• There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.

Brake pedal is firm on starting, soft after moving - dealer says it's OK! Anyone else?

bikerlady

New member
I have a 2018 Spyder RT SM6 that has a issue with the brakes. My pedal is firm upon starting and after I have moved about 50 ft the pedal is soft and it slows slowly. If I touch the brake again I have a full hard pedal.
I have replaced the pads on all 3 wheels and bled the system including the VCM several times. No fix. I replaced the master cylinder seeing a small amount of moisture on the boot. Still nothing. Took to the dealer and they did the BUDS system. Said it was ok. Everything was within spec. Not fixed. Returned and they replaced the VCM. Still not fixed. I am going back to see if they can finally find the problem but I would like to know if anyone else has had this issue.
 
IMO you have a dealership that doesn't know what they're doing. How did you bed in the new brake pads?Did you do a succession of high speed panic slowings? When they bled the brake system, did they bleed the ABS module? Politely tell them to call and open a case with BRP and find out what's going wrong.
 
How old is the brake fluid? Did you bleed some out and measure the moisture content? Perhaps it needs a complete fluid flush from master cylinder to front and rear calipers? I had a Jaguar XF that did the same. The fluid looked OK in the master cylinder, but the fluid deep in the lines was too high a moisture level having been pumped down from the master cylinder over time. All the seals were good at the calipers and the master cylinder, it was just aging fluid. Once it was all flushed out to new fluid it was all just fine. I bought the car from a humid southern state and I didn't expect it to be an issue as it's really desert dry here and I'm used to brake fluid seeming to last much longer. The fluid was four years old but it measured like it was double that. I changed the fluid as a last resort after trying all kinds of things relating to ABS pumps and what do you know, it fixed it.
 
How old is the brake fluid? Did you bleed some out and measure the moisture content? Perhaps it needs a complete fluid flush from master cylinder to front and rear calipers? I had a Jaguar XF that did the same. The fluid looked OK in the master cylinder, but the fluid deep in the lines was too high a moisture level having been pumped down from the master cylinder over time. All the seals were good at the calipers and the master cylinder, it was just aging fluid. Once it was all flushed out to new fluid it was all just fine. I bought the car from a humid southern state and I didn't expect it to be an issue as it's really desert dry here and I'm used to brake fluid seeming to last much longer. The fluid was four years old but it measured like it was double that. I changed the fluid as a last resort after trying all kinds of things relating to ABS pumps and what do you know, it fixed it.
Per OP "I have replaced the pads on all 3 wheels and bled the system including the VCM several times".
 
Bled, but was it a full flush through to clear? That was the mistake I made with the Jag. I bled the air at the calipers and exercised the ABS pump but it still had tired fluid in the lines. It didn't take much to feel weird like the OP described.
 
Bled, but was it a full flush through to clear? That was the mistake I made with the Jag. I bled the air at the calipers and exercised the ABS pump but it still had tired fluid in the lines. It didn't take much to feel weird like the OP described.
Good point.
 
Good point.
Thinking of it, if they replaced the VCM I'm sure they must have put new fluid into it.

Perhaps the only thing left is the ABS hydraulic modulator unit itself which is what actually controls the brake pressure in the lines, under control from the VCM?

The BUDS testing should have exercised that unit when they replaced the VCM, but if the problem is intermittent?
 
My thoughts on this Soft Brakes issue.

I don't believe that all of the 'old' fluid was completely flushed out. Hopefully they used 'new' Brake Fluid. Also it must be the correct type of Brake Fluid.

Why? Well folks, there are several different types of Brake Fluid. I happen to know from experience. Someone needs to redo the Fluid Flush again.
I think this is the real fix.

That's what I would do. Or have a service tech do the job.

The ball is in your court. Good Luck on Your Mission. (y)
 
The OP states that he 'bled' the system including the VCM several times'. You cannot bleed the VCM without BUDS, so I'm wondering if that was actually a meaningful process for him, since he then states, 'Took to the dealer and they did the BUDS system', which makes it sound like adding BUDS was a new step in the process.

Though all of this is a moot point since the VCM and master cylinder were both replaced by the dealership. No respectable mechanic would do this without a full system flush.

Assuming that all of the listed steps have been done correctly, and if the OP’s input is accurate, I am surprised that the dealership said things are ‘OK’. Only 2 possibilities here, in my opinion.
  • The system is, indeed, OK.
  • Or, it isn’t OK, but the technician is out of ideas.
I would ask if this issue began immediately after the brake pad replacement, or has it been building over time? Was the adjuster particularly difficult to turn in when you replaced the pads? Was the adjuster found to be outside of the threads and disconnected from the caliper during the pad replacement?

At this point, my first inclination would be to look at the rear brake caliper. After getting the soft pedal, reset the parking brake, give it a second to seat fully, then try again. If the hard then soft pedal scenario repeats itself, it could very well indicate that something is up with the rear caliper. The self-adjusting threaded piston may have been damaged or somehow become stuck during the brake pad replacement process. As your pads wear, (fastest wear is during the first few hundred miles) if the self-adjuster doesn't keep up, the gap between the pads and rotor will increase.

Setting and releasing the parking brake leaves the rear pads up against the rotor as they should be, but after moving, the piston will retract to its base position. If all is working well, there isn't any appreciable difference between the two. But if the self-adjusting piston is not functioning properly and retracts too far, an excessive gap is created. Brake pedal travel is increased and braking function is reduced. It really doesn't take much.

A 2nd cause could involve a problem with the rear wheel. If it were not reinstalled correctly, or if the wheel bearings are going bad, or if the bearings have lost their tightly pressed fit to the hub, this can create enough slop (it doesn’t take much) to give you this issue. This can be verified by raising the rear wheel and forcefully attempting to move it left to right. There should be no movement or feeling of any slack in the system. You should remove the drive belt to release all tension on the rear wheel which could hide what you are looking for.

I hope this helps....
 
Last edited:
Back
Top