oil in the Transmission of my Harley Fatboy.

Just they do not make 5W40 and now their rating has changed.

:agree:Thats what I use, also the only double ester oil on the market.

 

[BajaRon]

Man a lot of great info...

I hope we get even more and someone can answer the multiple rating question for us...:thumbup:

As I said, the job of oil companies is to SELL as much oil as they can. These days, many brands are actually the same exact oil in a different container (and with different pricing depending on how good their marketing program is).

This can be amusing as someone will swear by brand X and say brand Y sucks. And they are identical except for the container, which you throw away. The marketing guys must be laughing all the way to the bank!

As for multiple ratings. Again, the idea is to SELL. The customer comes in, looks for the recommended rating on the bottle. If he sees it he buys, if he doesn't he moves on to another brand.

The more hooks in the water, the better chance of catching fish!

So, what to do about the SM rating and wet clutch applications? To me it's an easy solution because there is another rating specifically designed to test wet clutch slippage. If you don't get clutch slippage, what difference does the SM rating mean to us? (Other than the warranty thing which to me is bogus unless you're using a non-recommended oil which I understand brings us back full circle).

But here is where I choose to get off this bus! hyea:

The JASO rating tells you (basically) if your clutch will silp or not, regardless of any other rating listed on the bottle.

The MA2 JASO rating is the best, (most clutch friction, least slippage). Next comes MA (some list it as MA1, same thing). A little less clutch friction and a little more chance for slippage. And you want to stay clear of oils with a wet clutch rating of MB. You will very likely get slippage with the MB rated oils.

So, if the oil is MA or MA2 rated, who cares if it is also SM rated? That just means they have found a way to chemically engineer the oil to meet the SM standard without a negative impact to wet clutch applications.

Few oils have the MA2 rating. There are more with the MA rating. But here again, there is a range of slippage allowed to qualify for the MA rating. So just because your oil is MA rated does not necessarily mean it provides the same wet clutch performance as another MA rated oil. And some oils are labeled MA but don't actually meet the requirement in testing. :gaah:

So, take two asprin and call me in the morning! :roflblack:

 

[IWN2RYD]

As I said, the job of oil companies is to SELL as much oil as they can. Totally understand that



So, what to do about the SM rating and wet clutch applications? To me it's an easy solution because there is another rating specifically designed to test wet clutch slippage. If you don't get clutch slippage, what difference does the SM rating mean to us? (Other than the warranty thing which to me is bogus unless you're using a non-recommended oil which I understand brings us back full circle). Exactly!!! hahahahaha :roflblack:

But here is where I choose to get off this bus! hyea: Please do not go! We need you!! ray:

The JASO rating tells you (basically) if your clutch will silp or not, regardless of any other rating listed on the bottle. Ok.. this is where the rubber meets the road. Phew!!! So the oil I am using will be just fine... Or even the Mobil 1 or Motul (That I use in every offload ride I have had the past five years ish)



So, if the oil is MA or MA2 rated, who cares if it is also SM rated? That just means they have found a way to chemically engineer the oil to meet the SM standard without a negative impact to wet clutch applications. Check :thumbup:

Few oils have the MA2 rating. There are more with the MA rating. But here again, there is a range of slippage allowed to qualify for the MA rating. So just because your oil is MA rated does not necessarily mean it provides the same wet clutch performance as another MA rated oil. And some oils are labeled MA but don't actually meet the requirement in testing. :gaah: Good Lord... Not another circle!!!! :gaah::gaah::gaah:

So, take two asprin and call me in the morning! :roflblack:.... I will add one shot of my favorite Rum and call it a day.... lol

Thank you!

 

[IWN2RYD]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390

Oh man I completely missed this post.. Ok.. I am selling off the newer T6 and just start over on the 2011...

 

[NancysToy]

Here's another to throw in the mix-

CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance
SPECIFICATIONS

• API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
• JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
• VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544

:agree: I would love to use this oil, but the only way I can get it is mail-order, which I am reluctant to do. The dealers don't carry it here, and they say they can't order it. Apparently the area distributor doesn't stock it.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Please take this with a grain of salt...

I just got off the phone with a BRP Rep in Canada. He was very helpful and informative.

As was my dealer of choice Clem's in Enumclaw...

As a personal decision based off of all this information. I will only be buying BRP's version and call it a day.

Scotty and I think a lot alike when it comes to warranties and I will just leave it there.

If this was a $6000-12,000 bike.... well I may not care and would just use my Motul stash. But these are not even close to that price category and I will run BRP oils till the B.E.S.T. runs out and the landscape is easier to maneuver through (Yeah right, but I can hope right! :clap

I greatly appreciate all of the input offered up by all the members and for the OP starting this thread. Otherwise I would have started off with our new 2011 on the wrong foot... nojoke:spyder2::doorag:

 

[clueless]

Here's another to throw in the mix-
CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance Castrol Power RS Racing with Trizone Technology is a full synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil designed to ensure maximum power and performance, even under the most demanding riding conditions. Its anti-friction formulation is proven to increase acceleration compared to conventional motorcycle oils.

