VSS DPS ABS Limp mode after hard braking

[RShrimp]

Well, It happened to me today.
I had to brake kind of hard (not hard enough to get ABS working but hard) and as soon as I did I got the DPS VSS ABS Lights on the dash and Limp Mode and the scrolling message.

Once I cycled the key it went back to normal but I am fully able to reproduce the problem simply by do a fairly quick stop. Again, not enough to kick in the ABS but a fast stop.

Something is wrong with the brakes. I can "feel" a slight change in the pedal from before. It is a very slight change but I am pretty perceptive in this area. It also feels like you can pump it up and get a bit higher pedal.
Not enough miles for anything to be worn out.

Darn it ... and it just got nice ont here this week too.

Looks like its off to the dealer on Tuesday (unless someone has an idea)

 

[Magic Man]

Well, It happened to me today.
I had to brake kind of hard (not hard enough to get ABS working but hard) and as soon as I did I got the DPS VSS ABS Lights on the dash and Limp Mode and the scrolling message.

Once I cycled the key it went back to normal but I am fully able to reproduce the problem simply by do a fairly quick stop. Again, not enough to kick in the ABS but a fast stop.

Something is wrong with the brakes. I can "feel" a slight change in the pedal from before. It is a very slight change but I am pretty perceptive in this area. It also feels like you can pump it up and get a bit higher pedal.
Not enough miles for anything to be worn out.

Darn it ... and it just got nice ont here this week too.

Looks like its off to the dealer on Tuesday (unless someone has an idea)

No way to know for sure... :dontknow:

But, it sounds like you might have gotton air into the system and the air is making the low brake system pressure while braking sensor trip the codes. That can also why the brakes "pump up" with several strokes of the pedel.

Whenever there is a brake system "failure" or problem all these codes come up as the VSS system uses the brake system to perform many of it's functions. Any brake system problem and the whole code/limp home mode nightmare begins. :shocked:

Lucky this is a system test that resets after a key cycle and does not show up again until the low brake system pressure while actually on the brakes is sensed again. It does go out of limp mode after a key cycle and in theory you could drive it to the dealer. But if at all possiable you might want to trailer it there rather than risk your safety driving a bike with brake system trouble.

You are 100% right in taking it to the dealer to have it checked out and or the system bled if that turns out to be the cause. If it's not this and something bigger that you will be glad you had it checked out for sure. :thumbup:

MM

 

[Way2Fast]

Seems that perhaps you have moisture in the brake fluid. BRP's $$ conscience fix for a badly designed master cylinder had been to cut a "vent" in the rubber diaphram inside the master cylinder, exposing the fluid to the outside atmosphere. Hydraulic fluid is quick to absorb moisture from the air, especially in humid conditions (like in FL) making it contaminated. That's why BRP now recommends the brake fluid be changed frequently.

 

[spyryder]

Seems that perhaps you have moisture in the brake fluid. BRP's $$ conscience fix for a badly designed master cylinder had been to cut a "vent" in the rubber diaphram inside the master cylinder, exposing the fluid to the outside atmosphere. Hydraulic fluid is quick to absorb moisture from the air, especially in humid conditions (like in FL) making it contaminated. That's why BRP now recommends the brake fluid be changed frequently.

Master cylinder caps need to be vented to keep pressure equalized above the fluid in the reservoir so as not to create a vacuum. This has been discussed at length previously....you should know better by now Richard.:lecturef_smilie:

 

[j45p3r]

Master cylinder caps need to be vented to keep pressure equalized above the fluid in the reservoir so as not to create a vacuum. This has been discussed at length previously....you should know better by now Richard.:lecturef_smilie:

There are better ways to do this than what BRP has done though. On my GMC the underside of the cap has a thin rubber piece that is pulled down into the reservoir as the fluid lowers. This allows the volume of the space above the fluid to remain constant so as not to cause a vacuum without letting in air from the outside.

 

[spyryder]

There are better ways to do this than what BRP has done though. On my GMC the underside of the cap has a thin rubber piece that is pulled down into the reservoir as the fluid lowers. This allows the volume of the space above the fluid to remain constant so as not to cause a vacuum without letting in air from the outside.

I guarantee you that upon close inspection you'll find a slit cut into your reservoir diaphragm just as in my Chrysler 300 as well as the Spyder. It's common for brake systems to incorporate this.

 

[xpeschon]

Wow--Have you tried to pull a code of your display to see if by chance there is a code in there?? If not there is a sequence you have to go through in order to do this,, Here it is if you don't know how: Hold up,, This works on 08 and 09 models not sure what you have and even if this works on 2010 but anyway if you have a 08 or 09 this should work..

1) turn the power on and start your spyder.
2) using the mode button, press the button until total hours are displayed, again this is TOTAL HOURS and not trip hours
3) Holding the mode button done flash your high beam 3 times FAST.

If there are any fault codes in the computer they will now be displayed across the cluster otherwise,, there will be a statement that says "No Active Fault Codes"

NOTE: Its kind of tricky and you may have to do it several times in order to HIT the computer just right so to say.. Good luck--keep us posted Please..