BENEFITS

• Full synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil
• Race derived technology for maximum engine acceleration
• Extreme high temperature air-cooled and water-cooled engine performance
• Excellent shear stability to prevent viscosity breakdown

SPECIFICATIONS

• API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
• JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
• VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544

This was the other Oil I looked at. my dealer actually stocks this stuff...

As a personal decision based off of all this information. I will only be buying BRP's version and call it a day.

Scotty and I think a lot alike when it comes to warranties and I will just leave it there.

I greatly appreciate all of the input offered up by all the members and for the OP starting this thread. Otherwise I would have started off with our new 2011 on the wrong foot... nojoke:spyder2::doorag:

Hey if you lived closer to me I would offer to buy your Motul if its 5W40 .... but you can not go wrong with the BRP. just not sure why they went with the summer SEMI SYNTH other then to make a less expensive oil. I would stick with the GOLD Full Synth.

but without any ratings or weight on their oil bottle it is hard to compare to the others. I feel that the Castrol mentioned above or the Motul 300V 4T (both full synth) is better then the BRP.

The easy way for warranty coverage is stick with BRP. I can easily justify if it comes to it with Motul 300V 4T as it meets all their requirements in the Shop Manual and the owners Manual.

 

[BajaRon]

Originally Posted by HDXBONES
Here's another to throw in the mix-

CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance



SPECIFICATIONS

• API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
• JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
• VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7040544

:agree: I would love to use this oil, but the only way I can get it is mail-order, which I am reluctant to do. The dealers don't carry it here, and they say they can't order it. Apparently the area distributor doesn't stock it.

That oil looks very good to me too. Next time I'm out I will see if we have it around here. Not that I'm unhappy with Amsoil, but you never know when you'll need an ace in the hole!

I do know that Castrol cheats on some of their 'Synthetic' oils in the US. But it looks like this one is a true syhthetic. I've always liked Castrol products.

 

[retired1]

I just got back from my dealers Christmas party. His BRP oil arrives on Castrol pallets.

 

[BajaRon]

I just got back from my dealers Christmas party. His BRP oil arrives on Castrol pallets.

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.

 

[SpyderWolf]

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.

Ding, ding, ding. That is the correct answer all the way around. I too have seen the Castrol pallets with the BRP cases on them. I currently have Mobil 1 in our Spyders, but would be happy to try the Castrol Power RS oil if I can find it. :thumbup:

 

[Lamonster]

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82915504&contentId=7040371

 

[BajaRon]

Is this what people are using?



I can't find any specs on this product. I can't see any viscosity numbers on the container.

I can't find anywere on the BRP site that says this oil is 5w/40. They just say it is recommended for the Spyder.

Some retailers say it is 5w/40. But I'm wondering if they say that because BRP recommends 5w/40 and they just assume that is what this is.

Are there specs on the back of the container?

 

[JJW SpyderRider]

Is this what people are using?



I can't find any specs on this product. I can't see any viscosity numbers on the container.

I can't find anywere on the BRP site that says this oil is 5w/40. They just say it is recommended for the Spyder.

Some retailers say it is 5w/40. But I'm wondering if they say that because BRP recommends 5w/40 and they just assume that is what this is.

Are there specs on the back of the container?

Looking at the bottle I have it does not have any specs even on the back as you suspected. It only states it good for the BRP :spyder2:.

 

[Lamonster]

XPS
X‑tra Protection
(Part Synthetic)? :dontknow:

 

[BajaRon]

XPS
X‑tra Protection
(Part Synthetic)? :dontknow:

EXACTLY!

BINGO!

You Nailed it right on the head! Exactly where I was going!

And Guess What! That is a 10w/40 oil, bet your bottom dollar on it! And that, my friends, explains why there is no viscosity rating on that BRP bottle.

The Castol runs around $5 a quart in quart or gallon sizes.

From what I've been able to find, you'll pay about twice as much a quart for the BRP oil.

If this theory holds, you're paying about $5 for the oil and $5 for the BRP bottle. You could do the same thing by getting the Castol and just throwing a $5 bill in the trash everytime you put a quart in.

Just food for thought.....

 

[Roadkill]

... I looked at Amsoil and it looked like this same dilemma is there as well. They qualify for numerous ratings.

+The AMSOIL motorcycle oils (all pure synthetics manufactured right here in the USA) are NOT SM rated. There is no AMSOIL dilemma, and they're perfectly suited for a wet clutch environment.

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10319.JPG