Joe

 

[Magic Man]

There are better ways to do this than what BRP has done though. On my GMC the underside of the cap has a thin rubber piece that is pulled down into the reservoir as the fluid lowers. This allows the volume of the space above the fluid to remain constant so as not to cause a vacuum without letting in air from the outside.

BRP had that type of diaphragm on the orginal cap.

Only problem was, as the fluid level dropped it was drawn down into the master cylinder reservoir and hit and pushed down on the fluid level float in the reservoir. As this happened it made the warning light for low brake fluid level come falsely. :gaah:

Our current cap gaskets is their 10 cent fix to an expensive problem (redesign the reservoir and pay warranty time to have it replaced and the systems bled out)

This new cap gasket has a "V" cut into it thereby allowing air and ALSO MOSTURE into the system as the fluid level drops due to normal brake pad wear.

Brake fluid is a natural desiccant and it will absorb moisture from the air. As the moisture level in the brake fluid rises, it's boiling point also lowers, and it's corrosiveness rises as well.

Too low a boiling point and the heat produced from braking can actually cause this water laden fluid to boil and induce "air" into the system, thereby causing a hoist of braking problems.

Hence the reason it now became our problem/expense to have to flush and change our brake fluid so much more often.

MM

 

[NancysToy]

Start with the easy stuff, first. The Spyder is very sensitive to brake fluid level. Even when it looks OK, it can trigger failure codes, especially in a hard stop. As the pads wear, the fluid level gets lower. Make sure the master cylinder is fully topped off. If you continue to have the problem, see your dealer ASAP. There can be other, dangerous causes.

A brake failure will trigger an immediate limp mode, and will also cause all associated systems to exhibit failure codes, hence the cascading fault codes. The brakes are tied into the VSS, so a brake failure also triggers that fault, which triggers a DPS fault, etc. Failed sensors can do the same. The root problem is usually simpler than it looks.

The master cylinder vent cap problem was limited to the first few Spyders produced in 2007, and was subject to a recall action. If you have one of those Spyders, you should have received a recall letter. If you have one and had service done at a dealer, they would have automatically have performed the recall when it was serviced. It is not something most owners should worry about.

 

[groundeffect]

This new cap gasket has a "V" cut into it thereby allowing air and ALSO MOSTURE into the system as the fluid level drops due to normal brake pad wear.

Is this in all (even 2010) models, or has the design been changed on newer models?:dontknow:


Thanks

 

[spyryder]

Is this in all (even 2010) models, or has the design been changed on newer models?:dontknow:


Thanks

Pretty much ALL automotive brake systems are vented....that's why fluid is supposed to be changed periodically, to remove the accumulated moisture.

 

[j45p3r]

I guarantee you that upon close inspection you'll find a slit cut into your reservoir diaphragm just as in my Chrysler 300 as well as the Spyder. It's common for brake systems to incorporate this.

Just ran out and looked and it does not have a slit.

 

[zr97]

Faced similar thing...found out one of fuses at the front box just burn out...agreed with scotty...check the basic thing first...hope it solve your problem

 

[groundeffect]

Pretty much ALL automotive brake systems are vented....that's why fluid is supposed to be changed periodically, to remove the accumulated moisture.

As I understand it, brake fluid lasts at least a year, perhaps more, before it requires to be changed (lines and reservoir bleed and refilled).

How ofter does the Spyder brake fluid have to be changed out?

Thank you

 

[spyryder]

As I understand it, brake fluid lasts at least a year, perhaps more, before it requires to be changed (lines and reservoir bleed and refilled).

How ofter does the Spyder brake fluid have to be changed out?

Thank you

I believe the manual states every 12,000 miles or 2 years......BTW, the time interval is similar to other vehicles.

 

[groundeffect]

I believe the manual states every 12,000 miles or 2 years......BTW, the time interval is similar to other vehicles.

Thank you... that's no so bad.

 

[spyryder]

Just ran out and looked and it does not have a slit.

Hmmmm, It may be hard to see without stretching the material a bit? Here's a few pics I took....one of my Chrysler and also my Spyder. Notice the "V" shaped slit on the Spyder diaphragm along with the smaller one identical to the one from my car. Those diaphragms could actually be exchaged with each other!

 

[Magic Man]

I believe the manual states every 12,000 miles or 2 years......BTW, the time interval is similar to other vehicles.

The manual had that interval written in it before there was the recall and a hole was then put into the seal design to the outside air.

If you live where it is wet or very humid I would say do it much more often.

MM

 

[spyryder]

The manual had that interval written in it before there was the recall and a hole was then put into the seal design to the outside air.

If you live where it is wet or very humid I would say do it much more often.

MM

Well we're 2 years down the road and the new RT has the same recommendation.:f_spider:

 

[NancysToy]

The manual had that interval written in it before there was the recall and a hole was then put into the seal design to the outside air.

If you live where it is wet or very humid I would say do it much more often.

MM

The maintenance chart was revised since then, and a new one issued as a service bulletin. If they wanted to change the interval, they could have done so then. If you worry a great deal about moisture, and live someplace humid, you may want to increase the interval, but I would not worry about it myself. All brake systems are vented, and are exposed to moisture to a small extent.